Frogboy Frogboy

The Future of WinCustomize.com...

The Future of WinCustomize.com...

Changes are coming...

Some changes are coming to WinCustomize.com.  Big changes.  But before we get to that, for those of you who haven't been here from the start, let me give you a brief history of WinCustomize.com...

...In the beginning the dot-com collapse of 2000 has knocked out many of the sites in our "skinning" community.  Many of us feared that it would be the end of our community. So in early 2001, Stardock quickly put together WinCustomize.com.  The idea at the time was that Stardock would provide the servers and bandwidth and community volunteers would take care of everything else.  That didn't work out so well and within the first month of the site's development, T-Man, a Stardock developer, had been put in charge of the site's development (which he continues to this day) and I came on as the primary administrator.  So that when the site was launched in March 2001, Stardock was taking care of the bandwidth, the servers, site coding, and overall site direction.  However, community volunteers did come to the rescue in the form of people like Jafo (and many others over time) who essentially take care of WinCustomize on a day to day basis.

But over time, the "skin" community has changed.  Despite skinning becoming increasingly popular, no major skin sites have been launched since 2001 (other customization-oriented sites have launched but no major gallery sites).  Moreover, since 2001, some of the existing skin sites have essentially gone on auto-pilot.  The skinning community, at its prime, was something to behold.  But it is not what it once was in my opinion. It is fractured and dispersed.

Meanwhile, traffic at WinCustomize.com has continued to grow and grow:

   
Figure 1: Traffic per month

At the same time, the # of subscriptions per month has declined and declined:


Figure 2: Subscriptions per month

So as a community of sites, we're at a cross-roads.  As someone who wants the skinning community (people who like to create and use "stuff" to alter the way their computer interfaces look & feel) to thrive, I want to do something that can help the community return to where it was.  But I'm also in the position of being in charge of Stardock.  The business case on WinCustomize has always been pretty weak.  The most profitable thing to do historically has been to close WinCustomize and just point to deviantART libraries of skins and themes for Stardock's software.  But at this point, closing WinCustomize.com would be a true last resort because a single site, deviantART, which is primarily an art site now, not a skin site, would have a virtual monopoly on skinning content (that's not to take away from Skinbase and other very good skin sites, but we're talking purely in terms of monthly traffic).

We're at a cross-roads then.  We have to get WinCustomize to a point where it can pay for itself.  I think the key to this is helping bring the skinning community back to its prime.  That means more community features, more galleries, more bandwidth, more programming, more of everything.  But to do this, it's going to cost money. Even with the people who volunteer, we still have to code the site, pay the bandwidth and the size of the site means that we need more people who's jobs are dedicated to the site.

So we've brought on two new people: Mike Bryant who many of you know.  He'll be creating some exclusive suites this year for WinCustomize subscribers.  We also have brought on WishX to help organize and keep the sites running, to interface more directly with the community volunteers.  And we hope to hire more ASP.net and SQL database developers to add in new features for people.  But to do this it's going to cost money. A lot of money.  Stardock writes most of the cost of WinCustomize off as "marketing".  But even today, WinCustomize costs many hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to run.  These changes are going to add dramatically to that cost. 

So later today, we're going to launch a subscription drive.  Our hope is to get 2,000 new (or renewed) subscribers between now and October 31st.  We'll be keeping you all informed of our progress. With 22 million visitors (over 3 million of whom are unique), getting 2,000 people to subscribe or renew shouldn't be a major problem we hope.  But we'll see.  We'll have more details on the subscription drive and what subscribers will be getting for sure and what they'll get IF we make the 2,000 goal.

51,058 views 114 replies
Reply #101 Top
I just put in the $20.00 for a renewal to WC and I have purchased around 95% of all of the Stardock products. However I have no idea when my current subscription to WC runs out. I don't mind contributing money to keep the site going since I don't have the talent to do the skinning. To me it is worth it to be able to alter and change my Windows XP pro desktop to reflect my current mood.
How do you tell when your WC subscription or your Stardock OD is up? Do things just stop working? Since I renew each year I've never experienced anything not working.
Also a tip of the hat and many thanks to all of the people who are able to skin and moderate the forums which are very helpful to the lurkers (myself being one) who I assume dominate the websites and forums.


Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central
Reply #102 Top
All I am saying is, the second the average user of this site is *forced* to pay 20 more dollars just so they have the privilege of downloading skins they used to get for free here (and can still get elsewhere for free), many will start finding their skins elsewhere.

To my mind, it's fine to drive away the mobs of people who visit here every day who have never bought a thing, but a real slap in the face to everyone who has purchased Object Desktop.
Reply #103 Top
I think most people would agree that site speed has dramatically improved since July.
Look at page views per day:


perhaps so. But that's a full six months that it was unstable. And really that's been not so long ago. I'm still not fully confident in the site. It still goes down.

The other posters are right. What makes people want to subscribe to a server error page?
Reply #104 Top
It is obvious that giving a non subscriber the ability to download higher rated skins, or any skins for that matter, is not getting more subscriptions. With more visitors and less subscriptions, that is obvious. People are not inclined to pay for something they are already getting for free. There has been far too much given to those who are not subscribed. Those who buy the programs ought to be able to download some of the lesser rated skins, but that too should be limited. As Lantec said, we don't get free gas for our cars when we buy them, why should a person who buys a program get unlimited downloads? A few skins to get started should be enough.
Reply #105 Top
Brad: set up Paypal. I've said this before. It would help WC.
Reply #106 Top

All I am saying is, the second the average user of this site is *forced* to pay 20 more dollars just so they have the privilege of downloading skins they used to get for free here (and can still get elsewhere for free), many will start finding their skins elsewhere.

To my mind, it's fine to drive away the mobs of people who visit here every day who have never bought a thing, but a real slap in the face to everyone who has purchased Object Desktop.

Object Desktop users already get unlimited downloads.  And the mobs of "free everything" pepole would be encouraged to go elsewhere.

I saw in another thread an idea I liked that could be modified:

A skinner with Master access or higher could submit their skin as WC subscriber only.  For the first 30 days after release, it would only be available for subscribers (after that it would be available to everyone).  In exchange, those skins could receive special promotion.  In time, as the site's finances get in order, a % of subscriber revenue could be set aside to go to those skin authors based on the % of subscriber downloads they received versus others submitted during that calendar quarter.

Reply #107 Top
A skinner with Master access or higher could submit their skin as WC subscriber only. For the first 30 days after release, it would only be available for subscribers (after that it would be available to everyone). In exchange, those skins could receive special promotion. In time, as the site's finances get in order, a % of subscriber revenue could be set aside to go to those skin authors based on the % of subscriber downloads they received versus others submitted during that calendar quarter.


I like the idea. If you make something exclusive, suddenly everyone wants in. Human nature.

You might want to offer those quality skinners who submit here some incentive to RELEASE skins here prior to putting them up elsewhere. Maybe a section for "Coming Soon" where they could build up some interest and allow all to have access to the previews. Make people NEED to subscribe to have the best.
Reply #108 Top
Let me preface this by saying that I've noticed that any suggestions or constructive criticism seems to be met with defensive replies...... so let me be clear that the following is meant only as a helpful suggestion.

The fact that subscriptions are not merely stagnant but actually on the decline are a clear indicator that something is not working...... in other words those that once had subscriptions are not renewing and new comers are not buying. The logical response would be to try to figure out 'why'.

1. I've been all over the site for the last two days...... the first day I got the Error in '/' Application with no delays and yesterday I spent 2minutes and 52 seconds waiting to go from the forums to the home page and then got the server in error, again. No problem so far today. In all fairness once a day is a vast improvement over the problems encountered earlier in the year. Although, this means that the site still has problems and 10 months is an extremely long time to iron out these vexations.

2. The suggestion made by JohnSanDiego ( reply #61 ) is a valid point...... documentation should be updated. However, the reply that >>Stardock does NOT want to appeal to the novice computer user<<, seems inane to me. I for one would have never bought a thing if I had seen a statement like that..... you see I was a neophyte, perhaps, still am. Yet I learned to use everything I wanted in Object Desktop and when I had a question..... no one can top the people in the forums here at WC!! I mention this because several of the people I managed to get interested in WC and Desktop customization were all novices such as myself. Why would any newbie want a membership to a site that showcases the products of a company that isn't interested in you as a customer if you're a PC tyro?

I think perhaps you don't realize how appealing your product is to regular people who are not skinners. You will always have the loyalty of the skinning community because this is their haven, but it is my opinion that you should focus you efforts in trying to attract and / or retain the ineterst of the nonskinning world. If your interest is revenue this would be the way to go, however, if your goal is to produce a product for a specialized group then my point is moot.

