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WinCustomize: What happens next

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WinCustomize: What happens next

The plan for WinCustomize's future

from WinCustomize Forums

Overall Philosophy

WinCustomize.com is a website whose goals are to promote a skinning community as well as help support content being created and shared that is for use with Stardock's software. Over the years, WinCustomize.com's popularity has grown immensely.  By October of 2005, it had reached a staggering 25 million monthly visitors.  Because the site focuses largely on the downloading of skins, themes, icons, and wallpapers, the bandwidth expenses for the site are enormous.  In addition, as the site has tried to sustain a feeling of community as opposed to being merely a glorified FTP site, the expense in running the site has grown due to the need to bring in and coordinate increasing numbers of file, SQL, and scripting servers. 

In its present state, Stardock pays for the cost of WinCustomize that isn't covered by advertising revenue and WinCustomize subscriptions.  WinCustomize is a very valuable asset of Stardock and the community that it supports means a lot to the the people who work at Stardock.  Stardock is a privately held company so its motivations are not necessarily driven by maximizing profit (in other words, making money isn't the only goal).

However, while WinCustomize's importance to Stardock is immense, it is not infinite.  Simply put, the cost of running WinCustomize has outstripped Stardock's ability to sustain it.  Of the 25 million visitors each month, over 3 million of them are "unique" (i.e. different people).  Obviously, most of those users aren't Stardock customers in any form.  To make WinCustomize viable, the model under which is operates needs to evolve.  It is clear that a subscription drive isn't going to be enough.  The October subscription drive managed to bring in less than 1,000 people -- many of whom were existing subscribers who re-subscribed.  In essence, of a website that gets over 3 million different people visiting, it would seem that our "hard core" community of users is probably less (guessing) than a few thousand.  In other words, the "community" of users is still relatively small which isn't necessarily all bad.

Over the coming months, users will see a gradual evolution of the site designed to increase revenue coming into the site.  Most of the effort will come from increasing advertising revenue. The rest will come from encouraging subscriptions and providing financial rewards to skin authors.

Users who have Object Desktop will become distinct from users who have simply purchased a product.  Object Desktop users will not have full WinCustomize subscription status but they will have unlimited downloads.  Those who have purchased a given product (such as WindowBlinds or IconPackager) will have unlimited downloads in their corresponding product but not in other areas.  The biggest change an Object Desktop user will see is that some skins will be marked as subscriber-only for the first 30 days and those skins will be part of the normal gallery.  Otherwise, things will be essentially the same.

The biggest changes for users who haven't purchased is that the site will have a lot more advertising on it and there will be a much greater push for users to create an account.

User Classes

Classes of users:

0: People who do not have accounts.

1: People who have created an account but have no subscription and have not purchased a product. Accounts are free to create.

2: People who have purchased a product or subscription in the past but are currently not active customers

3: People who are active customers (purchased a product in the past year).

4: People who have an active Object Desktop account.

5: People who have a WinCustomize Platinum Subscription.

Users with Apprentice Access to Master Apprentice will have the equivalent of Group 4.  Users with Journeyman access on up will have the equivalent of group 5. Users with Contributor access will have the equivalent of Group 2.

Access Privileges:

Group 0 users will not be able to download skins and themes that are 0 days old.  They will only be able to download 10 megabytes of other skins & themes.  The number of ads they see will be akin to what people see on other sites -- in other words quite a bit.  They will be designed to bypass the various ad-blocking programs (Stardock, after all, is a software developer, we can get around this stuff if we put effort into it).

Group 1 users will be able to download up to 50 megabytes of skins and themes without having to purchase something or contribute something. They will see a lot of ads but not quite as much as group 0. Still quite a bit more than they see today.  The number of ads these users see will grow based on the # of megabytes they download.  At first, a group 1 user would see about the same # of ads as group 2 but then it would steadily increase.  The system will also be updated to make it more difficult to bypass.

Group 2 users will be able to download up to 500 megabytes of skins and themes of the product they had bought and 50 megabytes elsewhere without having to purchase something or contribute something. Otherwise they are the same as group 1.

