Frogboy Frogboy

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

96,520 views 522 replies
Reply #152 Top
simply put a SEVERE cap on ALL non-subscribers,


Yes, that would help quite a bit...

Maybe something like 10-15Mb... What say you?
Reply #154 Top
Yep EH, exactly...a lot of sites have that as a business model. Look at http://www.fileplanet.com
Reply #155 Top
simply put a SEVERE cap on ALL non-subscribers, this way skins are still free...but only subscribers will download them. Setup monthly, maybe a 6-month subscription, even weekly subscriptions...and that is the only way to download stuff.


Hmm it would mean people would simply buy one week and download massive amount, making things worse. People definely would leave here too. There's free skin sites out there too.

Hey whats current rate on bandwidth? one buck per MB or what? How about setting per mb charge to some small amount ( but probiably higher than current charges ) so basically, more you download, you pay more. First 50 mb is free as before.
Reply #156 Top
Forget the weekly subscripts'... 6month maybe...

A one year one at $12 (or thereabout) might be good...

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Reply #157 Top
User ID:221427 ,never posted before but been here for a while too. I plan on getting a subscription by next week. I have been using OD for about 2 years now, definitely one of the few things on the net worth paying for. I will say that a bigger premium skin suite for subscribers would help out. It's really the only reason I have never bought a subscription to Wincustomize but I will now because it's needed and it's worth it.
There should be a way to use Paypal to pay (or take donations) and a way to buy subscriptions for your friends. Which brings me to another point, tell your friends about Object Desktop and Wincustomize and that it is NOT "free". OD is a little hard to explain to the wife each year, but she agreed right away to the Wincustomize because now SHE is getting into it. $20 for 2 years! Heck we paid $20 for a Yankee Candle! I bet it won't last 2 years!
As for expecting 500 subscriptions right away it's not that easy. Most people expect someone else to do it, then will be the first to complain when it is changed due to the fact no one paid for it to support the freeloaders (for lack of a better word). I do believe you will get it done.
And yes this IS the wrong time of year for $. We have twin 7 month old girls and an 11 year old (whose birthday is this month, more $), my wife has been out of work since March so money is tight but I will get the $20 together. Just do it.
And for you youngsters whose parents are wary about credit cards on the net, it's at least as safe as using them in a store. Ask them if they remember when cards were imprinted on that carbon paper and they signed it and left a copy with the cashier. A COPY of the card....all the #'s , name and a SIGNATURE left in a register. Sound safe? How many times did they get their #'s stolen in that worst case scenario? Or ask them to get a card with a $500 limit or so.
Anyways I have rambled on long enough I just want to say thanks Stardock, Wincustomize, the skinners and everyone helping out. Merry Christmas everyone!
Reply #158 Top
To start with, all skinners won't be charging for everything they upload. It takes about 2 months to do a complete suite ( WB, icons, cursor, wall, logon, WMP, sysmetrix and objectdock). That is 10 hrs a day plus most of the weekend.Thats a lot of time to put into a hobby, plus the investment in software. So I think it would be nice if they could recoop some of the money they have laid out. Just my thoughts.



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Reply #159 Top
you think that's a good idea? sure it is will save WC lotta money , how many 2 milion(rounded) users will stay? they will soon go look for another community and the bandwidth is not so high anymore.
Reply #160 Top
how many 2 milion(rounded) users will stay? they will soon go look for another community


And what will they find there? Nothing...this is THE place for skins...
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Reply #162 Top

Kona, I think you should see a doctor about your contradiction affliction.

Sometimes I can't believe you're an adult. I wouldn't even give you 12 years of age.
Anyway, I'm growing tired of you, as a few people here do as well, I'm sure. Why don't you just move all your opinion postings to the ThemeXP website. I'm sure they'd love to hear it. They have forums there too you know.

Reply #163 Top
Maybe we should PAY Kona to use our WB skins...


Well currently I am using windowblinds with the Christmas theme installed.
Reply #164 Top
I will be going into my 3rd year of OD subscription in Jan and will reup for WC Subscription in May.

I understand that I have done my part and this is primarily focused on non-subscribers, but I don't want to see WC go down the toilet because people will take a free ride and ride it for all it's worth.

