The Golden Compass

Yeah, Dan (I'll leave the comments about the unreadable font to the next poster), let's talk about the negatives of religion. Let's talk about the bad done in the name of religion. Let's completely ignore the schools, hospitals, houses, and other endeavours that have been built by people of all faiths, and let's concentrate on the violence and murder undertaken by a minority in those faiths.

I haven't read any of these books, and, from the description, do not care to. I would never call for a boycott, but I assure you, these books will never appear on MY bookshelf. The author has a right to free speech, he does NOT have a right to have me pay for his speech.

Hello Dan,

I want to join this discussion and am just getting on the radar.

I used to work as a librarian for a Catholic school and had the opportunity to preview Pullman's books. I decided against them. No child should read these books or see the movie. Why? becasue Pullman not only hates God, he doesn't like children either. Pullman describes God as a liar and an angel who evolved from dust. The children in Pullman's world are kidnapped, drugged, murdered, mutiliated, abandoned, used for occult scientific experiments, and severed from their souls as part of a ritual to open up gateways between worlds. Pullman has these actions take place at the hands of Catholic Chruch officials with the Church's blessing.

I totally agree and supporty the Catholic League's call for a boycott in protection of children from these dark, Satanic, atheistic influences. And for that, you can label me and the Catholic League religious nuts all you want, Dan Greene. You are an adult, if you want to waste your time and money on seeing such garbage that's fine...but please try to understand that there are some of us parents who are totally disgusted at Hollywood and the publishing industries insulting God in such a manner. It's a totally pathetic sad, miserable day in this country when blasphemy constitutes award-winning children's literature.

I cound't respond earlier

I guess as a free thinking individual, and in favor of that idea, that it is my opinion, that religions should be encouraging people to find answers and their own faith. Not in actively working to censor ideas which may not fall directly in line with their own.

I guess it would be asking too much for people to even, have seen the movie, before you can call it "Satanic, atheistic" lol. It's a fantasy kids movie, with a theme being a golden compass, which points to the truth.

If it really is just as "waste your time and money on seeing such garbage" why the need for a boycott? I believe it weakens the church when they round up the religious posse and go on these boycott this, boycott that, drives against media, which will have the opposite effect, of drawing more teenagers and younger kids to the movie itself.

"It's a totally pathetic sad, miserable day in this country when blasphemy constitutes award-winning children's literature."

Oh gee, let me get my violin, and play some Shubert for you, while you go on a whine rant. Why is it a terrible miserable sad, day, because a book is well written and exposed a different viewpoint than your own?

"Let's talk about the bad done in the name of religion."

How about the history of murder and warfare fought for "religious" causes. The examples are littered throughout history, you pick a timeframe, I'll cite an example.

"Let's completely ignore the schools, hospitals, houses, and other endeavours that have been built by people of all faiths, and let's concentrate on the violence and murder undertaken by a minority in those faiths."

I have no misunderstanding about the benefits to communities that religious endeavors contribute. I also agree with any religions right to boycott. I don't discount the positive influence religions have on people, and on communities, when people and communities seek out religions. I also believe it is right of people of religion to have a feedom to express themselves. My perspective, on this particular issues, is that religions ought to pick and choose boycotts in a more intelligent manner, they also ought to implement them with a little more discretion and in a way that won't go driving the audience they are trying to "shield" from harmful influence.

Are you afraid, that your religious teaching, as fact, cannot hold up to other ideas, which are more easily provable, understandable, and demonstratable, ideas like science? I don't see any science in the idea of a "golden compass" that can determine truth, honesty and dishonesty. I also don't see much science, in religion, I see a lot of people who actively just accept what is being told and taught to them, as fact.

"Beware The Golden compass, it's satanic, it's anti christian, it's anti god, you'll go to hell, your toilet will overflow onto your carpets."

