I don't think children look for the hidden meaning behind things very often...they pretty much take things as they see them. Hell, I'll miss the hidden meanings behind stuff if I'm not looking for it. If you tell the kids that this is an attack on God...then that's what they'll see. Take them there to watch a fun fantasy movie and that's what they'll do. I have yet to hear any deep philosophical or religious discussions from anyone below the age of 15 without some kind of prompting.

If I see some 13 year old walk out of that movie and proclaim that it was an affront to God by his/her own reasoning, I will buy a hat and then I will eat it.

~Zoo

KFC POSTS:

Exactly.
The Catholic League is watching out for us..it's giving us a heads-up about the dangers... it's giving us ample warning to stay away from the movie.

It's good advice...and advice I plan on heeding.



Yup. Although some bishops are warning against it...we got flyers in the Church bulletin..Same as DaVinci Code...some bishops warned against that one too..





Dan,

First, no one that I know of is censoring the movie. So get off the censor wagon...

Second,

The whole reason for the boycott IS the content of the movie...of course we should focus discussION ON the content..

I find this to be true in general. We bring up our kids in the faith, and set the moral teaching allowing them to make little decisions when they are young, and by the time they are older and up and away, they can lean back on what they've been taught and make big decisions.

This movie though, becasue of Pullman's known and admitted hatred of Christianity and becasue it shows in the film, is one to avoid. No parent who brings their children up in the faith will want any part of this movie. There is nothing good about promoting atheism to kids even benignly.

The "they" would be me...and what is "crap" to some is God's very Word to others.

"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he that hearkens unto counsel is wise." Proverbs 12:15

I'm hearkening unto the good counsel of the Catholic League and you should too...the Golden Compass is for no one.

I wish that no one would follow Pullman, the pied piper of atheism, off the cliff into the abyss.

"I don't see the Catholic church, in this case, excommunicating any who go to this movie. Right Lula? There is no demand here but just a warning and this is the vehicle for it."

That's because the church isn't behind the boycott, the C league is.

"the reason why we will not see the movie."

Which is that the movie is satanic, and portrays Catholics in a bad way, because they believe in fantasy? What exactly is the reason you won't see the movie? Is it perhaps solely because you feel the need to band together blindly in cause irregardless of what that cause is, or how meritorious that cause is, only to support fellow Christians?

If and only if, that is the case, that's religious fanaticalism, not reasoned thinking, or open minded reception to different ideas. I am pretty certain that religion for people isn't about the truth really as much as it is about being right, and in the end sticking to it because you don't want to be wrong. Some of course would take a different view, consider that...

Nobody has seen a screening of the movie,
Everybody already has a negative opinion of the author because of previous literature,
The boycott is not coming from the church, but from the C league, which is out of line with that the church teaches, tolerance and brotherhood.

"I will choose NOT to watch the Golden Compass"

I respect your decision, but not your reasoning.

"It's not so much what's IN the movie Zoo. It's the spirit BEHIND it that bothers us."

Again, absolutely no factual basis for drawing conclusions whatsoever. Author is an atheist. So what.

---

"I don't think children look for the hidden meaning behind things very often...they pretty much take things as they see them. Hell, I'll miss the hidden meanings behind stuff if I'm not looking for it. If you tell the kids that this is an attack on God...then that's what they'll see. Take them there to watch a fun fantasy movie and that's what they'll do. I have yet to hear any deep philosophical or religious discussions from anyone below the age of 15 without some kind of prompting."

---

Exactly a point that needed to be made thanks Zoo. Adults blow this kind of thing way out of proportion months in advance and for what?

"Dan, First, no one that I know of is censoring the movie. So get off the censor wagon... Second, The whole reason for the boycott IS the content of the movie...of course we should focus discussION ON the content.."

Absolutely wrong. You may focus your discussion on whatever you wish, the point of censorship, is that it doesn't have to be by a government, any force that denies anybody access to an idea, is censorship. In some cases it's ok, of course you want to control, as an individual what your children are exposed to, that's fine, that's why they show more than one movie at the theater, but calling for a global boycott of the film, has already had the author's literature CENSORED in a library. Boycotts for not better reason than differing ideologies, don't promote fair and free exchange of ideas.

I'm not saying you have to participate in the exchange of ideas, but certainly the leader of the C league is against free speech and free exchange of any idea that might not favorably portray the church.

