JillUser JillUser

Deism

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Deism

My New Spiritual Home

from JoeUser Forums

I humbly admit that until introduced to the term "Deism" by Myrrander, I had never heard of it.  When Myr set forth that I was deist rather than agnostic, I looked into it and indeed he was right.  Friends had always referred to me as agnostic so I accepted that term for lack of knowing a more fitting term.

I believe there is a God in the sense that there is a creator.  I don't believe there is an organized religion out there that has it right where God is concerned.  I always found organized religions to be too restrictive and circular in thinking.  Whenever anyone says they know what God wants, I cringe.  I believe God is far too complex for us to "know" anything about.

Agnostic wasn't really a bad fit either since I do believe you can neither prove nor disprove the existance of God.  I do know that not all of the organized religions can be right and it is far too exclusive for only one of them to be right.  Say christians have it right.  What happens to the devoted Jews, muslims, hindus, etc?  Is God only choosing some of the population to enlighten?  That doesn't jive with me.

I have noticed in my experience that the most devoutly religious people tend to live the most miserable lives.  I credit this to the fact that if they didn't believe there would be something better for them in the next life, they wouldn't be able to go on each day of this one. 

People say that everything happens for a reason and only God knows the greater purpose.  I don't buy that either.  Sometimes terrible things happen to wonderful people and there is no reason.

If you have your own opinions regarding things that I have brought up, please share them.  However, PLEASE do not come on here and quote scripture or preach to me the error of my ways.  I respect the fact that other people have different beliefs than my own and am interested in how they feel about it but I am done with being told why I am wrong in mine and where in the bible it says I'm wrong.  You can't convince me the bible is God's word by quoting the bible.  That is the circular reasoning that turns me off from organized religion.

So please come here, tell me what you believe, don't believe, or what religion you have faith in but don't preach.  I am so done with that that I will remove scripture quotes and ban you.

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19,764 views 141 replies
Reply #126 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm sure many of the Bible's central messages make better sense when interpreted through Spiritual eyes, rather than through worldly eyes.


Bingo. That's it right there Andy. That's what Jesus kept trying to do. He was constantly trying to take their eyes off the physical and onto the spiritual. The woman at the well was a great example. He used everyday common things to teach about the spiritual world. He used things like water, bread, doors, sheep, etc. I've just spent two years...studying and teaching the book of John and we saw it throughout in this gospel. People need the tangible, and it's hard to "see" the spiritual. Of course I believe it all comes down to the heart issue. God knows who will accept and who will reject.

The same SUN (son) that melts wax.....hardens clay.

I'm thinking I'll write something on truth and include answers to your questions there.
Reply #127 from JoeUser Forums Top
KFC, Here's what you originally said about Lucy

He also said....so I take back what I said earlier....that Lucy was false. Basically what happened is that bones were put together from a large area of dug up bones to make a half human half ape being.


That describes Piltdown man not Lucy. Lucy isn't false. Perhaps as being the missing link but I never agreed with that original assessment anyway. Lucy's bones (what they have of them) are all human not half ape like you had stated. Piltdown man, on the other hand was a fake that used other bones to make it complete. So again, your debating skills are lacking.

You say that there are no homologous sequences or recombination between X and Y chromosomes but this article says differently.


No what I said was this

There is no X chromosome marker that is homologous with a Y chromosome marker that would allow "jumping" that would result in the Y chromosome change required to make a difference in the generations between Noah and the men of our century.


And nothing that you linked to argues that.

But I am hoping you really did "rest your case" because I am done asking you nicely to end this. I am telling you, do not comment again on this particulary thread or I will blacklist you. You are not adding anything at all to this discussion.
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Reply #128 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok think about this. I've seen pictures of Japenese people. I've seen pictures of Japan. I've seen pictures of Heaven and Hell. So what? I should believe it because I've seen pictures?

So going with your logic, you must also believe in Heaven and Hell since I'm quite sure you've seen the pics. If I draw you a picture of Jesus and you see it, then you have to believe in him as well. Right?