3. I also think many of the suggestions here for revamping the membership have merit.

Sometimes when we're too close to a problem we don't see the whole clearly....... my input is only meant to give you a third party perspective, so to speak.
Reply #109 Top

Lady Aarielle:

Regarding site "issues".  It's a chicken or egg thing.  Every time an error message comes up, it is logged.  And I can tell you, for a fact, that the # of these has decreased dramatically in the past couple of months.  However, things like the advanced forum code and articles and such are difficult to handle on a site this complex and popular. 

The site needs more developers to resolve what issues there are. But that costs more money to pay those people.  But from Stardock's perspective, there's an alternative - eliminate the forums and articles which is where 90%+ of the error messages come from. The skin galleries work incredibly well.

Regarding neophyes.. It's a simple matter of price.  As soon as a user needs technical support on a $20 program then whatever "profit" there was on that program has disappeared. And Windows customization or any computer-related activity that's remotely unusual, is always going to require a basic level of computer experience on the user's part.  Therefore, it makes little sense to focus on neophytes. 

But obviously, if my business judgment is wrong and there's a huge market, my suggestion would be to find some venture capital and start up a company that competes with Stardock.  There's TGT Soft for instance. You could try their software.  Of course, they don't have any forums, their skin sites install adware and spyware on your computer (that's how they solved the money problem, they bundle adware with every skin you download) but there are alternatives..

We really do appreciate people giving their feedback.  If we sound defensive, it's mainly because we're defensive. That is, we don't tend to take people insisting that they know better than us on something that they clearly don't know more than us. 

Reply #110 Top
The site needs more developers to resolve what issues there are. But that costs more money to pay those people. But from Stardock's perspective, there's an alternative - eliminate the forums and articles which is where 90%+ of the error messages come from. The skin galleries work incredibly well.


why can't can't there be a different site for forums like in winmodify?
Reply #111 Top
Frogboy,

Well, lets see...... your reply to my suggestion invites me to go elsewhere to try other software. Hmmm.

Perhaps reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits...... I did NOT insist that I knew more than you, nor did I say that you should focus on neophytes.

If you truly appreciated feedback your replies would not be so petulant. So. I'll refrain from annoying you any further and leave you to your thread..........
Reply #112 Top
Frogboy said:
A skinner with Master access or higher could submit their skin as WC subscriber only. For the first 30 days after release, it would only be available for subscribers (after that it would be available to everyone). In exchange, those skins could receive special promotion. In time, as the site's finances get in order, a % of subscriber revenue could be set aside to go to those skin authors based on the % of subscriber downloads they received versus others submitted during that calendar quarter.


I third this... I do not mind, as a SD customer, knowing that WC subscribers get something as an exlusive earlier than I can. What I don't want to see is that SD customers never get the content - delayed is acceptable. It is also an incentive to those who are already customers to subscribe - so they can get this newest content ahead of anyone else, make the good screenshots, etc. .

I also wouldn't mind seeing daily limits on SD Customers, who aren't subscribers - as long as they're generous. If you're in the habit of downloading heavily, you should subscribe even if you're a customer. And, since the limits are daily (or weekly, but no more), then all the content is still available, it just takes more effort to get, thus an incentive to subscribe to current SD customers.
Reply #113 Top
focus on neophytes.


my name is phil, neo phil
Reply #114 Top
[Frogboy] But WC doesn't get 1,000 subscribers per month. It doesn't even get a third that rate. And on a site that receives over 3 MILLION unique visitors, that strikes me as ridiculous. Obviously if Stardock has 3 MILLION customers, it would be moot.

i was just wondering, could it be possible that stardock offers as well as a regular object desktop licence package, a second package that would include both the purchase of object desktop & a wincustomize subscription? i know. one could click both in the shopping cart, but people can be lazy... and having both in just one click... might help? just a suggestion as i love both!
edit: i want my grandkids to be able to be part of this site! (note that i have no kids yet!) i have to admit being guilty of great downloads, but this is essentially due to the fact the connexion here is irregular (wether speed or just existance... sometimes i can connect several times a day and each time it might as well be dead!). i will refrain from exagerating! and i would understand if there is a limit (daily/weekly) even for SD customers.