Group 3 users will be able to download an unlimited amount of content in the product they've purchased plus 100 megabytes elsewhere. They don't see quite as much ads as group 2.

Group 4 users will be able to download an unlimited amount of content. They see fewer ads. They get personal pages.

Group 5 users will be able to download premium skins. They see no ads. They have unlimited downloads. They get the WinCustomize skin browser. They get to download subscriber-only skins. Their posts, comments, etc. will have a graphic by them indicating that they are a subscriber.

New Features

Contributor Access.  Anyone who submits a skin, theme, icon, wallpaper that gets made public is automatically promoted to Contributor level. They automatically gain new privileges on the site.

Subscriber-Only Skins. When a user who has Master access or higher submits a skin, a checkbox will appear that will indicate whether it is only available for subscribers or not.  If checked, the skin is only available for subscribers for 30 days after its original create date (updates don't count).  Eventually, skinners will be able to have a special link to their Affiliate page (if exists) https://www.stardock.com/affiliates.asp that if the person buys a subscription from their link the skin author will receive 20% of the revenue.

Long Term Goal

In the near-term, we want to get the site to be financially viable.  A site with the level of visitation that WinCustomize currently has should have at least 3 full-time people dedicated to it with another 3 who provide help part-time (speaking in terms of web design, database development, ASP development, server management, community support, etc.).  The site also needs at least 3 more servers which is where the money from the subscription drive is largely going to go towards. 

Once revenue is more balanced under the current system through the changes we mentioned above, Stardock will hire people who will work on WinCustomize full-time to help support subscribers and the community in general.  Some people have noted how much of a difference just having one person providing community support in the forums recently.  Having people assigned to work on the site could make a big difference and help the site evolve into a place that isn't just a first-rate community but a place where skinners and artists can financially benefit from their work as well.

So the site isn't going to become some subscriber-only site.  There will be a few more limits on non-subscribers and those without accounts or haven't purchased anything will start to see a lot mroe ads.  But hopefully over time these changes will be enough to tilt the mighty ship on course.  When you're dealing with millions of people each month, you only have to make changes that make a slight effect.   Supporting the site can mean everything from buying a subscription to supporting our advertisers by visiting their sites through their ads to of course creating skins, themes, icons, wallpapers, etc. as well as participating on our forums and comments areas.

87,195 views 234 replies
Reply #126 from WinCustomize Forums Top
First of all, I think it is great that wincustomize is still online. Like a number of others, I was a little dismayed at the lack of subscriptions that came in. However, the new "plan" will hopefully go toward remedying the problem of bandwidth usage one way or another. I also think that the restrictions on the bottom end of the scale are a little on the easy side and could have been stiffened up a bit more. Of course, it isn't like the present policy is etched in stone and couldn't change if needed.

For me, aside from all the skins that are selflessly made available, I have come to know some really great folks in the community and would like to simply say Thank You for sharing your knowledge and time with me when I've asked for help.
Reply #127 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Brad & Co., Thx for the hard work by everyone at SD/WC...having been here since May of '02 it's been great!! I think I'm in the #4 Class but it really doesn't matter - as long as the website flourishes that's whats important. I think the entire reconstruction of availability/class/rewards serves the site well. Thx again!
SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #128 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Sounds great. I’m for anything that helps the survival of the community and WC(and Stardock).

I’m sure you have thought of this but what if people pay for the bandwidth they use.
E.g. They reach their download cap. Deposit $10 into their account and 5 or 10 cents gets deducted for each meg they download.
Will also work to promoting subs as they will soon realize its cheaper to buy a subscription.

Another thought is just that this will affect downloads of new skins and content.
With all the stats and rankings on WC new skinners will never reach the ranks of the masters as they will never get as many downloads as when downloads were unlimited like in the days of the windowblinds library.

Next, what about the kids. A lot of them these days are far more computer literate than I will ever be. Skinning by its nature of customization and personalization will, I think, appeal mostly to them. The main thing is that its not always easy for them to do transactions on the net, even if they have the cash. I know in my country of residence most people cringe when they think of having to pay in dollars no matter how small the amount(exchange rate etc.).

