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Subscription Drive: Status report

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Subscription Drive: Status report

We're not going to make it..

from WinCustomize Forums

If you click HERE you can see WinCustomize's traffic details.  Most sites keep this kind of thing secret but we tend to operate as transparently as possible.

The key figures are: 788,000 visits per day average. 5.5 MILLION visitors this past week. 

13 days into the WinCustomize subscription drive, we have a total of 345 people who have re-subscribed or subscribed new.  Quite a few of them are individuals who re-subscribed long before they needed to or bought a subscription for someone else.  That means a very small number of people are doing a lot of the heavy lifting for the site.  345 subscriptions means $6,900 in revenue (thank you to those who have subsribed).

As you can imagine, running a site that gets 5.5 million visitors every week is very expensive. Especially when it's on a download site. For instance, Kol's VistaXP skin has been downloaded about 2,000 times today.  It's a 2MB file.  That means 4,000 megabytes (4 Gigabytes) of bandwidth were used just for that one skin. So as you can imagine, the bandwidth costs of this site are immense.  Moreover, as skinning gets more popular and more users interact, we need full-time people to code and manage the site.  Thank goodness we have volunteers who actually run the site and a day to day basis or else there'd be no WinCustomize.

Which brings us back to the start of this news item.  WinCustomize costs probably around $300,000 a year to run.  That's bandwidth + salaries.  Anyone in the Internet business will tell you wer're running the site on a shoe-string.  A site in the top 3000 or so most popular in the world would typically cost far more.  deviantART, for instance, has around two-dozen employees working just on that site. 

So what happens to WinCustomize when October 31 comes and we're not even close to our goal?  Well, for skinners, subscribers, and SD Customers the answer is, not much.  Skinners and subscribers are going to get new stuff -- we have a Halloween skin in the works for instance and there will be subscriber-only content made in the future.

For regular users it's going to be a different story.  Users are going to have to start creating accounts to access skins made that month.  We'll also have to put in some code to make it more difficult for someone to simply create a duplicate account.  This will likely drive away some users -- which will be part of the goal.

In the midterm, the site will begin focusing more and more on the community with the community defined as people who care about WinCustomize.  That would be the skinners, the subscribers, and SD customers.  People not in that category will still be able to do many things on the site, but it will be much more restrictive. 

 

63,732 views 167 replies
Reply #126 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Stop being a place for none Stardock products for downloads


I don't like that idea at all. There are too many great skinners that make wonderful skins for these progs. It is an asset to be able to get the skins for the progs you mentioned along with those for Stardock. I for one would be very disappointed if that happened. That is one of the things that makes this a great site. Being able to download skins for all your needs, in one place is a great thing. Perhaps if they were skins that were seldom downloaded I could see it, but the skins you mentioned are a big part of this site. Let's not take away from those who are members so those who are not can continue to download for free. Cutting back on bandwidth use by whatever means is a far better idea as well as promoting memberships. When someone has a choice to download for free, there is no need to join. Take that away, and if they want the skins that are offered here then they can become members or go somewhere else for their needs. Although they won't find the same variety and quality everywhere, they will be able to get skins without using up non supported bandwidth here.
And lets all face it. Just because we buy the progs doesn't mean we bought the bandwidth to download the skins for them too. After all, do we get free gas when we buy a car, or free electricity to run the airconditioner we bought for our home? No, of course we don't.
Reply #127 from WinCustomize Forums Top
My .02 - I'm a SD customer. I bought Object Desktop, Natural Desktop, & Object Dock Plus in the last few months. I'm not a subscriber.

1) I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew the money was getting shared with the actual artists. I understand SD is providing the bandwidth - but if the artists weren't providing the free goods, it'd be game over. I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew all the artists were getting even a little something as well.

2) If I were King, I'd limit downloads to one free skin/wallpaper/widget/whatever a day. Maybe even break it up so every Monday there's a free Blind, Wednesday's Wallpaper Day, and so on. That would still be four or five free WB skins a month, for example. It would cut down the daily traffic but still encourage non-subscribers (ie - Future Customers) to come back on a regular basis. You'd need a customer/subscriber account to access the site and go hog wild.

Honestly, I think Wincustomize's open policy is the exception, not the rule. I would think most people on the net would understand perfectly if you only offered limited access to non-subscriber.

Oh - you know what else would be fun for subscribers? A Collector's limited edition, subscribers-only skin. Have a collector's skin each year debut on Jan 1. Then retire the old one each year and never offer it again. So that regular subscribers can build up a collection of WB skins just for themselves. Well I think it would be fun, anyway,
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #128 from WinCustomize Forums Top
you know i actually read this whole article and said to myself.....:

1. Why not take out the exiled users....

2. lower the prices....