I didn't mean drawings, I meant photographs. Your point about not having seen Japan is so lame, it's not even funny.
Reply #129 from JoeUser Forums Top
"If you can convince people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do 24 hours a day, seven days a week and keeps count of the good and bad things, you can convince them of anything." - George Carlin
Reply #130 from JoeUser Forums Top

There is such a thing called "jumping genes" which is Transposons...(sp?). It's where chromosomes jump from one to another and how you get genetic mixing. It allows for variation and shuffling of the chomosomes. He got into sickle cell and ....lost me. He said anyone that knows anything about science would not use what you used Jill for backing up your view. There are things you could use he said but this wouldn't be one...gets discounted very easily if you know anything about science....and I don't.

It's always amusing to see dumb people make these lofty claims.  "Oh, they don't know about 'science'."   This is especially true about people who take the stories in Genesis literally.

See, an intelligent person would not make such an absurd remark.  They might say "Someone familiar with genetics would not likely argue from such a position." Or "Someone familiar with molecular biology..."  They don't say things like "Anyone that knows anything about science" because it's such an idiotic broad stroke.

Whenever I see blatantly ignorant people throwing around "science" broadly, it reminds me of the people who call Windows "The Windows".  Or someone who says "Anyone who knows anything about history would know that the Roman Empire was conquered by internal forces." Oh? So if someone's speciality is in say Renaissance Europe they know "nothing" on history unless they agree with everything with someone who is discussing the Roman Empire?

The other issue I see with Kickin For Christ, and why I would never participate in any sort of discussion with her is because she has incredibly poor reading comprehension.  So Jill User says X and KFC will literally read it as being the opposite.  Which, given her belief that the bible can be taken literally is astounding.

I mean, here's someone who can't correctly interpret WRITTEN material that's in front of her, only days old but has great faith in the accuracy of oral traditions written down 50 years after the death of Christ and re-translated dozens of times (by hand) in a politically charged environment for another thousand years. 

Look, I have nothing against Fundamentalist Christians anymore than I have a beef with people who are really into Star Trek.  They're just people who are really into their stories.  The difference, and the thing that gets on my nerves, is that at least the Star Trek zealots know that Star Trek is a work of fiction. And recognizing that a set of stoies are fictional (or at best, "based on a true story") does not mean someone can't have faith or that God doesn't exist or whatever. It just means opening ones eyes to the obvious.

 

Reply #131 from JoeUser Forums Top
I didn't mean drawings, I meant photographs. Your point about not having seen Japan is so lame, it's not even funny.


I am trying to understand why this is obvious to some and not to others. I think it is a matter of preconceived notions. If you decide to take the bible literally you can manage to justify in your mind why it is so even if it means overlooking parts of reality. If, on the other hand, you have made no assumption either way, but feel you need proof, overwhelming evidence (based in reality) tends to either keep you looking or makes you decide to look at things less literally.

That is why I tend to look toward less exclusive philosophies. It doesn't mean I discount belief in christianity. I do tend to have a lot of experiences with christians who discount any philosophy other than christianity.
Reply #132 from JoeUser Forums Top

That is why I tend to look toward less exclusive philosophies. It doesn't mean I discount belief in christianity. I do tend to have a lot of experiences with christians who discount any philosophy other than christianity.

Actually I think this thread has brought a lot of that out as well.  and for the better.  While I am christian (Catholic), I am not averse to other philosophies and indeed enjoy learning about them.  I guess because I am secure in my belief, I do not find them threatening, only enlightening (Jehovah's Witness being just pains).

Excellent thread.  I notice Brad just posted a kindred one on Noah.  I think I stirred the pot a little.  oops!

Reply #133 from JoeUser Forums Top
I guess because I am secure in my belief, I do not find them threatening, only enlightening (Jehovah's Witness being just pains).


I think that is wonderful.

I notice Brad just posted a kindred one on Noah. I think I stirred the pot a little. oops!


You weren't the inspiration for that one though. It is a fun one to debate.
Reply #140 from JoeUser Forums Top
Out out damn spambot!