Lastly if this doesn’t make sense please don’t shoot me. The reason I don’t post in the forums often is that I cannot get my thoughts onto paper coherently. English may be my first language but it was my worst subject at school.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Reply #129 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I like the new plan.

I think the download limitations for the lower numbered groups are too high. i think they should be lowered.

Other than that, it sounds like a good plan. I look forward to seeing the new advertising layout and marketing plan so that Wincustomize earns more money though ads. With 3 million people coming to the site monthly, there is no reason not to earn money off of that. These 3 million people... some of them have to be looking for something computer or tech related (and maybe some not so obvious relationships like family trips, housing/rent and food), so earning revenue (if you take the Google aproach to advertising and show people what they are interested in) will help ad revenue for this site. I hope the new advertising push aligns itself to educating the viewer rather than just throwing stuff at them and seeing what sticks. I look forward to seeing Alienware ads... I like those ads.



I AM ALSO IN LOVE WITH THE IDEA OF CONTRIBUTERS EARNING MONEY!!!

WinCustomize becoming a Revenue Sharing site is a great idea. I first thought of it for my skin site a few months ago, and I seen it done with a site I am on (check out the site here... its called JoomlaYa and its for Joomla, a site content manager)

WinCustomize should produce a skinning magazine. that would be cool. another way of bringing people to the site, advertisers and have people create more content for the site using Revenue Sharing.
Reply #130 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Revenue sharing????
I missed that part, lemme go read the post again! I'm all for that one.
Reply #131 from WinCustomize Forums Top
it would only be a matter of time until there will be a hack to active it again


Yes, I understand that better locks simply lead to better theives but I also know for a fact that the number of people that will go through the trouble of trying to find a crack as opposed to either un-installing it is probably fairly small. Also, depending on the process that is put in place SD could make it extremely difficult to just re-activate it once the demo period was up. It's not about stopping everyone, it's about making it sufficiently difficult as to make buying the product that much more attractive. I mean really, WB is what $19.95.. If I were faced with the choice of scouring hundreds of warez sites in the search of a crack which might take a fair bit of time and result in my PC being infected with who knows what or paying $19.95, I think I'll pay the money and save my time for something truly useful. So, while your statement has some truth, I think the fact that we're talking about a $20 piece of software and not a $200 piece of software makes quite a difference in the lengths people would be willing to go to avoid paying for the software.
Reply #132 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Do people who submit skins, icons, themes get a cut on the amount of cash this plan will generate? ...say $.05/download? Probably not, but I thought I'd ask. heehee
Reply #133 from WinCustomize Forums Top
All this reminds me of the old POV-Ray forums of years back. Some last and some dont.
Reply #134 from WinCustomize Forums Top
grrr wish i wasnt so click happy... sorry for the double post
Reply #135 from WinCustomize Forums Top
#129 by Developer joetheblow: WinCustomize should produce a skinning magazine. that would be cool. another way of bringing people to the site, advertisers and have people create more content for the site using Revenue Sharing.


A magazine would be great, and there is already an infrastructure for great articles. Users who have a good idea and write well could become magazine contributors. One that immediately comes to mind is Mormegil. His icon tutorials were at least as good if not better than the kinds of articles found in magazines such as Computer Arts. A magazine like that could go a long way here in the US. I have to pay $15.00 for one copy of that mag, but I just haven't found anything better that is domestic. We have the talent and tools here to offer something of equal or greater value than the aforementioned. Additionally, you could easily retail it for $7.50, and come in at half the price of Computer Arts or Practical Web Pages, and still be retailing for about $2.50 to 3.50 higher than the average newsstand price of most magazines. And, people would pay it. Plus you could offer a free WC sub with a year long subscription to the mag or something closely vice-versa. There is a lot of potential there. I am your first subscriber, and I would be more than happy to contribute in any way possible if this ever goes futrher than this forum.
Reply #136 from WinCustomize Forums Top
A magazine would be great