3. i don't know...
Reply #129 from WinCustomize Forums Top
1. Why not take out the exiled users....
They are exiled for a reason. Besides, thats MORE traffic, and one of the goals is to get LESS traffic.

2. lower the prices....
I do like the idea of a 'downloads only' subscription for 10 bucks...
Reply #130 from WinCustomize Forums Top
1) I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew the money was getting shared with the actual artists. I understand SD is providing the bandwidth - but if the artists weren't providing the free goods, it'd be game over. I'd be more likely to subscribe if I knew all the artists were getting even a little something as well.


I don't agree with that, the artists are using WC's bandwidth to transfer their skins and using WC's space to store their skins. If the artists wanted money for their skin(s), then the should get their own site and sell their skin(s) on it.

Anyway, I might subscribe after thinking about it. The only thing is that $19.95 is not too much money, but being 16, I can think of other ways to spend that money. Plus, I've never bought a subscription for a website before. I've been to this site for a very long time, and I've seen that it's a really good place to be.
Reply #131 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Would be nice to have complete suite's for subscribers only,maybe would tempt people to get a subscription.
Reply #132 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don't agree with that, the artists are using WC's bandwidth to transfer their skins and using WC's space to store their skins. If the artists wanted money for their skin(s), then the should get their own site and sell their skin(s) on it.



i dont agree with THAT, i agree that if the skinners stopped uploading skins then the future of this site would definately change

for another time i repeat: WINCUSTOMIZE IS NOT THE ONLY SKINNING SITE ON THE NET - KEEP THAT IN MIND PLEASSSSEEEEE
Reply #133 from WinCustomize Forums Top
WinCustomize is not the only skinning site on the net

[I removed the capitals ...don't like to shout ...sensitive ears ]

...No it's not. You're correct in that statement. However, it is the largest collection of skins for multiple apps ~all in the one place.

I'd much prefer to visit 2 or 3 main sites for all my skinning needs, than to trawl all over the net looking for skins. Plus, apart from a few smaller sites [which are wonderful sites] [SkinArtistry, Skinning.net Skinbase, etc] ...this site also has a great community, which is somewhat of a rarity for such a large site.

Skinners won't ever stop uploading their skins here, because thats not the issue being raised in this thread. Skinners are contributing to the site, therefore justifying their being here.
Reply #134 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I have been a visitor of WinCustomize for the last 2 or 3 years. Every year I send off my money order to renew my OD subscription. Being handicapped, I don't get out as much as I like, so my computer is my means of expression. Without OD and WinCustomize ... I would not enjoy the many themes, WB Skins, etc that I have downloaded from this site.

Will I subscribe? Damn Straight I will. While cash is tight, I would help out someone in need when I can. WinCustomize has made my day a little easier to live with ... A little less pain... a lot more joy...

So people add your subscriptions ....
Reply #135 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The best of luck to WC not only for this subscribtion drive but for the future as well. I will do my best to help keep the community growing and supporting the site as best as I can. It would be a shame to see this site go down.
Reply #136 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I was not going to make any more comments in the forum for more reasons than one, but I have a new vigor in like after a break from hectic work. So I have to say and that what sells the product these days is GOOD Marketing skills. I have been to a lot of sites on the web to a lot of them you are in connection with but haven't seen any advertising for your memberships here. If you did advertise it just was not good enough to catch my eye.
You also need to put out a good package with future plans for emprovement and what people are going to expect from you. The products are there just need to be put out to public in a different exciting way. Have a good slogan so it brings people to this site even more and you should have your site marketed as well in a bit more stand out way in all the other sites you are in partnership or what ever. Most of them are just normal writings in little boxes. Must improve on that to be able to sell. You really need a good slogan for starters with a good SS of your products.
Reply #137 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I gotta say, I bought the subscription, and nothing has changed. It didn't give me anymore than I already had.
Reply #138 from WinCustomize Forums Top
2 things:
One is that I am very interested as to how many will actually subscribe by October 31

Two is, sad to say, that there will not be enough subscribers so what will happen then?

I have disagreeed many times about not allowing people to freely see stuff because how do I or anybody else get seen if no one can see it?

But it is obviuos that many of the people drifting by are really doing nothing but drifting by.

So, I think it is time to turn the site into a subscriber only place. 3 levels; unsigned-in, signed-in and subscriber.

Unsigned in can't do much excpet view and maybe download... maybe... depending on the gallery. How about only the first 10 items on any given page?

Sign in and you will still see ads, but you can download stuuf up to 30MB.



