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The Future of WinCustomize.com...

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The Future of WinCustomize.com...

Changes are coming...

from WinCustomize Forums

Some changes are coming to WinCustomize.com.  Big changes.  But before we get to that, for those of you who haven't been here from the start, let me give you a brief history of WinCustomize.com...

...In the beginning the dot-com collapse of 2000 has knocked out many of the sites in our "skinning" community.  Many of us feared that it would be the end of our community. So in early 2001, Stardock quickly put together WinCustomize.com.  The idea at the time was that Stardock would provide the servers and bandwidth and community volunteers would take care of everything else.  That didn't work out so well and within the first month of the site's development, T-Man, a Stardock developer, had been put in charge of the site's development (which he continues to this day) and I came on as the primary administrator.  So that when the site was launched in March 2001, Stardock was taking care of the bandwidth, the servers, site coding, and overall site direction.  However, community volunteers did come to the rescue in the form of people like Jafo (and many others over time) who essentially take care of WinCustomize on a day to day basis.

But over time, the "skin" community has changed.  Despite skinning becoming increasingly popular, no major skin sites have been launched since 2001 (other customization-oriented sites have launched but no major gallery sites).  Moreover, since 2001, some of the existing skin sites have essentially gone on auto-pilot.  The skinning community, at its prime, was something to behold.  But it is not what it once was in my opinion. It is fractured and dispersed.

Meanwhile, traffic at WinCustomize.com has continued to grow and grow:

   
Figure 1: Traffic per month

At the same time, the # of subscriptions per month has declined and declined:


Figure 2: Subscriptions per month

So as a community of sites, we're at a cross-roads.  As someone who wants the skinning community (people who like to create and use "stuff" to alter the way their computer interfaces look & feel) to thrive, I want to do something that can help the community return to where it was.  But I'm also in the position of being in charge of Stardock.  The business case on WinCustomize has always been pretty weak.  The most profitable thing to do historically has been to close WinCustomize and just point to deviantART libraries of skins and themes for Stardock's software.  But at this point, closing WinCustomize.com would be a true last resort because a single site, deviantART, which is primarily an art site now, not a skin site, would have a virtual monopoly on skinning content (that's not to take away from Skinbase and other very good skin sites, but we're talking purely in terms of monthly traffic).

We're at a cross-roads then.  We have to get WinCustomize to a point where it can pay for itself.  I think the key to this is helping bring the skinning community back to its prime.  That means more community features, more galleries, more bandwidth, more programming, more of everything.  But to do this, it's going to cost money. Even with the people who volunteer, we still have to code the site, pay the bandwidth and the size of the site means that we need more people who's jobs are dedicated to the site.

So we've brought on two new people: Mike Bryant who many of you know.  He'll be creating some exclusive suites this year for WinCustomize subscribers.  We also have brought on WishX to help organize and keep the sites running, to interface more directly with the community volunteers.  And we hope to hire more ASP.net and SQL database developers to add in new features for people.  But to do this it's going to cost money. A lot of money.  Stardock writes most of the cost of WinCustomize off as "marketing".  But even today, WinCustomize costs many hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to run.  These changes are going to add dramatically to that cost. 

So later today, we're going to launch a subscription drive.  Our hope is to get 2,000 new (or renewed) subscribers between now and October 31st.  We'll be keeping you all informed of our progress. With 22 million visitors (over 3 million of whom are unique), getting 2,000 people to subscribe or renew shouldn't be a major problem we hope.  But we'll see.  We'll have more details on the subscription drive and what subscribers will be getting for sure and what they'll get IF we make the 2,000 goal.

51,058 views 114 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I've been a ODNT subscriber for almost two years, and even subscribed to WC because I wanted to support the site. I like the community, and I do download quite a bit. I plan to continue both subscriptions.
However, I don't really see much benefit to a WC subscription in addition to ODNT. I don't use the premium suites, and for the life of me, I can't see the purpose of the WC browser (maybe make it gecko-based and use FF extensions?)
I understand that their are business realities to be faced, and I appreciate the upfront honesty about the situation. I have found Stardock to be one of the most honest businesses I have dealt with. They provide a fantastic product for a reasonable cost.
I have tried to get friends and family interested in WC and Object Desktop, but mostly they don't see the point in it.
Maybe some print ads in some of the PC magazines could spark some more interest. (Hey, I work in printing, and I have to make a living too )
Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top
When I was introduced to wincustomize.com, I was blown away. I never knew that one could change how their computer looks beyond the skins that come with Window XP.

