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My rant -Is there REALLY a skin "community"?

My rant -Is there REALLY a skin "community"?

I have been part of virtual communities for the past 15 years. I know what they are. I started out in the BBS world and we had a local area virtual community. It didn't have a name but we were all literally tied together by what was in the local phone exchange.

When the Internet came, I considered myself part of a larger community, the OS/2 community.

A community isn't necessarily homogenous but what makes something a "community" is the sense that it exceeds a certain threshold of closeness and that the majority of the participants have the same basic concept of what that community is.

But is there a "Skinning" community? I think not. Rather, there are several smaller communities with very distinct concepts of what that community is. I think there is a skeletal structure for a general skinning community but really, the communities are largely tied to the sites.

I think there is a Stardock community. And I think there is a WinCustomize community. I also think there is a DeviantART community as well as communities for each site. And I think there is some overlap.

But the overlap between these communities is often little to non existent in my opinion.

There is constant bickering over what actually IS the community. And I think a lot of that comes from such a diverse set of demographics. Look at the demograhpics of this site compared to say Customize.org. The average active participant here can legally drink alcohol in all states in the US and they have full time jobs.

When Skinz.org was at its height, I think there was an overall community, albeit a small one.

But I've become increasing frustrated, well let me be blunt, disgusted with certain parallel universe versions of the skin community. You have the anti-capitalists (I.e. "I haven't personally spent any real time contributing for the past year but I want to say that everything should be free! Rock on!"). You have the group that contributes some but does so out of ego-gratification (I.e. "I've done some modest work over the year and want to let you know that I"m king of the community and I will crush all those who oppose me! Worship me!"). I don't know which contigency is worse.

The former is definitely in full loudness this week in that Customize.org discussion on whether skin suites should be free or not.

And it really highlights this post's point - there is no single skin community. There are many competing visions. If I wrote a post "What do you think of people charging for skin suites" I think it's safe to say that the response would be overwhelmingly "Good for them!" here. But elsewhere you get the folks who think that it's okay for skin SITES to make money off of the work of skin authors but that skin authors should work for free. Skin authors are apparently to be slaves in this vision, slaves to skin sites who profit from their efforts.

I have gotten a real kick out of the "free beer" folks who have criticized WinCustomize because it's a "corporate site" (even though the most of the other sites are, just that in this case, our parent company is a software developer) yet this site has no banner ads, no pop ups, etc. I think it's GOOD for skin sites to make money. I think it's GOOD for them to have banner ads and whatever else they need to generate income. The difference though is that people, whoever they are, shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that selling a good or service is bad yet banner ads and pop up ads are okay. In all cases, the entity in question is trying to generate revenue to pay for those expenses.

My friend Jark took grief because he has set up a subscription service. Unbelievable. Grief from people who have contributed zilch. My friends Treetog/Alexandrie/Nuvem are taking grief because they want to charge a measely $10 in exchange for around TWENTY skins. My lunch cost more than $10 today. And of course, we're always taking grief from those who argue our software is free or that our software is doomed to be passed up by free alternatives (note to them: WB's kicking ass, people who can afford WB are choosing it over free alternatives).

Which brings me back to the beginning, there is no such thing as a single skin community. There are merely a confederation of communities, each thinking that they have the vision of what the skin community is.

I for one am thankful every day that this site, our news groups (check out news://news.stardock.com) have such wonderful cool people. I am thankful that many of the leaders of the other skin sites are so cool (I talk to Jark regularly, Scarebear is a great guy, and Chaz and I chat on IRC regularly and is a great guy too). But the events of the past few months have led me to basically stop caring what the other bitter nasty contigents think. At least in the sense of letting it dictate our actions.

Let the "free beer" folks complain and yell. Those who actually contribute are the ones whose opinions matter to me.

When we first started this site we took a lot of grief from the "free beer" folks and they eventually migrated elsewhere. I'm glad. I'm not interested in them. I don't consider them part of the community we all, together, have helped create. What we call that community doesn't matter. But it's our community. Created with care, kindness, and hard work. With people who respect each other and each other's efforts and are generous in heart. Ethically strong yet not overly judgemental of others. You guys are the type of people I want to be around. To be associated with.

Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Feel free to add yours.
39,110 views 121 replies
Reply #51 Top
emily: nah, the really childish behaviour is at customize.org. Go there, read the threads - frogboy had a lot to say.
Reply #53 Top
Disclaimer: I work for the "evil" stardock.

Shoggot, what you say about DesktopX is very insulting. Alberto, developer of VDE and the lead developer of DesktopX has publicly stated many times that DesktopX is not based on VDE. DesktopX was started from scratch and he used knowledge he accumulated during its development on DesktopX. Being one of the people at Stardock who has spent the past 2 years of my life working on DesktopX with Furan, Brad, Kris, Alex and others, you demonstrate just how little you know about Stardock or its software.

