My point is that many people seem to think the man is off making the money and the little woman is sitting at home doing nothing, speding his hard earned money. Whether the wife is working outside of the house or not, she is definately contributing to the family. But I am working everyday, even if it is in the home. That is my point. I contribute.

I don't know that you have been a military spouse any longer than I have. And what attitude is that exactly. The one where I expect better from my husband than what I get?

greywar:

Sure it is, but it is in no way an excuse, a mitigating facotr, or a lessening of responsibility for anyone under their command.

No, I agree with that. There's a difference, however, between an excuse and a reason or influence. If a child is molested and then grows up to molest children, their molestation is an influence or a reason, but it is not an excuse. They are still responsible for what they've done. It is necessary to understand influence, however, if we want to keep ourselves from repeating bad behavior.

If I know that I'm going to be violent when I'm drunk, then I stop drinking. It's not an excuse for violence, but it does explain what prompted me to be violent.

I'll finish replying in a few. I've got to go pick my kid up from school.

I can't get out - I'm not in. I have no stripes on my sleeve. He does have a sucky command. I am sure I'm not half the woman or military wife you are. I can only someday hope to reach your level of enlightenment - where I can be a shining example to all other younger military spouses everywhere. And if they have any problems or concerns, I will very helpfully tell them they are not cut out for it and they should "get out".

The soldiers personal lives are reeviewed as well and if they do something to fuck up their readiness level (write bad checks, fuck their neighbor, shoot a dog) then the Soldier gets his nuts slammed in the UCMJ book because it is THEIR FAULT.

Which is why the command gives all sorts of briefings and counseling, etc. to try to help guide the Soldier and keep the Soldier from doing anything stupid. If they feel that their guidance can keep a Soldier from doing something stupid, why would their bad influence and instruction not have the opposite effect?

This is also fairly retarded and a great example of how badly tort reform is needed in this nation. The bar made this guy a drunk? I think not. No more than Jack Daniels should be held responisble for what people do when they drink it. You drink it, it is your fucking problem.

Maybe so, but that's the way it goes.

I don' t know your husband but if these examples are real then they are his responsiblity and no one elses. No one.

Well, I've gone into more detail than I should have, but not enough to paint a clear picture. My husband was (is, but not too much longer) in a shitty company where the leadership was incompetent and engaged in all the things I described.

What he was around, and his absence from his family, changed him. Things that were deplorable to him previously became acceptable in the presence of others who would cheer him on. Ever heard the saying, "One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch"? He learned a lot about himself and his vulnerabilities during his deployment.

He has never placed the blame on anyone else, and trust me, I've held him accountable and then some.

However, in healing I've learned to understand how he was capable of doing such a hurtful thing when it is so out of character for him. It's not about assigning blame so much as understanding human behavior and how our surroundings influence us.

Which is why it's important for the leadership to provide appropriate examples.

Only fair that I get to respond in the same person don't you think?

I don't think it's necessary to call my husband a "child" or a "retard" for making a mistake that millions of people make. He's one of the most upstanding people I know, and I really object to him being characterized that way. We all do things we regret.

I've put him through hell over this, and even cheated on him with another Soldier. He has stayed with me. Begged me to stay, actually. He has jumped through every hoop I've put in front of him. He is full of anguish and remorse for the choice he made, and he makes it up to me every single day.

He's human. He made a mistake. Ha, I guess since I'm saying all this that means I've forgiven him. I wondered if I ever would. Thanks for that.

I have outlasted everyone else on this thread! I WIN!

Muahahahhahahahhhaahaha!

don't know that you have been a military spouse any longer than I have. And what attitude is that exactly. The one where I expect better from my husband than what I get?

I've been doing this for 12 years. I've helped him sew on four ranks, I've seen him go from an Airman to an NCO. I've been married through seven deployments, countless TDY's, three schools and one academy. I've been married to a patrol cop, a dispatcher, a corrections officer and an investigator. I've supported him working on call 24-7 and I've celebrated more anniversaries, holidays and birthdays alone with the kids than I have with him home. I've been trained by the military to be a Key Spouse so I could try and help people like yourself get through their issues; and I did that job for 4 years, all of them unpaid.