Then I took a look at the window blinds skins and I was surprised that the skins where created by regular Joe’s just like me, the level of creativity that the skinners have excited me, I was hooked!

I wanted to give it a try, to see if I could do it. I felt artistically rejuvenated and refreshed.
So I got a subscription and set out to learn how to build my first skin.

When it is time for me to renew my subscription I will be happy to do so. I feel that those that come to wincustomize.com and have downloading anything should feel a little obligated to help keep this unique site up and running.

Some have to remember how much free stuff this sight allows its users to have access too. (I know I am going to get some negative statements after this comment, but it cool)

Any way I guess I said all this to say, Lets help wincustomize.com become a bigger and better sight for all skinners.

(Ok, I’m done!) LOL

firstliight
ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Another way of saving bandwidth is deleting files which are older than 1 year or have not been downloaded 'enough' to stay online, That way you will filter our the 'not so good' skins and save bandwidth for the newer 'greater' skins... Just an idea
Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top
[Night Train]
And the thing most likely to give is to start buckling down harshly on what non-customers can do and then start rewarding subscribers more intensely


hallelulah!

It is too easy for non subscribers to get around the download cap if and when they reach it. Newcomers don't care about a communty. They want free stuff. <--period


~~~Well finally someone said what I've been thinking while reading this thread.
I've been downloading blinds and stuff all day without signing in..doesn't take an Einstein to figure out ways around things. But, i'll be damned if I was going to say it for the few that don't know.
There really is no incentive for anyone to pay for a subscription. They dont care about the benefits that we get......only what they can get for free. A few libraries ...can only be seen by the public if Items have a rating of 3.5 to 4 stars and above. More or less the " top " quality of wincustomize. In one sense, I see your marketing strategy.
Show them top notch in hopes that they become members. Unfortunately I think that works in reverse. If they can get the top notch stuff for free..why bother buying a subscription ? I say let them " see" the higher quality stuff but not be able to download it. That should be a benefit for paid members. A visitor can use the screen shot section and have literally hundreads of screen shots using space on WC. After 6 months your no longer a "visitor" your a freeloader. My screen shot library shows 92 Shots since I joined..almost 2 years ago. But in reality , there are 52, I deleted the others because its a waste of space..

Anyway, back to the " look what you CAN have for a measely $20 a year. Technically after One year and with next renewal its $40 for THREE years.

Thats not a lot of money for most people that own a computer.

Also..maybe another type of subscription donation program or contest like A_47 did last month. I felt the people that recieved the subscriptions were more than happy and expressed a lot of gratitude.
Maybe just toss up an address that people could donate to .. anonymously..if they choose..
Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I agree there should be a limit on the activities of non-subscribers. But what about people who have purchased a product? Surely they are entitled to download skins for their product? And people new to skinning need to get a good look at the software to encourage them to buy.

OK, how about this: People using shareware have a pack of the best dozen skins they can download for each product, to try out the product before they buy - no access to any other downloads. People who have bought a product have unlimited downloads of skins rated 4 stars and above. WC subscribers have access to everything.

It would at least provide an incentive to subscribe.

Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top
(Fairyy~)There really is no incentive for anyone to pay for a subscription. They dont care about the benefits that we get......only what they can get for free.


I totally agree. Brad, the ONLY reason I bought a subscription, a few month ago,
was to do my little part in supporting the community and Stardock. The subscription
has absolutely no value for "Joe Blow" and myself included.

Until you can figure out a way to make the subscription a "Must have" item, you'll
be facing this dilemma until the cows come home.
Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top

is there anyway i can get a subscription? i can't use my parents credit card because they don't want me here in the first place.

Apprentice Bash2cool ...in all seriousness...if your parents do NOT 'want you here'...then you should not BE here.

It's not really appropriate to facilitate the 'rebellion' of a minor against his parents'/responsible adult's wishes.

There are alternatives to credit card usage for payment, but respectfully you would do better to lobby for your parent's consent instead....

Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top

But, since that time, I've done ALOT of reading in the forums, and not so much posting. I've learned a few things that I wish I had understood before I flamed this place. I really want to see this site survive and flourish. I know it is certainly not professional to beg, but I think there are many people here who already have a subscription that would be more than willing to donate to help save WC. Perhaps some sort of donation link through paypal or something. Just a thought. And while I'm at it, I will make a public apology to Brad, Jafo and others who deserve it from me.