Really, when will people start thinking for themselves? Maybe that is the theme, and the golden compass is only a literary device for a reader to realize they have this power/ability inside themselves. If you take the theme and apply it to yourself, you are in yourself a golden compass, do you not subjectively determine at times if you are being lied to, or not? Are there not plenty of religious leaders who are totally full of BS?

I guess that's too powerful an ability for you to want your kids to have then, is that it?

I fail to understand why people with a serious religious faith, would choose a target a fantasy kids movie, just because it is written by someone who does not have faith, and who's literary works don't condone religious teaching. Does not your own book of faith, explicitly state that it is the only true work of God? Do you not act as your own golden compass to come to a conclusion as to whether or not that is true?

"Some commentators have indicated they believe both sides' criticism will prove ultimately impotent and that the negative publicity will prove a boon for the film's box office."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Compass_(film)#Controversies

DUH!

If I am to understand your positions correctly, and help me out. You would rather your children, not see this film, and grow up to believe in your faith absolutely. Than, see it, risk being shaken in their faith, but ultimately continue to follow in your footsteps?

What happens if they don't see it but when they turn 40 or 50, lose their faith, after you are gone? What happens when they first do start to question, and can't find the answers, what happens when they can't find their way back?

Just another thought

Ahhh, if the AUTHOR calls it atheistic, I can't make a judgement off of that? Gotcha.

Look, Dan, I'm not calling for censorship. I would never do that, that's not my style. This author can write as many piece of crap books as he wants, it's my right not to read them or watch the movies, and for you to try to use pressure to guilt people into watching something that directly attacks our beliefs.



Only if you're fundamentally stupid, which appears to be the case, could you draw that conclusion from what I said. I don't let my kids watch Tarantino flicks either, because I select movies which fit their educational level.

I don't expect my children to parrot my faith, because that's not faith. But I WILL raise them up in the instruction of my faith, as well as a basic knowledge of what else is out there. I don't have to indoctrinate them to educate them, Dan.

The truth is, I KNOW the truth of what I believe. I don't question it anymore (although I will question minor points of doctrine), because I know. And I have very good reasons for that knowledge. I am instructed to train my children "in the way they should go"; NOT in the thousands of ways they shouldn't. They'll find those soon enough on their own.

I agree with you that a boycott is misguided. That's why I don't support them. But just as I don't throw my money in the offering plate of churches that do not teach the truth, I will not spend money to watch a movie that is equally fallacious. It's that simple.

Points to whose truth, Dan?

I think it's a waste of time and money. The call for the boycott goes beyond that...it is the way one Christian warns another Christian of an occasion of evil. The movie and the books are evil and it isn't coincidence that it is set to be distributed in theatres throughout the country just before Christmas.

Becasue the books are blasphemous and so is the movie based upon them.

Me too.... and that's why a lot of people will allow their children to sheepishly follow Pullman, the pied piper of atheism.

"and for you to try to use pressure to guilt people into watching something that directly attacks our beliefs."

I think that's hardly what I am doing. If you feel guilt, choosing to publicly boycott a fantasy movie, because it doesn't fall into line with your religion, that really is on you not me. If I have offended those who do, consider that your religious belief is yours and that of your family. It should not need to carry over onto me, should it?

"I agree with you that a boycott is misguided."

Thank you, I knew we'd find a common agreement with the stupidity of boycotting fantasy film flicks.

By the way you respond, you seem to think that I choose to want to raise your children, or that this movie wants to raise your children. I am quiet sure, the primary goal of any $150 million fantasy feature film is to make money. Not to educate, not to indoctrinate, and certainly not to lead those astray from a fact finding mission in the great search for God.

Have you ever considered, a healthy, questioning of "why" actually stimulates a person/entity to seek and find the answers so that when the time to actually know why with conviction comes, a person is able to possess that knowledge, rather than just repeat what has been indoctrinated into them over and over again.

