Also, I want to add how happy I am with how this discussion is turning out.  Two years ago it would have been filled with screaming, complaining and foot stomping, and little rational discussion.  There are a lot of great ideas in this thread (and more to come, I'm sure) that I will be keeping in mind when we next revise how the galleries work. 

USED to go on???? Do you think it still doesn't go on? I can assure you it does. B[]

After reading some responses (especially Po's) I guess I should clarify too.....

I prefer the old style of moderation.
I do however, like the idea of sending non-approved submissions to the personal pages.

Maybe the next site rendition could have a "Personal Page of the Day" to highlight those with substantial galleries. Have it automated so an individual could request being highlighted and that would add him to the que.

Personal issues............
I don't like seeing ten variations of the same wallpaper even if it's good. If all you do is change the color, add or remove a logo, orb, dolphin or Britney, include all variations in the same submission.

If you offer multiple sizes of a wall, put them ALL into one submission.

I appreciate what you and the other mods go through. Honestly. I've had stuff rejected and, like I have said before, it's pushed me to try harder. On a few rejections, I went back over and tweaked and such. I haven't had a problem with rejections. My frustration has been in trying to be better.

I don't know, on your end, if it would be easier just to reject the bad walls as opposed to sending them to the personal gallery. I wouldn't want to make your job or any mods job harder. I just feel that the personal gallery option is a 'good' option, especially for noobs. Complete rejections are tough. They hurt. But that aside, without 'explanations' for the rejections (Acknowledging that the mods do not have the time to explain each and every decision) the person may become discouraged and stop. By putting it in the personal gallery, you're giving them a 'bar'. It's like saying "You almost had it. Keep trying."

I think that would be helpful and 'hopeful' to a lot of noobs and anyone dabbling in wallpapers/skinning for the first time.

I hadn't thought it was an either/or thing...

Acknowledging that to a degree, wallpapers are a matter of taste, there clearly is a scale of acceptability.

Does returning to a position that takes a firmer grip on the balance of styles entering the gallery, mean that unsuccessful entries would no longer go to personal pages?

Believe it or not, mods have to put their personal feelings aside.  If they didn't, not much would ever get through.  Putting to the PP or to the library is the same amount of work.  I like the PP idea.  Like Po said, it tells someone that he just missed and with a little more work he will succeed.  And we do put other things to the PP, not just walls.

I believe that is surely the intent. Yet if you look at two fractals and decide this one is good enough and that one is not good enough, you are surely making a decision reflecting you personal preference. If three other mods agree with you then that is the total of their personal preferences. I do not mean to convey any evil intent here, just the reality of what it is.

I too like the PP idea rather than rejection.

I don't post too often, but I feel like voicing my opinion here. First, I would like to see a page # drop down, so I don't have to navigate each and every page to get to the ones I am watching/considering. This would be good for other areas too. Second, it would be nice to search by size. Thirdly, I would like to see dual/triple screen options. The one screen system is dying. In all honesty, I have been utilizing other websites for the above mentioned. For the most part, Wincustomize seems to be a members only thing. Maybe you should make a public area and a premium area? Thanks to everyone for making my computer life more enjoyable!!!

why are we choosing to let others decide what we like. ???

Simply because too many wallpapers are submitted, they would flood ALL other content off the site.  It would become impossible to find anything else in the newest page list.  Without totally separating wallpapers from the rest of the site, we have to exercise a degree of quality moderation on the main public gallery.

I'm not going to make someone slog through 100 MS paint/clip art/bryce walls to find a single skin, cursor or icon package.

I guess that's another interesting question:

Should we remove wallpapers from the "Newest" and "Recently Updated" pages, and allow them through unmoderated?

I'm not "choosing" to let others decide what I like......I "choose" to let others decide what's appropriate for the Wincustomize library. If they do a bad job, I can go elsewhere. If I so "choose", I can go to DA and wade thru heaps and heaps of garbage to find something I like. I "choose" not to have WC turn into the same kinda site. Even with moderation there are maybe 1 out of 10 walls posted here that "I" like.




exactly what the thread is for.........


edit: guess I was busy typing while Zoomba posted

It's interesting that in every post there will be at least one reply that is able to get to what is commonly called "the point". We don't all have to agree but I think Lantec got to the bottom line.   

Yea. I don't know. hehe.. I'm not quite as active anymore - so I can vouch only for times when I was really active.

"So I thought this week we'd put it to an actual vote. Let everyone voice their opinion on how they would like wallpaper moderation to be handled. " If memory serves me well, (and often it does not ), it was the WC/SD desire to expand the acceptance level to make the site more friendly and encourage new participation. We were given many reasons for this and it was the desire to make it easier for people to participate in the community. At the time, there were many voicing negative reactions to this relaxed approval procedure. Is SD/WC second questioning itself concerning this decision ? Is this a real "vote"? or just getting a feel for the sense of the community ending with the joke line of "When I want your opinion, I'll tell you what it is".