"This movie though, becasue of Pullman's known and admitted hatred of Christianity and becasue it shows in the film, is one to avoid. No parent who brings their children up in the faith will want any part of this movie. There is nothing good about promoting atheism to kids even benignly."

Now you are twisting the truth, Pullman, hasn't said he hates the church or Christianity, if you have a quote, link us to it. Otherwise, concede your argument comes from the C League who have and will misrepresent their opponents position.

The Golden Compass is a book. You don't have to see a screening of the movie to know the message. Why do you keep saying, "How can you judge this movie without a screening?" when it's based on a book that has been out? If I had read Harry Potter and thought it was anti-Christian, I wouldn't want to see the movie either. If I read DaVinci code and thought it was anti-Christian, I wouldn't go see the movie. You can't judge a book by it's cover, but you can judge a movie by it's book.

Good point.

Y'all MUST stop busting Dan's chops here. I haven't heard him once say that parents who don't want to see it should be forced to see it.

Presumption: That the Bible inspires parroting, and that other material inspires free thought.

Truth: People think for themselves about things, or they don't. It doesn't matter what you're looking at, a Bible or a fantasy story, people will either parrot it or think for themselves about it based on themselves, not on what they're reading/watching.

Basically, you're going to end up with people still NOT thinking original thoughts and just parroting the anti-Christian lines, just like some Christians don't think and parrot the Christian lines.

Ohhhh, yah, say it like it is....

Lula posts:

Dan Greene posts:




Dan, you have already provided a quote from Pullman himself...




What exactly has the Catholic League as you say "misrepresented", Dan?

Gid-

Dan's chops seem to need a little busting.

"How dare you use quotes I used previously against me now that they don't support my point!"

Not necessarily. Sometimes a movie is faithful to its book adaptation- Silence of the Lambs for instance was remarkably close to the book. Other movies go off on some crazy ass pseudo story and the message can be lost entirely. That happens with most book to movie adaptations. The book holds more tangible content than a movie ever will. People are often disappointed when the movie in no way reflects the book.

Anyway, a children's movie is often just that, a children's movie. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

~Zoo

Sometimes, a cigar contains a spray that puts people to sleep.

Movies often lead to reading the book behind it, because of that very fact. So that will lead to young'uns seeing the movie, and then reading the book, and basically being lied to about God by someone who is specifically trying to undermine Christian beliefs.

Yes, and I think of Martin Luther Jr. who said:

"He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."

— Martin Luther King Jr, 1958

"How can you judge this movie without a screening?"

Mein Kampf was a book too, nobody gave it much thought. Only this time the situation is reversed, nobody has seen the movie, yet everybody thinks they know exactly what is in it.

"Y'all MUST stop busting Dan's chops here. I haven't heard him once say that parents who don't want to see it should be forced to see it."

Exactly right, don't take your kids to see if it you dont want to. Don't let your kids watch MTV if you don't want to, don't let them watch CNN if you don't want to, but don't tell my kids or me, that we can't watch it, or we won't be able to find it on TV because you find it what hasn't been seen, but only conceptualized in your mind, as potentially offensive.

Hey Gid, is it still Joe User or Gid User, 3 featured articles on the front page, lol what are you collecting a salary here?

"What exactly has the Catholic League as you say "misrepresented", Dan?"

If you take the literal interpretation, "My books are about killing God", "trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief." The choice of words, if poor as quoting people off the cuff tends to do. Killing the idea of God, in the literary sense, is defeating it by providing atheistic examples of why God does not exist. He doesn't kill God in the books, out of hate, but to offer society another perspective. It isn't just God or only God, but organized religion in general. Catholics have chosen to take it personally, with the C League's endorsement of boycotting any expression that is perceived anti-catholic, whether or not it is.

I would argue that atheists are much more scientific thinkers than people who have a belief in God. Not all atheists, and not all believes in God, but in general. When you try to undermine a theory in science, you use observations and the scientific method to defeat an incorrect notion.

Even the laws of nature, are sometimes rewritten or re-understood. In a sense he means, his books are about killing God, because you essential kill God when you take away God's power over man. Similar to the mankind killed Zeus, when people stopped believing that Greek mythology was anything but mythology.

That is his perspective. I will remind you it a perfectly legit, certainly as legit as believing in organized religion, because essentially there is no way to prove or disprove totally and without a doubt that God exists, or that one religion is the God's path over the other. Consider for a moment, if there was absolute and total proof, that we would not be arguing the point about the existence of God.

