Lulu,
I would not believe anything the Harlot has to say on faith,Lulu,run,run Lulu,the Demons of Universalism are chasing you...
Pastor Terry

first i am not catholic. second i am not predicting a date.

there are four things in history that had to happen.

1 Adam had to eat the fruit of good and evil. although some will agrue that this didn't take place.


2 Christ had to die.


3 Christ had to be resurrected.


4 the Holocaust had to take place. if it hadn't the Jews would never have gone home.

I think this is the root of the problem from the start. It got confusing even more when God's actual words to Jesus got lost and only the writings of his followers partially survived.

It is a shame but that is the way it is.

On the Contrary Lula.

V32: "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD."

You cannot parse this verse apart or else you WILL lose context. Let's back up a bit to Exodus 24:3 which should clarify Jeremiah's context.

"And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. "

Here we have Israel's agreement to the Covenant.

In Deut. 9 we clearly see G-D wroth with anger because they broke the covenant.

I cannot agree with your assessment on this verse in Jeremiah.

TA, I disagree. Here's why. Jesus upheld the Torah and the Tanakh. It was the Oral Law that we see Jesus debunk and IN SOME cases upholding. The only confusion that I see is many Christians start with the back of the book thinking they can understand without first understanding the beginning.

One of the most challenging authors in Scriptures without a doubt is Paul. There are so many scriptures that 'seem' to support the doing away with Torah and others that CLEARLY uphold it. Even Paul acknowledges that the Jews have the advantage in understanding what Jesus did in his sacrifice.

It is Paul's writings that have created confusion not G-D's words to Jesus.

I disagree. It says there will be no one teaching for ALL will know G-D. This is referring to the millennial kingdom here on earth not the Catholic Church.

Daniellost posts: #120




I included this bit of information regarding the Catholic position on predicting the prophecy of Christ's Second Coming because it had bearing on your initial question.

Besides that, while you personlly did/have not predicted a date, I am curious about the Church of the LDS and its position on this.

Lula, at the very root of Catholicism is antisemitism. Now granted I am not saying every Catholic is antisemitic but the root of the religion is. They say that THEY are now the chosen ones and the Jews are no longer because they broke the covenant (as you clearly stated in a previous rebuttal). This in it's very essence is replacement theology as well as antisemitic.

Of EVERYONE that has persecuted the Jews, no group nor nation has persecuted the Jews more than the Catholics. Since it's formalization around Constantine's time they have persecuted and murdered more Jews then any one else. Just take a look at the Inquisition and not just the 'Spanish' Inquisition.

Theological debate aside this is the very basis that Moderate Man wrote this article. I think in many ways you have shown the Catholic church this way and probably didn't even know it.

LW, I have a BA in BS does that count for something?

Adventure-DUDE POSTS:

I agree that Jesus upheld the writing of the Law and the Prophets..and so did St.Paul. There is no contradiction or any doing away with of the Torah. The Torah, aka Pentateuch, is the first five Books of the 73 Books of Sacred Scripture that we have today. Every word of it is Sacred Scripture, the inspired, revealed Word of God. By this we understand that the Books of Scripture teach without error the truths that God intends to reveal for the sake of our salvation.


Sacred Scripture is difficult to understand and interpreting both the Old and New Testament is even moreso. That's where the confusion comes in.

The Old Testament is contained in the New and the New Testament is found in the Old.

So then do you keep Torah?

That "no man knoweth, not even the angels in heaven". That's what it says in scripture, after all . . .

It's like dear old Lucas, with his "Ph.D." Just pathetic, people.

Adventure-Dude Posts:

Frankly, it's not surprising that Catholicism gets the anti-Semitic charge against it AGAIN!


"The root of Catholicism is antisemitism"? Give me a break. If you sincerely believe that then you confirm your lack of knowledge of Catholicism, of history, and of Sacred Scripture.


For example, Sacred Scripture is replete with history of Jewish intoleration, hatred and persecution of the early Christians and the fledgling Church. After all St.Paul was once Saul, a Pharisee and greatest persecuter of the early Christians. This intense persecution continued up until the 70AD and the destruction of Jersualem. Jerusalem and Herod's Temple was destroyed not by Christians, but mostly by Roman pagans.

Oh, yes, the NT recounts that the early Christians had to take evasive action, again and again, "for fear of the Jews".



Catholics say Christians are now the chosen ones becasue Sacred Scripture says it first. And furthermore, Jews are and will always be the first Chosen Ones; there is no changing that for Almighty God is faithful to His promise. It's only since Christ they are not the ONLY Chosen Ones. Believing Gentiles (Christians) are added to the God's family of Chosen ones.

Back to the anti-Semitism (in this case false)charge.

Above, I say it's not surprising, because when you seriously think about it, especially in today's political climate, to criticize the Jews or anything Jewish is to court charges of being called anti-Semitic. This takes us back to MM's initial article.

I've seen this described as "secular Semitism" which has expressed itself in Zionism, liberalism, hatred of Christianity, and now blaming the Church for anti-Semitism.

I am still here and still reading, still enjoying the interchange.

wow whip good catch, I was not going to mention the disconnect, I was going to let it play out.

AD, i dont think you understood what i said. God's ACTUAL words to Jesus got lost somehow, only the writings of Paul and the rest of them remain and these writings are confusing and misrepresent what God actually said to Jesus. Part of the problem is due to translation and the other part is due to misinterpretation of what jesus said.

