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Subscription Drive: Status report

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Subscription Drive: Status report

We're not going to make it..

from WinCustomize Forums

If you click HERE you can see WinCustomize's traffic details.  Most sites keep this kind of thing secret but we tend to operate as transparently as possible.

The key figures are: 788,000 visits per day average. 5.5 MILLION visitors this past week. 

13 days into the WinCustomize subscription drive, we have a total of 345 people who have re-subscribed or subscribed new.  Quite a few of them are individuals who re-subscribed long before they needed to or bought a subscription for someone else.  That means a very small number of people are doing a lot of the heavy lifting for the site.  345 subscriptions means $6,900 in revenue (thank you to those who have subsribed).

As you can imagine, running a site that gets 5.5 million visitors every week is very expensive. Especially when it's on a download site. For instance, Kol's VistaXP skin has been downloaded about 2,000 times today.  It's a 2MB file.  That means 4,000 megabytes (4 Gigabytes) of bandwidth were used just for that one skin. So as you can imagine, the bandwidth costs of this site are immense.  Moreover, as skinning gets more popular and more users interact, we need full-time people to code and manage the site.  Thank goodness we have volunteers who actually run the site and a day to day basis or else there'd be no WinCustomize.

Which brings us back to the start of this news item.  WinCustomize costs probably around $300,000 a year to run.  That's bandwidth + salaries.  Anyone in the Internet business will tell you wer're running the site on a shoe-string.  A site in the top 3000 or so most popular in the world would typically cost far more.  deviantART, for instance, has around two-dozen employees working just on that site. 

So what happens to WinCustomize when October 31 comes and we're not even close to our goal?  Well, for skinners, subscribers, and SD Customers the answer is, not much.  Skinners and subscribers are going to get new stuff -- we have a Halloween skin in the works for instance and there will be subscriber-only content made in the future.

For regular users it's going to be a different story.  Users are going to have to start creating accounts to access skins made that month.  We'll also have to put in some code to make it more difficult for someone to simply create a duplicate account.  This will likely drive away some users -- which will be part of the goal.

In the midterm, the site will begin focusing more and more on the community with the community defined as people who care about WinCustomize.  That would be the skinners, the subscribers, and SD customers.  People not in that category will still be able to do many things on the site, but it will be much more restrictive. 

 

63,733 views 167 replies
Reply #76 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Incidentally, only a small % of people can actually rate skins.

Out of the 2.3 million accounts on WinCustomize, maybe 100,000 of them can rate skins.  Only apprentices on up and subscribers can rate skins I believe.

Reply #77 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hippe: Try the WC browser.
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #78 from WinCustomize Forums Top
You could probably save yourself a ton of bandwidth costs by redesigning the site with a CSS table-less design (http://solardreamstudios.com, http://dt.qrayg.com). Your load times would decrease and make everyone happy. Plus, making sitewide design changes would be a breeze.

One of the things that's keeping me from subscribing is the unprofessional design and overall unorganized mess this site has become. I used to love coming here but ever since the new design I've been coming here less and less.
Reply #79 from WinCustomize Forums Top
yeah, stardock really fell down on the subsscription offers, i resubscribed again because I want to support the site, but not for the bonus skins or any of the other fluff (pictures book etc). if they had a cheaper version, with less fluff and just bandwidth/basics, id be willing to bet they would've seen a lot more subscriptions.

regardless, very few of a whole lot bothered. i think that speaks volumes about the community.
Reply #80 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So, essentially, there are 25 million visitors per month, and there are only 2.3 million registered (NOT subscribed) members? Sounds to me like a first strike would be to restrict visitors to nearly nothing, encouraging registration. People are more likely to return to a site that they are a 'member' of.

Once they are a 'member', they will still have restrictions. I agree with the download limit, but I think that it should be lower... 25megs maximum. I've been a member for about 3 years, and I've only downloaded 1 gig of stuff. To give them 50mb's would be the equivalent of over a month of downloads (at my rate of speed). Maybe a 3 skin per-day limit would be more effective...

At this moment in time, with the subscription drive, the goal is to have people wanting to purchase subscriptions. Thats all fine and dandy, but I think that WinCustomize needs to start people down the path of 'needing' them. For example, how about all visitors and members can SEE all the skins, but only people with Subscriptions can download skins rated 5 stars. Members will be able to download any skin rated 4 star and below (up to their 25meg download limit), and Visitors will be able to download skins rated 3 and lower (up to their tiny download limit). Using this method, they will be exposed to all the talent here on WinCustomize, but they'll wont be able to access it unless they're willing to sign up, or pay up.

In my strategy, people who purchase Stardock products will have full and unlimited downloading priveledges, but will NOT get access to the subscriber premium skins or the other benefits that subscribers get.

