Frogboy Frogboy

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

96,744 views 522 replies
Reply #126 Top
Ok back to my question about themexp.org and Wincustomize.com. How can a community like themexp.org survive all these time without subscriber? I know the money to pay for TXP is from stylexp and also stardock is paying for WC. But does that mean stylexp gets more money from its product than SD?
Reply #127 Top

It'll be all about band-width....just how big a pipe is needed to service the users.

The salient point is just how many megs of skins, etc are being downloaded from either site per second/minute/hour.....and that'll be a product of the average file size multiplied by downloader numbers.

I remember seeing at Customize.org their stats for the most ever members logged on....I think it was 121 [something like that]....currently as I type we have 888 and that's just a typical, not a max...

Reply #128 Top
Paxx is right about subscribers having access to more premiumskins,at least give them say 10 free ones.If you charged a dollar a skin,then they would automatically have saved half on a subscription.Wincustomize gets the new customer,helping to promote new sales of Stardock products,which in turn creates a demand for more skins from the artist.Sounds like win win win to me.You could still offer subscribers discounts on future selections as an added bonus.
Reply #129 Top
Well here is the way I see it:

If you go to a department store like say Target and buy a DVD for 10 bucks, you are happy with the purchase and go home happy.

You then go back a few months later and Target has raised the price to 20 bucks when another stoer has 2 for 20 bucks.

Point being, you start charging for things here and I PROMISE this site will fail. I myself will not pay for skins when I can find them elsewhere for free. Maybe that is why I do not download them here.
Reply #130 Top
I, for one, have purchased everything available (all premium suites, OD, Wincustomize subscription, etc...) in order to pay my dues. I use only one stardock product (CursorXP), but I feel my purchases here have been worth every penny!!! I will continue to support this site by purchasing future products and subscriptions. Should it come to paying for individual skins, I have no problem with that either (although I won't actually use them). I won't miss the freeloaders one bit.

I brought up a question about a year ago as to how I would go about buying a subscription for someone else and did not receive any constructive responses...so I didn't pursue it further. I would have purchased at least 5 of them for friends during the last year. I'll ask again, how would I go about it?

I want to buy 5 of them right now (for a few of the younger, less financially able - in no way meant in a derogatory fashion - members of this fine community). I will not use PayPal, though...(they're theives...plain and simple - ask me about my nightmare with them sometime). I would purchase these tonight (via credit card) if I were able. Can someone help?

Stefan



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Reply #131 Top
Who really cares if the cheap ones leave WC.com? The serious skinners will stay, others will fall away - either way is fine, and either way the show must go on - so to speak...

It doesn't matter what's right, what's wrong, what's moral, what's necessary etc etc etc.. Just go with the flow people - purchase a subscription or two, or zip the 'ol yapper because you haven't "earned" the right to spout off. [ps, this isn't directed at any one person, just people in general]

take care!
Reply #132 Top
Kona...we're not talking about charging for everything,just a few premium works.If a skin is a premium skin,you wont find it anywhere else for free unless someone rips it.There will still be plenty of good free skins.As much as I enjot skinning ,it is a lot of work.You would know that if you had ever tried to make a WB or WMP skin.(not to mention Icon packages,whew!)Come back when you've done more than cut and paste a few company logos.

.What if the site fails because it didnt try to charge for a few things?Would you be happier then?
[Message Edited]
Reply #133 Top
I brought up a question about a year ago as to how I would go about buying a subscription for someone else and did not receive any constructive responses...so I didn't pursue it further. I would have purchased at least 5 of them for friends during the last year. I'll ask again, how would I go about it?



hehe..I stopped by to ask this too, looks like ya beat me to it. I've asked before, also asking again. I can think of 2 or 3 gift subscriptions I'd get right off the bat myself. On a couple of other sites I'm on, you can buy gift memberships for other members, anon or not. It's pretty popular actually. Would be great if this could be done here.
Reply #134 Top
Peff....email [email protected]  ...I'm sure she'd be able to help you with that.  [I'm not a Stardock employee so am unsure of the mechanics involved]...
Reply #135 Top
Peff: Write to [email protected] for more info. Ask for Kim. She can help you with that. You'll need your CC info and the name, addresse and e-mail of the person you are giving it to.
Reply #136 Top
Hehe. These days it seems to be Kim, Jafo. I have done it myself today
Reply #137 Top
I was just one second too late
Reply #138 Top
No prizes for second, Matthijs....but you're probably right....I was just suggesting a contact....
Reply #139 Top
Thanks guys...will do....Actually just saw Karmagirls contest thread...might be more fair for me to add to the contest prizes...in any case...It will bump the drive stats up!!