But so long as the religions make it their business to tell you and I how to live life, you will find others telling you to make your decisions. Now if you want to read into a fantasy movie, as having harmful subtexts, and misleading fantasy illusions which would be harmful to a PG 13 audience fine. If you want to read into that without even seeing the movie fine.

"Ahhh, if the AUTHOR calls it atheistic, I can't make a judgement off of that? Gotcha."

Where and when did the author say that about the Golden Compass?

"Points to whose truth, Dan?"
LOL. Um hello, it's a work of fantasy, the compass itself doesn't have a true side and false side, it has a bunch of mystical symbols on it, like 32 of them or something, and 3 hands like a clock. They point to symbols, you read of them what you will, just like Tarot cards. LOL.

It's not factual like Poker, Ace high beats low card, or three of a kind beats two pair. The symbols are read best by the little girl main character. Oh yes, very satanic right? LOL.

I actually think it's an interesting concept but I like my fantasy movies R to be honest.

"I think it's a waste of time and money. The call for the boycott goes beyond that...it is the way one Christian warns another Christian of an occasion of evil. The movie and the books are evil and it isn't coincidence that it is set to be distributed in theatres throughout the country just before Christmas."

Thats such a load of crap. Free speech is evil? That sounds really small minded to me. I'm sorry I even asked for opinions, when they fall to that level.

"Me too.... and that's why a lot of people will allow their children to sheepishly follow Pullman, the pied piper of atheism."

It would appear, if the people in this forum had their way, we'd be burning books like they did in piles in 1933 Nazi Rally, rather than, being UnGerman, we could give them the title "evil" just like Bush has about "terrorists", all because the letters forming words, forming sentences, forming novels, well of course creative written literature that doesn't automatically support religions of old, well thats just beneath us, and evil, and savage, and corrupting our children's minds.

Never mind the 24/7 barrage from MTV or the rampant porn on the web.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/bookburn.htm

Yes boycotting and eventually ridding our creative minds of PG13 fantasy kids movies are the answer to anti-catholicism.

Hey take it from this German man...
"The lesson is - don't burn ideas, even if they're not good ideas you don't have to burn them"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3016567.stm

Evil, Right on.

I didn't see DaVinci Code and I probably won't see this. Why? Because I don't want to. Not because someone told me not to. After all, if it's a FANTASY movie which you keep stressing, how will it teach me anything about real life? How will it teach me to think for myself? If I watch Eragon to learn to fight, I'm going to try to cast a spell and that's not reality. So why would the ideas in a FANTASY book have anything to do with real life? The golden compass points to fantasy. It points to untruth. Why would it shake anyone's faith to watch it?

Exactly, since nobody has watched it, since it hasn't been in a theater yet, why boycott? It's not like movie studios are in the business of making films anti-any religion. If you want to read into plots farther than they are written, could you not make the case that starwars, was against the war in Iraq?

How about Lord of the Rings? Anybody afraid that the religious messages in that movie, qualify as taking away a kids belief and understanding in God? Why single out Golden Compass, I'll tell you why, because the author has an atheistic viewpoint, and you ostracize him for it, hate him for it, hate what choosing to not believe stands for. Stands for nothing, but for him it works.

Surely it won't take away his creativity, but you want to criticize him on that point as well, baselessly I'll add.

Not that he forces it on your, because you haven't seen the movie. Not that the movie's theme is anti-catholic, because you haven't see the movie.

How about Pulp Fiction, a movie that made the top 100 movie list, one that already been seen and your kid is much more likely to see than "the satanic Golden Compass"?

How about that movie?

How about Bonnie & Clyde 1967. You know the true story of two people who go around and senselessly kill others.

Ok one more fantasy flick.

How about if we ban mother fu*king king kong. That'll teach hollywood. You know these fantasy flicks, especially the ones about a gigantic 1933 monkey rampaging a city, they might force kids to re-think their belief in God.

It's sundae folks, they let me out of the nutter butter house.