The end goal, as always: Make WinCustomize self-sustainable. By literally forcing people to take steps in order to continue downloading, the 'freeloaders' will be skimmed out, and those willing to participate will remain. It is my hope that those loyal to the community will not let themselves be driven away by what will probably be a public outcry at the idea of charging for the use of this site. We've got a great community here, and I'm sure that it will be held together by the skills of the skinners, the helpfulness on the forums, and the goodwill of all visitors/members/subscribers!

Reply #81 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Just had a thought in response to Surj's post: Why not just have a 10 dollar 'mini-sub' that gets you unlimited downloads for one year? None of this 2 year renewal stuff. 10 bucks, one year, no fuss. People would pay it, I guaruntee it. I know I would, if I didnt want all the other features. I'm sure some people see the photoalbum etc. and say "hmm, dont need that... why am I paying for it?"

I know that these things still need developed, but if customers were under the impression that they werent paying for what they werent going to use, it might offer some more incentive for them. Think of it as a purchase of a Stardock product, only all the proceeds go to WinCustomize.

CerebroJD runs off, late for class!
Reply #82 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Grayg... I've suggested that several times, and I'd be willing to work on that process as well. I know both myself and another friend have worked on CSS-ified test versions. It would be way faster! Then again, php probably would be too, but thats a whole different kick in the nuts...
Reply #83 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So, essentially, there are 25 million visitors per month, and there are only 2.3 million registered (NOT subscribed) members? Sounds to me like a first strike would be to restrict visitors to nearly nothing, encouraging registration. People are more likely to return to a site that they are a 'member' of.


honestly i beleive somethin like that would cause most visitors to leave the site...not join. i think that is the dilemma the admins of this site are facing. People will come for free things, and with more people the chance of people suscribing increases...but if you limit visitors too much, people will leave, but the people that stay will have more of an incentive to suscribe. the point is, either way this site is taking a risk (for the second time = WINCUSTOMIZE IS NOT THE ONLY SKINNING SITE ON THE NET)
Reply #84 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Don't take anything in this post the wrong way. Not meant to be offensive or accusing of anything.

I find it funny that you have no "incentives" on spending $20 for a subscription. Yet, you have your incentives to download from this community and not contribute. Where, it's clear that the community is in trouble and needs your help.

No offense taken, thanks for the warning however. What I meant by incentives is that there's little reason for me to get a subscription despite that it helps running the site. Subscribing now will only help alleviate the cost burden for the wincustomize site. However, the biggest reward out of spending 20 is that you receive benefits, benefits that I probably will have little to no use for. To me, that'd be a financial waste.

Others will argue that it's just 20 bucks for a year. And I see and realize that it's nothing much. But I have to ask myself, "If I am paying for this stuff, why am I not making the most of it?" That's where the problem lies.

I'm an ObjectDesktop and WC Subscriber (Proudly) and I complained in the beginning as well. But at that time I had still paid my $49.95 into Stardock. Being at Visitor rating.. What can you say your contributions were?

Sadly, none, because I am not a skinning artist. I do not have the inspiration nor the motivation to create a skin that defines how I'd want windows to look like.

Suggestions for site improvement are probably always welcome by the admins. But to be taken seriously you need to show your worth like the rest of us do. Or fall come November.

Again, no problems with you in general. But I hate people who leech!! And hate people who pirate Stardock software even more. (Not that you do). Don't be with that crowd.

I only wish to share my ideas on how to improve, which the admins can always read over. They don't have to take my suggestion seriously if they do not want to. But it's a very viable suggestion nonetheless and something that can add additional savings to the bandwidth consumption.

I don't consider you ignorant to the benefits of the subscription, but I do consider you mis-informed. (Like most probably are who refuse to subscribe). Look into it.

The benefits of being a WC Subscriber are more than a personal page that you probably won't use.

Other people have mentioned about having a tiered levels of subscription, which I rather see implemented in order to help balance those who would like to subscribe on a different level. Optionally to that, a donation banner or icon located somewhere for those who would like to help out in any way possible (ie, in any amount). With millions of visitors per week, what're the chances of getting some substantial donations?
Reply #85 from WinCustomize Forums Top
that idea about $10 for unlimited download for 1 yr with no frills sounds good to me, speaking vox populi as one who is not a subscriber, merely an occasional visitor. i don't need or want any extra stuff like premium suites or photo album or community or whatever. i far rather pay a lower fee in order to get precisely what i want than pay more & get a bunch of things i don't need, which feels like wasting $ (regardless of those random digs about $20 being not a big deal, but the fact remains that ppl generally don't want to pay for unnecessary things). a tiered paying structure + a promise to reduce the load time of this graphic-heavy site sounds excellent to me & would be enough incentive for me to subscribe
Reply #86 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Has anyone else noticed that the people who seem to disagree with Brad's plan of cutting back on Visitor access all seem to be visitors?