Apprentice RPGFX  ...thanks for that, mate....it's always good to know there's an understanding that the Admins' efforts are really in the right place....though sometimes it seems 'adversarial'....

Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Until you can figure out a way to make the subscription a "Must have" item, you'll
be facing this dilemma until the cows come home.


The wise words from brewman. I completely agree with that statement, I renewed my subscription for the love of the site, not for "what I get out of it". If someone is not attached to this place enough, there is hardly a reason to subscribe...
Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I totally agree. Brad, the ONLY reason I bought a subscription, a few month ago,
was to do my little part in supporting the community and Stardock. The subscription
has absolutely no value for "Joe Blow" and myself included.

Until you can figure out a way to make the subscription a "Must have" item, you'll
be facing this dilemma until the cows come home.

 

We're definitely open to ideas.  We want people to be able to come in and be able to download a few things without having to create an account. But you're right, people can get around the limits if they put some thought into it (deleting cookies for instance). 

I think we'll probably end up having to put in more effort to make people create accounts. Once they create accounts it's a bit easier to monitor how much someone is downloading.

Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top
From the viewpoint of someone quite new to the world of Stardock and WinCustomize, I would like to offer a suggestion of what I suspect accounts for the drop-off in subscriptions and the fact that you have 3 million unique viewers (per year?), but get only around 300 subscribers a month).

I suspect that in the "old days" your subscription base was made up largely of "computer geek" types (no offense intended by the use of "geeks" -- I love geeks -- I wish I was smart enough to be one). But now Stardoc is marketing DesktopX and it's other products as simple to use. ("Only a couple of lines of code needed!") In other words, Stardoc is now trying to appeal to a wider audience of non-geeks. This would be fine, if Stardoc had realized what they had to do to make their products assessable to non-geeks: namely a clear, consistent user interface, clear, comprehensive tutorials, and most importantly: CLEAR, COMPREHENSIVE, UPDATED DOCUMENTATION.

Stardoc's documentation is a scandal for a company who is trying to promote a their products as a easy-to-use system allowing users to take complete control of Windows user interface.

I loved what Stardocs says in its promotions. Just the ticket for me, a non-geek, to make Windows look like I want it to. So I gladly paid $49 for the full Stardoc Suite. But when I had installed it, I went immediately to the "Stardoc" program folder, and found only a link to Stardoc's web site. Where were the programs I paid for? Oh, there they were under an "Object Desktop" entry. (Who knows why -- I don't recall that name in any of the promotions I saw.) So there they are, in all their multiplicity -- if I want to play with my desktop should I use DesktopX or WindowBlinds? Let's check the Documentation, there's a "DesktopX Documentation" menu item, but when I open it, it turns out to be ancient, very incomplete documentation for DesktopX 3.0!

Next, I looked online -- all I could find was incomplete and outdated tutorial, along with many user requests for help and tortured explanation in the forums of how you sometimes have to change zip extension to gain access to downloaded elements (while other times you don't).

Finally, I notice an item in the "Object Desktop" menu that "Object Desktop Documentation". This turns out to be a 118 page manual, that clearly making a effort to be complete, but it's very short where to find things, and the wording in the illustrations is sometimes different that what I see in my programs (not to mention looking completly different than my programs -- using a different skin than standard windows is not a good idea when you're trying to explain things to new users who are looking at something different).

Last night I decided I would play around with cursors a little. I had downloaded several interesting cursor sets from WinCustomize and wanted to try them out. But I spent a frustrating hour trying to find the correct program to use for cursors. Nothing seemed to work. So I went online again, and I notice a recent forum entry saying "Why wasn't CursorXP bundled with OD?" The response was that it was a free program and that there would be no point in including a free program in a paid bundle? I could argue otherwise, in fact free programs are often included in program packages -- it provides added value to customers. But, oh well, it's free, I just download it now. But when I find the download version of CursorXP I discover that it's NOT free -- it costs $10.00

What all this boils down to is that it doesn't matter if it only takes a couple of lines of code to do something, if it takes two hours to find out where to use that code or use the program!

In Stardoc want to appeal to a wider audience, it has its work cut out for it.
Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I think we'll probably end up having to put in more effort to make people create accounts. Once they create accounts it's a bit easier to monitor how much someone is downloading.

A 'Members Only' section....where all is visible but nothing is downloadable without 'membership'.

That 'should' work....[he says 'confidently']...

Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top

John, I'm sorry you don't like the 100+ page Object Desktop manual.  But it has little to do with WinCustomize's subscriptions.

Desktop customization is not designed for the neophyte. It does require users who are pretty comfortable with their computers. 

For example you mention how hard it was to find the program to use with CursorXP cursors here on WC:

I click on the CursorXP section: https://www.wincustomize.com/Skins.aspx?LibID=25

The top top of the page under "Gallery description" is a description of what CursorXP is with a button to download it.  That seems easy to me. 

CursorXP is free btw.  The fact that a Plus version exists doesn't change the fact that CursorXP is free.  Quicktime is free too but there exits a Pro version of it.

Stardock does NOT want to appeal to the novice computer user.  The reason is that it would cost too much to support such users.  And again, this has nothing to do with WinCustomize subscriptions.

Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top
A 'Members Only' section....where all is visible but nothing is downloadable without 'membership'.


I really like this idea. I think Windowblinds should be 100% subscribers only. That's what I think most of the people come here for. Another idea, is maybe only subscribers can upload. That would convince people to subscribe. I know that kinda puts minors in a tough spot though. Just thinking out loud here...
Reply #65 from WinCustomize Forums Top
We're definitely open to ideas.


The little things go a long way, like new honorifics just for subscribers, custom html signatures on forum posts, new shields showing your proudly bought membership, things of that nature. Easy ways to make subscribers feel more important. Just some random thoughts....
Reply #66 from JoeUser Forums Top
There really is no incentive for anyone to pay for a subscription. They dont care about the benefits that we get......only what they can get for free. A few libraries ...can only be seen by the public if Items have a rating of 3.5 to 4 stars and above. More or less the " top " quality of wincustomize. In one sense, I see your marketing strategy.
Show them top notch in hopes that they become members. Unfortunately I think that works in reverse. If they can get the top notch stuff for free..why bother buying a subscription ? I say let them " see" the higher quality stuff but not be able to download it. That should be a benefit for paid members.


My thoughts, also. Don't give away the best stuff to potential members/buyers/subscribers. Show them what they can get but only let them download a limited amount of the lesser quality stuff.

The current model is backwards.
Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Apprentice RPGFX ...maybe not 100% ...that'd be too restrictive/limiting to the casual sparking of interest.

Probably what would happen would be a slow, careful 'trend' towards that model....starting by more discrimination IN FAVOUR of those who Subscribe...

More Kudos and benefit/s to them as well...not shabby at all...

This whole question of future direction pops up frequently....always prompted by the commercial reality of pressures/costs of general expansion and overall improvement of content/service.

The good part of it all is that it's a public input and opinion-gathering....of the community, and FOR the community.

Anything suggested will be valid input, just as it should be...

Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It's funny how ppl that make money on the web continue to whine about the lack of it. I'm already paying way more then this thing is worth.

For example, if I was a young skinner trying to learn my trade, I would not be selling skins nor software, I actualy may have just an ordinary job trying to survive if I'm lucky. I also could be now faced with a decision. Drop Stardock products in order to help save WinCusto? I think not, but I may not be able to afford both.

This however is not my situation but I have a question. Has anyone done 'the totals'? How much per-say, would it cost to subscribe to most of Stardock Products and WinCusto for a year?
Reply #69 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Buying a Wincustomize subscription is great, everyone seems to have forgotten the main perk you get when you subscribe.

If anything goes wrong you can make a clown out of yourself by going into the forums and saying I paid 20 bucks for this site so you better bow to my every wish and demand, and if one time the site seems sluggish I demand a full handwritten apology to every user with a full refund! And give me a walmart gift card, cause this is just soooooo outlandish.
Reply #70 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Apprentice Bash2cool ...in all seriousness...if your parents do NOT 'want you here'...then you should not BE here.
It's not really appropriate to facilitate the 'rebellion' of a minor against his parents'/responsible adult's wishes.
There are alternatives to credit card usage for payment, but respectfully you would do better to lobby for your parent's consent instead....


no....im not going to let this slow me down.