As i said previously about this, i just hope the site is redesigned to take advantage of the new 3 teir structure. People who can't download anymore should be told about the other skinning sites out there or to subbscribe. Sub_sites data can only be downloaded from the main front page leaving galleries to view only.
Reply #139 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I was not going to make any more comments in the forum for more reasons than one, but I have a new vigor in like after a break from hectic work. So I have to say and that what sells the product these days is GOOD Marketing skills. I have been to a lot of sites on the web to a lot of them you are in connection with but haven't seen any advertising for your memberships here. If you did advertise it just was not good enough to catch my eye



I agree. WinCusto has a few volunteers, but hwat would be cool i they had one who is experience in marketing. I know this site can not be paid by advertising alone, but as far as I am concerned, it could earn way more than it does.
Reply #140 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Even though I'm a college student, I'd subscribe... but I only download a few skins from here a month and none of the premium suites you've ever released for subscribers are skins I'd used (no offense to the designers, just not my style), I don't want to use the Wincustomize browser since I only download a few WB skins a month at most and don't want/need to be able to apply skins from the browser, and I don't need unlimited downloads because I rarely download skins off of here.

So, it would be nice to see some sort of other benefit for subscribers--why not allow a WC subscription to give you 5% off your next SD purchase (off of OD, for example)? I already paid for WB, and I'm considering getting OD once WB5 is released for real. I'd be willing to consider a WC subscription as well.

I just have a hard time justifying paying $20 extra in addition to the $60 for OD for a sub to a site that I don't download off of all that often and for "benefits" that I don't want/need.

Even a measley 5% off OD would be enough to make me want to sub and buy OD together. Why not offer package deals like that?
Reply #141 from WinCustomize Forums Top
WinCusto has a few volunteers, but hwat would be cool i they had one who is experience in marketing. I know this site can not be paid by advertising alone, but as far as I am concerned, it could earn way more than it does.


Yes that is the key, since ther are so many great artists, skinners here, why on earth doesn't anyone make a great "Widget" for advertising the site. I know how hard it is to start a business, but this site is not that young any more and really needs to think about the next step.
As far as how many people go by on this site doesn't do a thing for it financially, I don't believe any price for the programs are expensive since a packet of smokes is about $10. Then again when there are the free version programs and visitors can just get what ever they like why should they join.
So it really doesn't matter how many visitors go pass this place.Visitors are a costly bunch. What needs to be done is to at least limit them to, say 2-3 skins a day. I don't know if this is done now but when I first discovered this site a couple of years ago that was the case and since I found so many great skins that I wanted that was the reason I joined as a member because I didn't want to be limited to what and how much I can download.
This is a little story about getting something for free. "A neigbor asked the better off neighbor to lend him some money and he said listen there is a box in the kitchen just go and take what you need but remember to return it back when you get in to some cash. The next time the neighbor asked again and the reply was the same. Another day the neighbor asked for the money again and was told the same that the money is in the kitchen in the box,oh, but said the neigbor it's empty, well said the other, did you put some back through time as we agreed, well no he said. Well how on Earth do you expect to get some now".
So WC just can't afford to have too many freebies, I just think that it needs to tighten the screws a bit more when it comes down to the above mentioned things.
Hate to see it close as I do enjoy it and I have met some really great people here and made a lot of friends, some very special people.
Hope they are reading this and taking to account that we do want this site to stay and get healthier and prosper to better financial flow.
If things in life don't work for us we have to change our ways and try something different, sit, think and put it to action. There are a lot of heads out there so I am sure if put together and write down, roughtly what could be done and then from it all choose the best of the lot and try it out. Things can only get better.
Reply #142 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Grayg... I've suggested that several times, and I'd be willing to work on that process as well. I know both myself and another friend have worked on CSS-ified test versions. It would be way faster! Then again, php probably would be too, but thats a whole different kick in the nuts...


Yeah... PHP would help too.

I've been building professional 5-6 figure CSS designs for a few years now. I tried building a test site with the current WC design. It took me about 20 minutes and it weighs about 80% less. It wouldn't take much work to lower this sites bandwidth to a reasonable level.
Reply #143 from WinCustomize Forums Top
pictoratus: The statistic you mention (Average Visit Time) is three minutes, not three seconds.
Reply #144 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Just curious. When is the Halloween Skin coming out?
Reply #145 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Very good points. But some of us who are on limited incomes (myself being on disability) have a hard time just covering the basic necessities; however, this also makes me conscientious of the financial struggles faced by the site. This is one of my main delimas with subscription only sites, once again a large portion of people are ignored.