And before someone takes issue with this statement, take the time to check all the previous posts in this thread. I'm not making any judgements, it's just an observation.

I do find that it is useful to have some idea of where a person is coming from.
Reply #87 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Has anyone else noticed that the people who seem to disagree with Brad's plan of cutting back on Visitor access all seem to be visitors?


Nope i havent - i am a visitor and i think its a good (although quite risky) idea

"do not make assumptions without knowing all the facts..."
Reply #88 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Nope i havent - i am a visitor and i think its a good (although quite risky) idea


Given the current situation that Brad and Stardock are looking at with WC, exactly how is it so risky?

Brad has stated repeatedly that Stardock would be fine without WC, and as I understand the currently stated plan, it won't even go that far. What's the big risk?
Reply #89 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Brad has stated repeatedly that Stardock would be fine without WC


Ouch. If I got one of those subscription services through the post, you know the kind of thing, get x things free when you sign up and commit to buy x over the year. And the footer read "I'm really not bothered if you go for this or not, its not like we need your custom anyway and hell, I could close this business at any time, I dont need it."

That would be one straight in the bin advertisment. Even if you know the people that run companies don't actually give a hoot about the little guy, you don't actually come out and say that in public.

Has anyone else noticed that the people who seem to disagree with Brad's plan of cutting back on Visitor access all seem to be visitors?


I actually got the impression that the majority was in favour of it, I personally commented on a much stricter cutting back. To clarify though;

Full page ad before any visitor downloads something
Ad/information encouraging visitor to get more involved while they download
Force visitors to become members after one download
Increase heavily the advertising used for visitors/members and obviously subscribers dont have to deal with that.
Restrict the site in more ways for visitors/members

The fact you even looked for that statistic is more revealing than your stat results.
Reply #90 from WinCustomize Forums Top


I tried the WC broswer. Same thig.
Reply #91 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Just subscribe or don't, like it or not. It's all pretty simple.
Reply #92 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Only apprentices on up and subscribers can rate skins I believe.



Obviously you didn't read what I said correctly or even think about it.

Personally, I feel that skinners should be the ONLY people that have the ability
to rate a skin, that way it would be much fairer because they know themselves what it takes to create
a skin or theme in the first place.



That is what I said and I still feel that would be the best way.
Maybe do something like Customize.org do, have two rating systems, one by the moderators and or skinners
and the other for subscribers. (Just a thought).
Reply #93 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Just subscribe or don't, like it or not. It's all pretty simple.

Ditto, you want unlimited downloads and access to the best work pony up the $20 Stay home and watch TV for one Friday night out of the whole year and you covered the cost. No one's going to force you to be part the "community" The "community" here seems to be a lot smaller than 100,000 apprentices and subscibers. What the community wants is participants. What the SITE needs is subscibers. Human nature shows that if you make something exclusive everyone will want in.

As far as the community thing goes....you tend to recieve what you give. Those who go off to other sites and complain about the hard time they recieved here probably started out giving someone else greif. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. I don't personally care much for DA although I'm a long time member. I get tired of all the #ssholes who have to be contrary/argue regardless of the topic. The inablility of the site to control rips/rippers. My main gripe is how they try to nickel and dime you and then force feed you ads the whole time your there....but I digress.

I've registered at quite a few other skinning based sites and the "communities" there are quite a bit smaller than here. So is the "offering" of posts. If you want the posts pay the fee. If you want to be part of the community, jump in and contribute. Knowledge, skill or just oratory. If you want a free ride catch a wave.
Reply #94 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Those who go off to other sites and complain about the hard time they recieved here probably started out giving someone else greif.

Just found this a few minutes after posting. I had to copy clip it out of another section. This is this gentleman's first post. Notice how he politely asks for help with his situation. I'm sure tomorrow he'll be over at DA telling everyone how elitist we all are cause we wouldn't help him after he asked so nice.