Thank you TA for the clarification. I will agree with you that we only get bits and pieces of Jesus life and his interaction with G-D. But unlike Moses writings we get an outside perspective and information of what's going on. The problem, as I see it, is that the premise is based upon Matt-Rev and not based upon the Torah and Tanakh with little knowledge of Judaism. The more I study Torah and Tanakh the clearer the NT makes sense to me. So I believe we are in agreement here, TA?

the church more or less says don't worry about when. it will happen when it is supposed to.

and you show a complete bias opinion. I have shown you the scriptures that have been replaced in Catholicism to mean something different that you haven't refuted. Replacement theology IS antisemitic at the very root because it undermines G-D using the Jewish people to be a priestly nation to the world. Here is some quick proof. Obadiah's prophecy mentions about Israel coming back to the land. Note there is not mention of 'Catholic church.'



Paul persecuted the new Messianic believers because he was a Pharisee. Pharisees gave more tribute to the Oral Law (laws written by man)than Torah. Jesus addressed this in Matt 15. Note that Jesus upholds the Torah there.

Also the 1571 Convocation it was argued that the Catholic Church has authority to interpret scriptures and all doctrine had to be consistent (this coming from newadvent.com)



No where in scriptures do I see that NOW the Christians are the chosen ones. Please either give me scriptural reference or retract this statement.

Gentiles were included with Israel as righteous converts. Numbers 15:29 address this. Gentiles were grafted in.



Ok, now you are becoming a nudnick. Look up the bloody definition of antisemitism and you will have your answer.

this is an example of what I mean, they are anti-Semitic and do not even know it.
How it could possibly be conceived that somehow the Christians have become the Chosen people is beyond me, that thought pattern alone shows you the deep rooted belief that they and they alone have supplanted the JEWS, even though no where can they prove it.

Oh no two Jews thinking alike! Gasp! Quick we need two more opinions hehe.

From my studies I suspect this ideology came from Ignatius and Justin Martyr in which their Greek philosophical (I suspect Plato here)learnings was the basis of their interpretation of the NT.

Adventure-DUDE Posts:


Jeremias 31:34 says that "they (biblical Israel) shall teach no more every man his neighbor.." What does this part of Jeremias prophecy mean to you? How do you interpret this?

To me it means that the Lord God is saying through Jeremias' prophecy that the Israelite people shall teach no more of the CEREMONIAL OLd Law. Their exclusive power to teach and share God with the nations was gone forever when the Temple veil was rent at Christ's crucifixation and when Jerusalem and the Temple was destroyed in 70AD. The Israelites went into dispersion at this point. Gone forever, is the sprinkling of blood (Temple sacrifice) for the forgiveness of sins.


I didn't refute the Scriptures you cited because at the time I didn't see it as anything to refute.

First I'll explain Catholic thought on the differences between the OLd and the New Covenant and then on Jews and Judaism and how they are all connected.

The Old Covenant was made through MOses, the New through Jesus Christ. The OC was made only with one people, the NC with all mankind. The OC was made to last for a limited time, the NC will last to the end of time. The OC was sealed with the blood of victims, the NC with the Blood of God made Man ("This is the Blood of the New COvenant (Testament)"; IN the OC, severe laws were made, but the power of observing them was not given by which to observe them and the NC is therefore, called the Covenant of Grace.

The Ten Commandments and the other laws of the OC were a preparation for Jesus Christ. (Gal.3:24). The Isrealites could not perfectly observe those laws which forbade evil desires and feeling this, they came to know there own weaknesses and sinfulness. They saw that they required divine help to do what they ought to do, and to be just in the eyes of the LOrd God. They longed for the promised Savior. But we Christians can, by the NEw Covental grace of Almighty God keep all the COmmandments and use the means of grace.

There are no more barriers. The boundaries were meant to say to the Israelites: You are not worthy on account of your sins to approach the Lord God. Now, the barriers which separate man from ALmighty GOd are removed by Jesus Christ. Through Him, in HIm, and with HIm, we dare now approach the LOrd God. We dare receive Him into our very hearts, and unite ourselves to Him in the closest manner.

Catholic teaching is that all that is basic in the life of the Catholic Church existed, potentially, in Judaism as set forth in the Old Testament.

Catholics believe that Judaism culminates in Jesus Christ, a Christian priesthood, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and Christ's Church, the one, holy, catholic and Apostolic Church.

Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is the predicted Messias; that Christianity is Jewish Jahvehism universalized, and vastly more:

The genealogical priesthood of Aaron has given way to the priesthood without genealogy--the endless priesthood of Jesus Christ according to the order of Mechisedec. The bloody sacrifice, offered up daily in the Temple, has given way to the unbloody Sacrifice of the Holy Mass, predicted by Malachais, 1:11, to be offered up "from the rising of the sun until the going down thereof:"

The Catholic CHurch (born in the Synagogue)is the Messianic Kingdom, the Jewish theocracy restored and universalized. Catholics believe conversion from the Synagogue to the Church means passing from the caterpillar to the butterfly stage of Judaism.

MM posts:

You, MM, are short-changing Catholicism in general and this Catholic in particular.

AD posts:




Old Testament Scripture is replete with references to the House of God, the Church that shall continue forever.

Besides Jeremias 31: 35-36, check out Ezekiel 37:24-26; Psalm 47:4, 9; 71, 88: 3-4, 29, 36, 37;
Isaias 9; 59:19-21; 60: 15-18; 62:11-12; Daniel 2:44.

As for the Church spreading far and near and teaching nations, check out Psalm 2:8; 21:28; Isaias 49:6; 54 and Daniel 2:35, 44 to name a few.