i was grown up to like computers and everything that involves it since i was 5. And now if i don't come here, i would just be distroying everything i've done since 5. Ok maybe not distroy but wincustomize is like a person i can talk to for help. almost like a friend in school.

All i want to do is help.....my parents would have helped but they don't think that customizing your PC is about computers too.

Basicly they don't except me for who i am. OK i think im telling you guys TOO much....
Reply #71 from WinCustomize Forums Top
People argue about paying .99 cents for a song... so why wouldn't someone complain about 20 dollars to subscribe to the site?


As far as pointing to deviantArt... lets just say that might be problematic, but I get your point. Its cheaper to point than to host.

WinCustomize works well for Stardock, but in the end, 300,000 a year probably is too high. I never understood, though, why Wincustomize doesn't get at least 50,000 a year in advertising considering the amount of people who come to the front page. Maybe you guys should pull a 'Yahoo' and turn your front page into a matching theme for an advertiser? Yahoo Music does it, and so does Billboard.com, forbes, and another well know site I can't think off right now.

Ex: If you sell your front page to Downloads.com, the page shows up looking a mix of yellow and green with white (just the first page) for non-wincusto subscribers.



I do think 300,000 is allot. With the trend of the cost going higher, Wincustomize will have to find a way to fund itself.

Website subscriptions (and a better advertising set-up for visitors, including making deals with computer manafacturers like Dell or HewardPackard/Compaq and software makers) should bring the cost around. The current ad layout is good, but the content of the ads could be upped a notch. AdBright is ok, but you should try IndieClick, and some others.
Reply #72 from WinCustomize Forums Top
To futher ad to the ad layout thingy... maybe if the ads didn't look like they are just placed there instead of being more in tune with the design (for example, while the placements are fine, the could have a border around them, maybe even the Winusto Areo look border or just a little more space between the next item below), then there might be some more return... and yes I know it still will come no where near 300,000 but every little bit helps.
Reply #73 from WinCustomize Forums Top
maybe if the ads didn't look like they are just placed there instead of being more in tune with the design (for example, while the placements are fine, the could have a border around them, maybe even the Winusto Areo look border or just a little more space between the next item below), then there might be some more return


So you want to enhance the site for the non-subscribers?



Subscribe and lose the ads.
Reply #74 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Not trying to be pushy, but I would still love to know that those of us whose subscriptions are a way off from expiring (for example, mine doesn't expire until Aug 06). I know I will renew, but it seems a bit silly to renew almost a year before it expires. So, do they premium suites advertised here help out WC in any way? Or just Stardock as a whole? Thanks.
Reply #75 from WinCustomize Forums Top

People who are already subscribers shouldn't feel they need to re-subscribe.

A site that gets 3 million unique visitors per month should not have any problem getting 2,000 of them to subscribe.

I very much agree that we will almost certainly have to lower the boom much harder on those who aren't subscribers or at least SD customers going forward.  Perhaps a big full page ad before they can even get onto the site might help.

I think subscriber only skins in the main galleries would be helpful too.  I think requiring people to have accounts to download anything but the very newest stuff (i.e. stuff from the past 3 days) would help. I also would like to have more programs to help skinners. 

The thing some people need to get out of their heads is this nonsense that somehow Stardock "needs" WinCustomize.com.  If that were the case, every software company that uses content would be sponsering some sort of massive free community content site.  All Stardock "needs" is a relatively small library of skins and themes for its software to support its customers.  And that could be done quite inexpensively. 

As for advertising, okay, let's say WC gets $50k per year (it hasn't ever before but let's just say it does), so now we're down to $250k.  Subscriptions bring in an additional $50k.  That leaves $200k. 

There's no that WC is the equivalent of $200k in marketing expenses.  WinCustomize.com didn't help DesktopX very much versus Konfabulator (for instance).  Everyone's heard of Konfabulator. Few have heard of DesktopX. Why? Marketing. If Stardock had $200k more in marketing dollars I suspect its products would be better known.  WC is a sink hole for Stardock.  And that's going to stop one way or the other.  We love WinCustomize but if the 3 million people who visit it monthly don't care, then why should we? We can refocus the site on those who do care.

I would personally put WC's "value" as a marketing channel at around $50k per year -- at best.   A site getting 22 million visitors (3 million of which are unique) should be able to get 1,000 of them on a normal month to subscribe.  That would be $240k per year. Throw in say $60k per year in advertising and you're at $300k.  Then the $50k that SD can justify can be spent improving WC further with new features, better speed, more reliability.