I have started purchasing cool stuff from the WC Store, and even when I have bought everything up, I would even donate a little here and a little there to keep doing my part. I love this place too much to even consider otherwise. No other site even comes close to what the Admins here have provided for us(well there was Skinz.org...but everyone knows that story...). Thats why this is home to me.

The ride will continue, till someone puts on the brakes...IMHO



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Reply #165 Top
Sir Hus,Whats the difference between 5$ for a premium suite(of which you may not even use all of)and 1$ for an individual premium skin?There will allways be good free skins,some produced by the same people that make the premium stuff.Sounds cheaper to me to be able to buy ala-cart.

.I would eventually attemt to turn proffessional anyway,if I didnt I would have to stop skinning or produce very little.If Wincustomise were to implement this option,I would benefit from their massive exposure vs. starting my own fledgeling site(which I still plan to do).

.Do you really mean to say that skinners shouldnt be compensated anything for their efforts?I'm currently unemployed after 17 years of being self-employed.I NEED to find a way to make money doing something.Why not something I enjoy?Skinning up intil now has just been for fun and honing my PS skills till I felt I was good enough to turn professional,I think I'm nearing that point.

.So my point is this,if I cant sell skins occasionally and I have to quit...the net result is the same .No more skins produced(or very few).

.On the other hand,if I can generate some revenue from skinning,I can afford to produce some freebies to feed the fire.Still results in the same amount of free stuff,but one way I get something and another I dont.So you can see why I would be behind such a scheme.I can certainly see why others would not.
Reply #166 Top
Kona, I think you should see a doctor about your contradiction affliction.Sometimes I can't believe you're an adult. I wouldn't even give you 12 years of age.Anyway, I'm growing tired of you, as a few people here do as well, I'm sure. Why don't you just move all your opinion postings to the ThemeXP website. I'm sure they'd love to hear it. They have forums there too you know.


And I think you should not use personal attacks on the message board.

If I bother you so be it. Just ignore me.

No one forces you to read my posts. >
Reply #167 Top

WOM, premium suites is fine. But opening the possibility to start charging individual skins or objects isn't right IMO. You can expect all good authors to start charging, and all that'll be left is the lesser good ones.

Here is a quote of Frogboy's post:`

1) Any skin author with journeyman or higher, when they upload a skin, icon package, theme, or wallpaper can set a check to have it become premium. It would cost $1.99 to $3.99 to purchase depending on what it was. The skin author would receive 25%.  It would be a 1 click type purchase.

WinCustomize subscribers would get a 50% discount on the prices. It would help skin authors get compensated for their skins, help encourage better skinning, and give new skinners a goal - to climb up the ladder to become a Journeyman.  And it would help WinCustomize.  Users, on the other hand, would likely find that many skins that were "free" were now not free anymore.

He didn't say suites, he said "skin, icon package, theme, or wallpaper"...
I don't agree with that.  Of course, it's just an idea, and may not get implemented, but I'm just voicing my opinion about it.


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Reply #168 Top
"Maybe that is why I do not download them here."" I use style XP hence I get my skins at Themexp""...Well currently I am using windowblinds with the Christmas theme installed. ".......Kona you never fail to disappoint.

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Reply #169 Top
OK OK OK lets get this sorted. I mostly use Style XP but they did not have any good Christmas themes so I loaded up my Windowblinds and DL'ed the Christmas theme.

But that is beside the point.

WHAT GIVES ANY OF YOU PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO YELL AT ME AND POKE FUN?

Give it a rest.
Reply #170 Top
here we go again ........
Reply #171 Top
Come on Guys, Just cut it out please?

I hate it when people start arguing here >



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Reply #172 Top

Who is yelling ehre, Kona.

You are annoying, that's all. Like a fly that keeps buzzing around...

Reply #173 Top
well OK if thats how you think of me so be it I care not.
Reply #174 Top
I only wish that there were more premium skins for people to download if they were a wincustomize subsriber. I for one would have made Mormegils Christmas Time skin a premium skin. If a susbricption had more to offer then just supporting the site(and a few other little things) more people would buy. Many people aren't that caring and could give a farts wind to what happens to this site.
Reply #175 Top
make it so...
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