I also don't think "faith" is buying into the idea that we need or should support religions leading fake safeguards against potentially different or even, heaven forbid, opposing viewpoints, directly or indirectly, through fantasy storytelling.

If you believe in the bible either directly, indirectly, as absolute fact, more or less fact, or maybe just good wisdom and the best way to live your life, or maybe not even the bible but another gospel (work of the word of God) that's groovy.

Why if those words and notions are so strong and sentimental are you afraid of being corrupted by a fantasy film, which tells a fantasy story, and one in which the author, though in his concept of the world, believe opposite facts, tells his story through the eyes and mouths of a storyteller, not a prophet?

Maybe if you need or feel the need support a boycott over something as trivial and sentimental as a fantasy movie, which has a golden compass truth telling device you should reexamine your own faith. Check to see if it is as strong as you believe it to be. Maybe it need more shoring up then this movie need boycotting.

Please don't go the route of telling me I'm spouting evil by challenging you. I've already done my good and bad deed for today.

We're taking our children to see it. We got three free tickets with a LOTR DVD set we bought.

It looks to me like a fun, entertaining, epic children's movie. Fantasy is fantasy.

I don't think it's wrong for other parents to fret over this movie if they want, but for my family a) my children have a strong sense of fantasy (TV, movies, video games) and reality and we're all agnostic, haha.

Again with this crap?

Yeah, let's shelter everyone from everything that might cause them to think differently.

Here's a thought: If a movie about polar bears wearing armor can totally topple your religious belief system then you might have more problems than you realize.

~Zoo

That is pretty much the crux of it... but watching a movie about polar bears wearing armor instead of reading your Bible probably is not the best course of action.

"Here's a thought: If a movie about polar bears wearing armor can totally topple your religious belief system then you might have more problems than you realize."

LOL.

Satanic, evil, atheistic. Yup, scary stuff.

"That is pretty much the crux of it... but watching a movie about polar bears wearing armor instead of reading your Bible probably is not the best course of action."

Why not, because the bible is better fantasy than a talking polar bear wearing a full plate?

You know, zoologist, there's two sides to the coin here. On the one hand, I'm glad the Catholic League is educating people about this movie. It contains themes some parents might not appreciate, and it allows parents to not go in blindsided.

While my kids won't be seeing this movie at this point, I actually see the benefit of it, and acknowledge its appropriate place. There's simply no reason the domain of fairy stories or fantasy should be exclusive to religion, as it doesn't represent the values of every parent out there. My children watch many different series of movies (Lemony Snicket, Narnia, and they are looking forward to the Spiderwick Chronicles), but if it's not a book series that draws their interest, it's not worth wasting valuable movie money to go see. They're still at the age where we have a limited censorship on what they read, although the oldest is gradually moving past that age.

The simple thing I would tell parents is, if you're not going to see this movie, don't see it. If you're going to see this movie, by all means, don't let me stop you .

I strongly believe parents have a right to educate their children to their values, Dan, and I'm fairly sure that's another area where we agree. I don't think there's a right or wrong position on this one for parents. I, for one, am glad there's discussion on it, and I may screen the movie at some point for appropriateness for my children if it draws any interest whatsoever, but I don't like being pressured to see it any more than I like being pressured not to.

I have found many gems through the lists of "condemned" movies/TV shows that I have genuinely enjoyed and liked, but I have found just as much garbage. The bulk of it (Harry Potter, and Lemony Snicket, for instance) usually finds its way to the "neutral" pile as material I neither support nor condemn.

How many times do you people read the Bible? You could probably wrap that up in a year and that's only reading sparingly.


Personally, I think fully armored polar bears are a little more interesting then working my way through a dusty(and quite boring) tome.



I see a movie much as I see any other piece of art or writing. Different interpretations for different people. I don't like to let another group of people tell me exactly what something means. I'd have to see it for myself.