It is you that is trying to rewrite history. VDE is still out there. You can download it and compare the two for yourself. There is very little in common. Several people like me have spent 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for the last 2 years on it and it's sold for only $20. Your words and insulting and you should apologize.
Reply #54 Top
Shoggot, I have skimmed the article in question. It is too long to write in full but I did read some of what Frogboy wrote and what you wrote.

I have concluded that you are so blindly self righteous that you are incapable of seeing how offensive and arrogant your writings come across.
Reply #55 Top
Anyone who chooses freeware as an issue of "principle" either needs their head examined or needs to get a job. I use whatever works best that I can afford. If Stardock charged $3000 for Object Desktop then eFX might look tempting. But Object Desktop is $50 and I get everything I need to do a complete make over of my system with regular updates and good support.
Reply #56 Top
OMG - you people calling shoggot self-righteous?!
I think i've seen it all now - take a look around at yourselves. Just because we don't agree with your ideals, doesn't make us knuckle-dragging neanderthals. Im outta here now, I probably should'nt have ventured back anyhow, i should have learnt my lesson the first time. I'll leave you wholesome people in your sterile bubble of purity and goodness, and scuttle back to the seedy underbelly of the web with my misplaced, unorthodox ideals - and i'll try not to soil your holy ground again.....
Reply #57 Top
It seems the difference between rousing discussion and out+out flaming lays on whether you're trying to get others to understand your views, as apposed to just trying to score points in a debate, and out+out insult others.

Some have really shown their true colors, and the only real points they score are ones that degrade their value in terms of how the majority of the general community views them.

Try not to let obvious anti-bias's impair your abilty to intelligently reason through a discussion.
Reply #58 Top
integer i read your posts on customize just now and i had sometimes seen your posts on devart. you are very self rightous. your so blind to it that you don't see it. i just like to make my comp look cool. you and like minded ones discriminate against ones that aren't free.
Reply #59 Top
Oooh, this is getting interesting.

/me explains to the newbies

Verona Desktop Enhancer, for those that don't know, was a predecessor of DesktopX. It was shareware, not freeware and the guy who did it later joined Stardock where he worked (and works probably) on DesktopX. While it's homepage may be dead, you can still find it floating around the Net.
Reply #60 Top
/me says thanks for that clarification for the newbies
hehe


carry on...
Reply #61 Top
OK JayG - would you like to point out where I've discriminated against an app that isn't free, simply because of the fact that it's not free?

I'll be waiting....
Reply #62 Top
It is truly sad to see Shoggot completely altering history just to try to paint Stardock in a negative light. I wonder if Shoggot realizes how hurtful his comments are to us who work at Stardock.

What Stardock usually does is fit the project with the person and it prefers to work with people who are already in the community. Shoggot has twisted this into being a bad thing. DesktopX was in the original Object Desktop specificiation from 1997, it needed a lead developer. Stardock brought on Alberto to lead that team instead of just hiring someone who hadn't been part of the skinning scene.

I hope Shoggot snaps out of whatever spell he is under and realizes how irrational some of his statements and allegations are. Stardock has been a real innvoator and has done a lot for the community. This site's existence, which is a drain on resources, should be proof.

It is a lot like those political debates when people try to say that the United States is evil and that none of its actions were good. Just because an action is in its self interest doesn't make it morally wrong.
Reply #63 Top
Speaking of evil...
____

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'

[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Your transaction (process ID #19) was deadlocked with another process and has been chosen as the deadlock victim. Rerun your transaction.

/include/inc_msgboard.asp, line 409
____

"Deadlock" is seriously bad, right? I feel "victimised".
Reply #65 Top
"A deadlock is a situation in which two computer programs sharing the same resource are effectively preventing each other from accessing the resource, resulting in both programs ceasing to function."

source: http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci211913,00.html
Reply #66 Top
lemme guess your on your p75? and have not enough resources??? is that it? =/
Reply #70 Top
I think Alexandrie just put up the Christmas theme.
Reply #71 Top
This one explains what happened: searchDatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci757279,00.html
Reply #73 Top
Look, all I'm saying is that they need to explain what the midichlorians are. That's all.
Reply #74 Top
They don't, but thankfully there's Google:
http://www.greyjedi.net/archives/midichlorians.html
Reply #75 Top
so what happened is that it is of course "not" your P75's fault but rather it is the fault of Alex uploading this X-mas theme,
which I'm looking at now and it is nice, but the white msg board bg is blinding! but still very cool! nice work Alex!!!!!!