In order for you to understand the viewpoint, the words, you have to get past the blatant hatred for other peoples differing perspectives, and even though you don't feel it's necessary, give your debater opponent equal footing. That is exactly what the C league doesn't see fit to do. People in this country have a freedom of expression right, an inalienable right, given to them by their creator, whoever or whatever that may be. Nobody can argue that we do not exist, but nobody can argue that we know exactly who created us, for what purpose, or that we even have a creator. It is not known as fact. Maybe, faith, and maybe belief, founded or unfounded, but fact, like the atomic weight of carbon = 12, it is not.

Another point, the comment he made, or statement, is in regards to the books, the literature, but they make no claim or mention of the movie, a movie we STILL HAVE YET TO SEE. LOL

"How dare you use quotes I used previously against me now that they don't support my point!"

Well I think I've cleared it up nice and tidy thank you very much.

"Movies often lead to reading the book behind it, because of that very fact. So that will lead to young'uns seeing the movie, and then reading the book, and basically being lied to about God by someone who is specifically trying to undermine Christian beliefs."

So, he has no right to speak on the subject? He has no right to make observations on religion in the public domain? He has no right to make the case for moving beyond religion?

I'm not trying to defend the point he makes, only that he has a right to make it, and also that I have a right to hear it. I guess when you live in a world where religion is more important that your rights you can kinda see the tragedies that occur in societies where freedom of speech doesn't carry much weight.

I don't believe he is doing anything to infringe upon the rights of Catholics to practice their religion, only to make his point. It is the C League that is choosing to take this fight to him and at what cost. If Will Donahue was a little more media savvy that he is, considering the years he's been in this business you'd expect him to be a brighter man than he is, he would have taken a lighter handed approach and not stirred the pot until its ready to boil over. I would guess that you will see, a pretty big turn out over the controversy, and teenagers seeing the movie, in kniving ways kids do things at the PG-13 age lol.

Who is accepting evil?

I WISH!

What the hell have you been smoking? Smoke is bad, but spray me in the face it does not. Sounds like something from a Bond movie.



Children read books these days?

If that is the case, then they should be smart enough to think for themselves. Kids who read for their own enjoyment are a rarity and probably won't be brainwashed by reading a book. I've read hundreds of things and yet I've remained pretty much the same person with the same viewpoints. Words only have as much power as you give them. Read and agree, read and disagree, or just read and enjoy.

~Zoo

Wow.

I just finished reading all these comments, and I just have to say thank you to KFC and Lula.

I hadn't really thought twice about this movie, but your comments on here have definitely given me some food for thought.






I'm-a go see this shit on opening weekend, babee. I'm-a take my fourteen-year-old sister along.

I'm-a tell you when she loses her faith.

Metal Gear Solid 3... one of the weapons you can equip while disguised as a scientist.

30 years from now, you will wonder why she isn't following Christ... and no-one will remember that it all started with a movie... foolish mortal!

lula posts:


I've just received information from the Diocese of La Cross, Wisconson that helps explain more about it being as simple as allowing kids to watch a fantasy movie...

The Diocese of La Cross answered the question: "Why can't kids go to it as a fun, fantasy movie? What am I to tell my child?"

The handout says: "It is no simple fantasy. It is about evil being presented in an enticing and glamorous way. As the first teachers and protectors, parents would not allow their children to be desensitized to evil so that it becomes commonplace and they no longer recognize it as dangerous and seek to avoid it. It is the same as saying that parents would not let their children drink poison. Tell your children that this movie is definitely poison for the soul. In the Our Father, Jesus taught us clearly to pray, deliver us from evil. Jesus does not want us to toy with evil even when it looks fascinating."

Holy crap, that's hilarious! How does it present evil in a glamorous way? I thought the good guys always won in these kids movies...in fact, most stories feature the good guys winning.

I guess Catholics don't watch cable...if a children's movie gets their hackles up then I can only imagine what HBO does to your soul.

~Zoo

That's the reason why I plan to see it too with my kids! I will be there, I'm their guide when they have questions or are confused! I don't need anyone else to tell them something that I myself don't believe or cannot answer to.

I teach them the difference between right and wrong and more than anything else, to trust their instincts.

I'm sorry Lula, if there is evil out there I want my children to recognise it. I want them to know what it feels like and what it will try to do and they must to do stop it. Hiding from it doesn't help, knowing all about it helps! That said doesn't mean they see fire and put their hands in it, but rather they will be equipped to know that if they have to touch it in order to save themselves because that is the only way out, then put on protective gear or find a way around it!