A small blurb about some material in the film- magic, polar bear warriors, or whatever then that's fine if you don't want your kids to see it. I'm just a little disappointed on the whole boycott mentality. If you don't want your kids to see a movie, don't let them see it...but it hardly calls for a boycott. It's not like the movie is called, "Satanic Virgin Sacrifice in Gorey Bloody Detail with Occasional Rape and Instructions on Summoning Demons"...perhaps a movie like that I could see getting a little pissed over. Something called the "The Golden Compass" really doesn't spell out the condemnation of Christianity in my book.

I just think people overreact sometimes. Catholics can be pretty uptight...so I suppose it's understandable.

~Zoo

"Catholic League is educating people about this movie."

Education is one thing, boycotts are not educational, they are censorship. They are free to do as they wish, but spreading the word of God is education, Telling others what to think, based on a perception is not. Suggesting a parent deny their children/family exposure to certain entertainment is not education.

Had the Catholic League chosen to take the path of opening discussion about the movie, from a more philosophical perspective, used the metaphor and false wisdom, the fantasy in general, to explain and reinforce why the Churchs' own dogma makes more sense. They might have succeeded more in what their goal is.

Frankly, telling teenagers not to try drugs, not to have sex, not to read certain books, not to watch certain movies, is much more likely to have the opposite effect, on their target market, "the children".

Just because you don't let your kids see the movie in your presence, doesn't meant when they are with a group of friends, they won't tell you one thing and see another lol. Again, DUH.

"I strongly believe parents have a right to educate their children to their values, Dan, and I'm fairly sure that's another area where we agree."

Not only a right, but a responsibility, yes we absolutely agree.

"but I don't like being pressured to see it any more than I like being pressured not to."

I agree with that too. Don't get me wrong, I don't intend to see the move, I just noticed this controversy both in the workplace from a flier and from religious flier, I thought given the marketing I'm exposed to daily, there must be some great cause for a boycott, being that this whole "Beware the Golden Compass" message made it through my mental marketing interceptor/decipher. I'm not hawking the movie, only trying to suggest people make their own decisions, rather then let some league akin to a poker league or bowling league decide what's a good choice for your family to view on the big screen.

I certainly am pressuring no-one to see the movie. If anything rent it on video, much cheaper, I don't even watch movies in the theater. Money better spent elsewhere.

At one point, there was some great controversy about Harry Potter, like that's a big deal right? I wonder if when the Hardy Boys first printed if some nutjob Catholic led a boycott against it too for whatever reasons they needed to rally a cause against.

"I don't like to let another group of people tell me exactly what something means. I'd have to see it for myself."

You know and that's just it, my whole message right there. Please for the sake of your own sanity and expanded horizons, don't let a boycott stop you from letting the story take a few hours of fantasy. The whole goal of the movie theater is to take people away from their real world troubles and immerse in a good story, told in a short time.

"I just think people overreact sometimes. Catholics can be pretty uptight...so I suppose it's understandable."

If you think Catholics are uptight, have you heard what Muslims do to teachers who name teddy bears Muhammed?

I formally name this thread, Muhammed, there come get me Islam. I'm ready for ya. I'm feeling so infidelish today.

Dan Greene writes:



As I said before, whose truth? Is a fantasy movie that blasphemes God truth? Is atheism truth?



Yes, educating people about the movie is exactly what the the League is doing. The League has educated us to the fact that the movie blashemes God, denegrates Christianity and promotes atheism TO CHILDREN.

Based upon this, the Catholic League is alerting parents by suggesting that we boycott the film.

OK, we get your point...you'd do things differently..

The Catholic League has a mission and a goal...as far as I'm concerned, on this issue, it's done an "A one" job in bringing awareness to the blasphmous, anti-Christian nature of the film.

I agree with and support the call for the boycott...all Christians should stay away from this film. Christians are "of the world", but not to be "in the world" ..we are to avoid those things in the world which are physically threatening, morally threatening and spiritually threatening.