"I am so freakin' pissed off at Stardock and Microsoft garbage products, I purchased Windowblinds then I upgraded Object Desktop and through it I updated Windowblinds. I then had to reboot my system. After logging in I get only my wallpaper and nothing else. I waited 45 minutes for this piece of sh.. to finish loading. I have an HP zd8000 with a P4 HT 2.8Ghz and 2Gigs of RAM. What the f... is the problem with Stardock. It completely f..... up my system. Luckily I dual boot to SuSE Linux. I give up using Microsoft and all the f...... piece of sh.. software you f...... idiots write for it. Linux is stable and it's free, there is obviously something wrong when you pay so much money for an OS and it is completely unstable, not to mention you have to subscribe to all the internet security bull..... so MS runs ok. You people are all a bunch of idiots."
Reply #95 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Oh thats pleasant. >_<
Reply #96 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I've been banned from downloading. I bought WindowBlinds, but that was a while ago and apparently if your purchase of a product is not within a certain time frame, you're out of luck. Dev Art has skins I can D/L for my Windowblinds, so no biggie. They don't care how long ago I purchased anything. That's rant number one. I have a special account set up via paypal for my frivilous expendentitures. I would have joined here. But apparently you folks haven't become savvy enough to add a PayPal option. You want more users but you don't accept one of most widely used payment options on the web? What's up with that? My last rant: I've tried contributing here. I realize youfolks have a set of standards, but when wallpapers that have won awards on other sites are refused by yours, there is something wrong. I'll continue to use the site for news and such, but I'll do my downloading where I'm welcome.
Reply #97 from WinCustomize Forums Top
you want unlimited downloads and access to the best work pony up the $20 Stay home and watch TV for one Friday night out of the whole year and you covered the cost. No one's going to force you to be part the "community" The "community" here seems to be a lot smaller than 100,000 apprentices and subscibers. What the community wants is participants. What the SITE needs is subscibers. Human nature shows that if you make something exclusive everyone will want in.


Ideally if I wanted access to the best work, I'd be wanting to pay the artists who created the work in the first place and expect that Wincustomize took a cut of that to pay for the hosting and service. Renderosity.com is a great example of that in action. You'd see a major shift to exclusivity if that's what you want.

Do I think unlimited downloads is worth the subscription? Of course it is. Heres the crux of the whole drive though, you have a system in place right now that allows unlimited downloading for nothing. It is insignificant the effort it takes to get around the limits here. With that in mind, the shift to pay for the same is a difficult one to swallow. This could have been easily avoided but at least it sounds like the wheels are in motion to change this.

. I'm sure tomorrow he'll be over at DA telling everyone how elitist we all are cause we wouldn't help him after he asked so nice.


Every site with the ability to let people post has its trolls. Why right here in this very thread there are some very negative comments about DA. DA is a fantastic place and any beef you have with some part of it is to be expected. Sites do not exist to target you personally, they can at best please you some of the time. Wincustomize is also a fantastic place but again, it cannot be everything you personally want it to be.

and the tannoy sprang to life again

"The white zone is for uploading and downloading. Remember subscribers, always wash your hands after dealing with the public. La zona blanca está para uploading y descargar. Recuerde a suscriptores, lávese siempre las manos después de tratar del público."
Reply #98 from WinCustomize Forums Top
That would be one straight in the bin advertisment. Even if you know the people that run companies don't actually give a hoot about the little guy, you don't actually come out and say that in public.


Mr RiddickRom: It seems like all your points assume that the purpose of WinCustomize is as a money-making venture. If that were the whole truth then what you say would probably make a lot of sense.

However, if you read this post: Link perhaps you will see more clearly what is happening here.
Reply #99 from WinCustomize Forums Top
you have a system in place right now that allows unlimited downloading for nothing. It is insignificant the effort it takes to get around the limits here. With that in mind, the shift to pay for the same is a difficult one to swallow. This could have been easily avoided but at least it sounds like the wheels are in motion to change this.

There was a time when there were no fees to subscribe at all. As traffic increased, costs went up and pay subscriptions started. There was a good deal of discussion then and of course there were many who felt they shouldn't have to pay for access to skins for which they has already paid for the program to use. Reasonable people realized that while the car you buy has gas in it when you take it home, your not "owed" an unlimited free supply. So the result was our volunteer subscriptions with OD purchasers included for a year. Traffic and cost have increased further and now further measures are necessary. Maybe it would be better for Stardock to just add $20.00 to each sale and have each sale cover an initial subscription. Then after the term of the subscription with the purchaser being faced with being "cut off" it may be more appealing to pay the next twenty dollars. Assuming the individual is "SAVVY" enough to have a credit card.
Reply #100 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don't think that only skinners should be able to rate skins.

I think they're able to help each other grow and improve...but I don't think that in the scheme of things that ONLY skinners can appreciate the beauty of a skin that works well and runs well on a given operating system...

That's like saying only politicians can sniff out crooked politicians or only doctors know when someone is sick.

That doesn't make any sense to me.

This site is allowing individuals to view and choose (or not) to support (or not) the forums, the galleries and the artists here...and offer additional services for a fee.

It seems a fair charge and although it's dear to me...it IS up to me whether I am willing and able to accept what I get in return.

I don't need to be an astromony major to recognise when the sun is shining. Nor a meteorologist to know that it's if I walk outside and get wet.

Peace!