Just a thought maybe consideration should be given to some type of point based system for lower income people. Subscriber votes being giving more value obviously.

Before people get all pissy do the math. I receive $959CDN a month, Rent is $523, Hydro $75, Water $65,basic phone $30, medication(not covered) $150 and my only indulgence is dialup at $16. If I'm ever able to purchase a year dial up for $10/mth then obviously this is one of the sites that will get some money.
Reply #146 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Some very interesting comments in this thread. I still think a Subscriber level model would work. But one thing i have noticed is a lack of input from Stardock? Are they really interested in all the ideas being thrown around here?

Come on Stardock what do you think, could any of the ideas be put in to practice and would they help??
Reply #147 from WinCustomize Forums Top
When is the Halloween Skin coming out


Last year, about same date, by apocalypse_67
Reply #148 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Some very interesting comments in this thread. I still think a Subscriber level model would work. But one thing i have noticed is a lack of input from Stardock? Are they really interested in all the ideas being thrown around here?


What do you mean ?
Wincustomize need Stardock ? i think i've seen an article asking if Stardock needed Wincustomize https://www.wincustomize.com/Articles.aspx?AID=88041
Reply #149 from WinCustomize Forums Top
HI
I just Lurk for the most part,read the forums articles, and buy as much Stardock/Wincustomize stuff as I can afford. Been a SDOD user since 2001. Just purchased my first Wincustomize subscription...only $20.Probably own 8 or 9 SD/WC products. I never would have purchased a Damn thing if I hadn't read SD history off main site and this quote of Brad's in particular "Customer loyalty really matters. If you treat people fairly, with respect, as individuals instead of “consumers,” you will earn their respect and trust in return."My trust has not been misplaced, never a raw deal for me here. Solution for site traffic is in moving these "consumers" overusing the site's resources into individual members of the best damn software/skin site on the net. I like the idea of keeping WCsubscribers, ODsubscribers , and developers on a completely different level from the masses. Allow viewing of ALL skins and addons to everyone, allow only 2-3 downloads of 5meg for unregistered on a waiting list, you know , allow x amount of bandwidth for unregistered users so they have to wait in line to download with 24 milion others , then a tiered, incremental structure to gradually (2-3$ at a time) bring them out of the cold into the community. You know the vast majority will USE as long as you let them, DEFINE the value of each benefit you give, then let the transients know FAIR USE(take AND give) is the only use this site supports.The individuals who have issue with 20$ for fair use...well they need to be re-edjucated by your site...or they need to go , bottom line. Four years of using the most non-draconian software I have found(OD), and I always felt I was getting off way to easy because of the free unlimited downloads from WC. I know the above is alot of work time and effort but IMHO I believe it is the only model that will not alienate huge sections of the community.one last thing , Public parks, restroom, streets are dumps without taxpayer dollars.......only by defining and enforcing a value can you hope to make this site self-sustaining.
Thank You for Your Attention in this Matter
Reply #150 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Ok Brad, here are my thoughts.
You need to refocus on what Wincustomize was all about, skinning.
If the bulk of your data you pay for is the wallpaper section ( my logic tells me that non stardock customers only would download those) get rid of it. Instead you give Wincustomize customers the possibility to upload walls on their own WC site, no moderation, maybe a MB limit ( That way non popular walls can be replaced by the customer, rather than to keep hosting them in a section) but keep new submissions in the "just in" column. You can still feature them.
Furthermore, WC was mostly there for the skinners, the ones that were clients from Stardock. I think you need to look at the upload side too. Hosting work is also a cost.
Give people choice between different levels of subscriptions. Cap uploads to say 10 or 15 uploads ( i am thinking of non walls related skins ), then start with mandatory subscriptions for hosting more works. For instance $5 per year for unlimited uploads/downloads for Stardock customers. $ 7,50 for non Stardock customers ( with walls extra charge for say an extra 20 MB) I would call that Wincustomize Client subscription. Then the Wincustomize Premium subscription for $10 a year with premium skins, released every 6 months. You should also look at ways to let customers sell their skins through your site. For instance a Wincustomize Professional subscribtion for $45 per year. Revenues go totally towards the skinner, it's their work. Again, no moderation, things will sort out by themselves. Skinners can set their own prices. No involvement from WC, except maybe advocating certain skins, category commercial and non-commercial ones. At the moment I feel everybody sets up their own site in order to earn a bit of the cake. I'd say try to bring them together at your site, make a real community.
OK, so you might not run break-even, you can tax dodge the costs can you? WC is your biggest advertisement sign.
In other words, give the power back to the people that want to use the site, rather than to try to control almost everything.