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Reply #140 Top
In that case inform KarmaGirl first. Use the e-mail Jafo gave. Afteral she's the one organizing it.
Reply #141 Top
I've just emailed KarmaGirl with a similar proposal, to add a gift subscription to her contest winnings.
Reply #142 Top
hmmmm, sad...I would buy a subscription, but my mom wont put her credit card on the net
Reply #143 Top
It seems that the point intended has branched out to a few irrelevant issues.
The way I have followed Brad's original post is.

1- The site is going thru a tough time because not enough monetary contribution is being made.

2- Those that have already made the contributions have done their share and are not required or obligated to make additional purchase of subscriptions (unless they choose to purchase extra subscriptions as gift for family members/friends)

3- Nobody is obligating anyone to make any purchase. If a person does not have the money to purchase a subscription, simply don’t purchase it. If a person has funds and is willing to help by purchasing a subscription, then by all means do it.

4- The post was intended to serve as a notification of how and where the site stands and to encourage those that visit and are non-subscribers to help out by purchasing a subscription IF and ONLY IF they have the funds to do it.

5- Giving the circumstances and in the worst case scenario, the site will have to seek ways to stay afloat, therefore the options of charging for some things that up to now have been free will seriously be taken under consideration.

I like the way the site is right now and I wouldn’t like to see it morph into the options given by Brad, so I've made my contribution.
For $20 I get more satisfaction from uploading and downloading the wonderful designs of my fellow artist than I get from a lot of things on which I expend far more than $20
So, if you have $20 to spare make the contribution, if you don’t have $20, then try to help out to keep everything as is.

Just my 2 cents.
Reply #144 Top
Try a money order.
Reply #145 Top

#129 by Kona0197 - 12/10/2003 7:14:20 PM
Point being, you start charging for things here and I PROMISE this site will fail. I myself will not pay for skins when I can find them elsewhere for free.
 

No, the site won't fail, and you don't pay for anything now................ 

Maybe that is why I do not download them here.

Now that's just silly, skins are presently free.......have you found some place where you can download skins for less? 





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Reply #146 Top
Now that's just silly, skins are presently free.......have you found some place where you can download skins for less?


I use style XP hence I get my skins at Themexp
Reply #147 Top
This is from the FAQ:

Q: I don’t have a credit card. How can I purchase Stardock software?

A: We also accept checks or money orders in US funds (no Eurocheques, please, as they are not certified funds). Please print and use the order form at https://www.stardock.com/order.txt (also found in the directories of Stardock’s shareware products) and mail with payment to:

Stardock Systems, Inc.
17292 Farmington Rd.
Livonia, MI 48152
USA

Visit http://cnnfn.cnn.com/markets/currencies/ for current information on exchange rates.
Reply #148 Top
/me things Koasati is funny.



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Reply #149 Top
Maybe we should PAY Kona to use our WB skins...
Reply #150 Top
I am a subscriber of this site. I love this place...it gives me a reason to go online every day. After using ODNT, I will NEVER use a PC without it...they are great produts, this site supports those products, and I use them every hour of every day...so I became a subscriber. I agree with what Frogboy said, leeches who just download without giving back is just not fair. If you owned a candy store and let all the kids steal from you...soon enough you're out of business. I don't however, like the idea of selling skins on an individual basis. This will drive me away from the site because I will be unlikely to purchase them. If all the good authors are doing this (which why wouldn't they?)...what purpose will I have left? I will be stuck with great software and mediocre skins. It is a very annoying having to charge $0.99 or $1.99 to my credit card everytime I want a skin. I don't mind buying a suite of skins for $5.00 or whatever. I bought PixOS, Orion Icons and a few other things too. These things were released as "Premium" skins, which they are. If we went from one or two premium skins a month to 100 or 200, that is a very big difference. I have a small suggestion to better suit people like me...instead of chaging for skins...simply put a SEVERE cap on ALL non-subscribers, this way skins are still free...but only subscribers will download them. Setup monthly, maybe a 6-month subscription, even weekly subscriptions...and that is the only way to download stuff. It's a beautiful thing...because once in a blue...you let a good skin out the bag as a freebie to entice all non-subscribers. I would much rather have that sort of scenario than having to buy skins for $1.00.

Just my two cents...