We're constantly evaluating our moderation policies and what can be done to make the site more welcoming to new artists, and more useful to users.  Periodically I like to get a sense for where the community stands on any given issue.  Wallpapers happen to be a current topic of debate behind the scenes in the Mod forums, and I thought it'd be a good time to toss the question out there to everyone else.

Am I going to do a 180 on policy based purely on the poll results?  Of course not.  What I am going to do is take the results into consideration as I continue to refine site policy, and work to attract more artists to WinCustomize in the future.

My impression of most of the polls here are more liek what I have with my kids when I ask a question like "Where would you like to go for dinner?"  They have an opinion, but not a vote.

I think the discussion around the polls are more useful in situations like this than the poll number themselves.  I mean . .look at the numbers: 180 votes.  As a percentage of the community (even if we refine down to active community) is tiny.  Same with the members posting in this thread.  I recognize all but one user on this page so far, one on page 2, and three on the first page.

So you are showing your opinion in the poll and detailing it here . . . but Zoomba will do what he thinks will get him a Stardock sponsored private island at the end of the day. 

Me . . I want WC to grow.  I want to attract new skinners (and wallpaper artists) and new users.  I want WC to be open and welcoming.  But I don't want it filled with crap either.  Thus . . I opine the following:

1. Personal pages stay and walls can be put there
2. Walls are removed from the newest gallery unless the mods think they are exceptional
3. Walls get their own section ("Newest Walls")
4. Walls with a algorithm based on rating and downloads and comments may migrate to personal pages

/me has spoken . . thus it should be made so. 

I am too dang slow typing (getting all teh spelling correct) and Zoomba sweeps inand steals my thunder.

DAGNABIT!    

I think unmoderated would be a bad idea. But I do think I saw where someone mentioned earlier a second wallpaper gallery. Why not combine the two ideas and make a second wallpaper gallery for those wallpapers that in the current system would only go to the personal pages and then make it so that gallery is not included in the "Newest" and "Recently Updated" pages.

This way the people who dont want to wade through pages of "junk" wont be affected by it at all and those who are interested in checking out everything that is out there and want to form an opinion about it on their own are more easily able to do so without having to go through millions of personal pages.

And this will still let people know that their work, although good enough for themselves and maybe some others, is not quite what Wincustomize is looking for. And also, by watching the number of downloads and ratings these wallpapers in the new gallery get, it would give the moderators a chance to compare their opinions and choices with those of the community.

Thanks Zoomba for the straight up answer. Appreciated. Zubaz, good ideas, but why have #2 if you have #3?

Because the Newest is a great place to go when you hit the site.  And walls are integral to skinning your PC.  Some of the best should be shown of more than the rest.

Interesting. I never go there but rather just go section to section on the right side menu by category. That lets me see the newest things I am interested in by category without wading through things I don't care about. To each his own!

There are galleries I focua on but I hit the newest to see . . well . . . if there is somthing that I don't usually focus on that I should (or could).

It's all about growth for me.

Many interesting opinions here. When I first came to Wincustomize it took a long time to finaly get something posted. It actualy took a e-mail to moderation to find out what I needed to do. They were most helpful, and after many e-mails I finally made it. I am for whatever is best for the Site and the Community,but I do think there should be some sort of quality cut off point.

My suggestion earlier was to allow the rating system decide what would stay... like anything less than a set score would be deleted or sent to the submitters private page after set amount of time to allow the users of the website a chance to rate the submission. I agree with what you say, I mean I have no idea what you guys go though trying to sort everything in the first place... I imagine its daunting task. But wallpapers are very different from any other the others because it shows the artist in his entirety. I would love to see more and the idea of the community deciding what should be presented is an idea that excites me.

Zoomba in regards to your post about the crap thats submitted, I whole heartedly agree with you. I and everyone else who takes this seriously would no doubt not only agree with you but would insist a moderation at this level always be in place and encourage those papers be sent to the submitters personal site.(just so others can see by happenstance what someone did) But i have seen some walls that were rejected in which the person took sometime to create. I think less moderation on this, i think the WC user's should be allowed to rate and decide if it should stay. Have a main gallery and then a gallery inwhich the users rate the skin to decide if it stays or goes. Give each submission a week to get rated... then move it to the main gallery or off the site. Since creating Boot skins, wallpapers and Logons really do take much talent to create anyways, why not do the same for all these... I have seen lame in those galleries.. and would not be suprised of the junk you see on a daily basis. I guess what i am asking is just to let the community have a little more in the process of what should or shouln't be... IMHO