I definitely agree, maybe one that has an occasional CD loaded with goodies. I spend way to much on tech rags and books, but one more def wouldnt hurt. Tutorials would be great. Or even frameworks for things like WindowBlinds. A WC mag would be great.
Reply #137 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So I guess its like this. If you havent got object desktop yet its going to cost you $50 for object desktop and then another $20 to be able to get the good skins before they are buryed by all the other skins for a month...I think If youve payed for Object desktop you should be entitled to all the skins that are being made free for d load. Lets face it, If stardock didn't have this site to get the skins from I wouldn't have been renewing object desktop since 2001. I don't use the personal page and all I usually am interested in are the windowblinds skins and iconpacker and cursor xp. I feel a bit slighted from being seemingly forced into buying a added subscription for a site just to be able to have full access to the skins that should be available to me for buying there product (not the premium ones). That's like buying mcafee antivirus and them saying well you can have the virus defs but you cant get the good ones for 30 days until you subscribe to the site. I understand WC needs to make money and am all for that. I just don't think they should pentelise there existing customers that paid more for the software than the subscription thou. Ive gotten tierd of uploading wallpapers only to never hear anything and to not see them uploaded to the site. Things Ive gotten over 50 comments on DA with never got accepted here so what am I to do? I work 10 hours a day 6 days a week and don't have time to learn how to skin and comment a lot. I do comment on things I think are great.There are about 2 maybe 3 WB skins I download a week if I really like them, I worry now with this plan in place that those possible 2 I would like to get will be unavailable for 4 weeks and then buried by the time I can get them. And will never end up getting them for not seeing them any more. That would end up making it not worth renewing Object desktop as all the good skins still cost more money still. I understand the premium skins not being available and that's fair but the other ones I worry about...
Just my opinion as unpopular as it might be..
Reply #138 from WinCustomize Forums Top

That's like buying mcafee antivirus and them saying well you can have the virus defs but you cant get the good ones for 30 days until you subscribe to the site.

You get the defs for a year....after that you get nothing.

Unless you subscribe.

Sounds familiar....

Reply #139 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Sure, and what I meant by that was in buying a renewal to Objectdesktop I should be entitled to good skins for a year..
Reply #140 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I understand you have to do something..Im just not thrilled with the holding out on the good skins for 30 days for object desktop customers thing..
Reply #141 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Sure, and what I meant by that was in buying a renewal to Objectdesktop I should be entitled to good skins for a year.


I have both ODntwork and WC. WHen I bought ODn it was with the assumption I bought software that could make my desktop look better and function the way I want it too. However it did NOT entitle me to skins I didnt make other than the ones that were free or easily gotten. Not to sound harsh, but I think you need to re-read Stardocks ads on their products. You get a little to show you what you can do with the application, however there is no promise that there will be additional skins for your use. This depends upon the good will and designers who make the skins. Which I might add, are just wonderful. I am still trying to learn how to make these.
I develop software, I create applications that do a wide variety of things. If I make a UI that allows you monitor your bank account it doesnt automatically mean you get to use any banks service for free. You would have to pay to use that service but at least you would have a nice UI to do it with. thats my point ...
Anyways... just my 2 cents worth.
Reply #142 from WinCustomize Forums Top
A little confused here. First, seems like a good plan and I am only too happy to support this great site.
I have been a long time user of ObjDesktop and various Statrdock programs. I guess that made me a limited user, so to speak. Yesterday, I signed up for a Wincustomize account for $19.95. Was that the Platinum account? If so, fine, but the whole process is very murkey as to what type account you are paying for. Why? First of all the account is managed by Stardock, not Wincustomize. It is very confusing since I have one PW for Stardock and another for the Stardock store. Hard to know which one to use, and it must surely put off some people. To make it even more confusing, when I log onto Wincustomize now, I still have my old Nick and PW and when I try to access the private areas, I am told I don't have the right priveleges. When I use the WC Browser, I still get logged in with my old nick.

I am not complaining. I bring this up because if it confuses me, it must also confuse others. Would it be possible to get ONE password for Stardock and all it's area's? Also when subscribing to Wincustomize, a new Nick and PW could be in order?

Right now, I can't seem to find access to the private skins. nor do I see how to download the two free ones I am supposed to be in line for. I don't really care about free skins so much as I just want to know if I am doing something wrong or what?

Great site, great people, exceptional talent in the skinners, and for the most part very user friendly. I just need a little guidance I guess.

Thanks from root.
Reply #143 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Sure, and what I meant by that was in buying a renewal to Objectdesktop I should be entitled to good skins for a year.


//fictional editorial to make a point...

//I recently bought a cell phone. It has the ability for me to change the cover, and it even came with a few for my immediate use. When I was leaving the store, I noticed a merchandise rack with tons of covers for my phone model. Since the covers were out in the open, I decided to take a couple out of the store as I was leaving. I was suprised when the alarm went off, and a "loss prevention" clerk came up to me and informed me that I was shoplifting. Of course, I immediately replied, "I bought this phone which can be customized, I should have the right to as many covers as I can get... for free!". I have never heard such laughter. After spending an evening in the county jail for shoplifting, I finally came to my senses and realized that although I had purchased the phone, I had not purchased the additional covers, so they did not belong to me. I later returned to the store where I bought my phone and I did purchase some additional covers, and now I am happy with my sparkling new customizeable cell phone!

Sembetu
Reply #144 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Cute lil analogy Sembetu but did the store manufacture all those cute covers you're talking about or did some of the customers?

You see most the skins that are uploaded here were given as a "gift" to share w/ other ppl who own the software, now if the store is gonna charge them rent they should "all" get some money too...
Reply #145 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I asked the store owner about that and he told me that the store paid for the overhead to house and display them, as well as the shipping of the covers. Additionally, he did mention that the covers were independently manufactured, but for the sole purpose of distribution through that store and others like it who retail that particular type of phone. Incidentally, there were also some consignment covers as well. That store owner sure is a nice guy.

Sembetu
Reply #146 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hmm I sure hope my family don't read this and start getting ideas to charge me fees to hold their X-mas gifts I give to them under their trees this year... hehe
Reply #147 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Anyways back on topic... this thing has been brought up and beaten to death. Let's hope everyone can find a good solution suitable for everyone involved (and that it don't cost them their rent and food money)
Reply #148 from WinCustomize Forums Top
BTW Sembetu I love the apps and I've purchased most all of them over the years, it's just this is not a typical skin site in the so called skinning community it is a business site, therefore you expect a business site to give back alil w/o charging again for that as well...
It's always nice when you can get an added extra whatever as a bonus after you purchase something (but these days it's unheard of anyways)
Reply #149 from WinCustomize Forums Top
You see most the skins that are uploaded here were given as a "gift" to share w/ other ppl who own the software, now if the store is gonna charge them rent they should "all" get some money too...


The nice thing about the internet is that it's pretty open. If anyone here wants to start 100% free skin site where it's supported by whatever means you want you can. And you can solicit the skinners her to submit at your site. More power to you. Good luck.

TANSTAAFL. You'll figure it out sooner rather than later I think.

I've been amember of WC since 2001. I have submitted two DX widgets, post once in a while, don't use my personal pages, don't download a whole lot of skins. But I appreciate the service that's being provided (skins, community) and understand that if I want that service someone has to pay. I am willing to be counted as a supporter. It also gives me the right to bitch and moan more than a non-subscriber (not that I do, but I can.)

When people complain about the goverment but didn't vote I tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. Same priciple there.

If WC has a value to you (and it must if you are here) then figure out for yourself what that value is. If it's more than $20/ year subscribe. If it's less you should find somewhere of more value to hang out or accept the limitations of the new structure.

As far as the store analogy goes, I see it more like a art gallery. The artist hires the space and might make a sale (if selling). A fee is charged for those who come to view the work.
Reply #150 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think I was a member here since day one? if not then shortly thereafter and know most of these guys since before they had "this site" to play on? so I too might have a small right to moan myself (maybe not but I will today anyways) I only moan for the ones that may wish to say similiar things such as me but are too afraid to speak up against certain ppl for fear someone might attack them w/ mean and nasty text on the screen...

Also I would not care to start my own skinning site as you were kind enough to recommend however if I was a skinnable software dev I would have a section and/or site for ppl that bought my apps to upload their skins for my apps and show my appreciation by not charging them for my rent...