Your attitude is that you blame the military for your problems. You seem to think that it's a fight between you and the military for your man, and the thing that I don't think you realize is that the military will win because they OWN him. It's not a fight; it IS possible to have a functional marriage AND a successful military career, but it's damn hard work and a hell of a lot of sacrifice.



For your information, I don't work because I'm recovering from surgery. I was almost killed in a car accident when my husband was remote for a year - he never came home and I had to struggle to recover - and I just now had the surgery to fix what i broke. Before the surgery I was working as a notary for the base legal office part time because I was technically disabled. I'm now in a back brace (and will be for another 2 months), have a 7" healing incision, amstill on narcotics for the pain and am not allowed to be upright for more than 2 hours at a time or on my feet for more than an hour without taking a break. So yeah, I sit and I knit, and I think that I've earned the right to do that.

Do all this, and more, much more...while your husband dates and sleeps with another woman and bitches at you constantly for things that are out of your control.

This is the first mention of anyone's husband here. Made by TW in comment#8. Apparently I am an asshole for following her lead.

I don't think it's necessary to call my husband a "child" or a "retard" for making a mistake that millions of people make.

If someone makes a childish mistake or a retarded decision then I will characterize them as such. The only things I have to go on here is what you used as examples. Don't want commentary on your examples? Don't use them then.

If someone makes a childish mistake or a retarded decision then I will characterize them as such. The only things I have to go on here is what you used as examples. Don't want commentary on your examples? Don't use them then.

Hahahaha...ok, well, I called you an asshole, so I guess we're even.

This is the first mention of anyone's husband here. Made by TW in comment#8. Apparently I am an asshole for following her lead.

Are you trying to say that this article WASN'T a spoof of Locamama's article? Cause I don't think anyone's going to buy that.

Are you trying to say that this article WASN'T a spoof of Locamama's article

Sure it was inspired by her article... Note that I didn't use her name, handle, or even link to her article. You said I was an asshole for referring to your husband when you used him first as an example. Now I am an asshole for writing in general terms about people not blaming the root cause oif their problems? Which is it? Asshole for writing about blaming the right folks and allowing others to be responsible for their own screw-ups or am I an asshole for follwing your lead? Should I have used her handle in the title and linked to it while screeching about her personally? Frankly I think heaping scorn on an idea is a lot more palatable than attacking someone personally. I don't think LM is stupid, I simply think that the *idea* of blaming the Navy was stupid.

Normal, intelligent people can still have stupid ideas and those ideas need to be lanced like boils.

You said I was an asshole for referring to your husband when you used him first as an example.

The first example was generalized. Some of what you're attributing to him is simple example. That's my fault for not being clear.

I could clarify our situation and pry out what was real and what was example from the comments I posted, but I don't particularly feel like it.

So, my bad.

You're right...I put him in there, in an attempt to give a real life example of what I was talking about but I muddled it up, which would obviously be confusing. I started the personal stuff.

PS - I don't think you're an asshole. I think you've acted like an asshole. Are you saying that you're acting like an asshole in response to the things I've written? Did I influence your actions?

Who is responsible for your acting like an asshole? Me or you? Both?

Sure it was inspired by her article... Note that I didn't use her name, handle, or even link to her article.

I don't think that made it any less hurtful to her.

GW, you may have changed the focus of your article with your comments. But this did not start out as a commentary about blaming the military for other problems. Also my article was not titled the Navy sucks - it was titled my husband is an ass. The military just happens to be a contributing factor to his assiness.

The military just happens to be a contributing factor to his assiness.

That's what he refuses to recognize. It's not blaming anything. It's realizing that outside factors influence our behavior. We don't live our lives in a vacuum.

Dharma, I don't care if you work or don't work, knit or don't knit or why you do any of it. You are so condescending and have such a superior attitude that I really don't care what you say. St. Dharma, patron saint of junior enlisted spouses everywhere.

Wow you volunteered to be a key wife, very impressive. I am sure they all appreciated your words of wisdom how they should "get out" if they can't handle it. And I would like to know how many men retire from the military happily married to the spouse they were with when they joined. I think the numbers would astound everyone. Good military marriages are few and far between. I recall a post of your own that all wasn't bliss in your household either. But hey I'm just blaming the military for my problems.

And wow you have 11 months in more than I do as a dependant. You seem to be one of the wives who wears her husbands rank on her sleeves. I know that its his career not mine. I'm just along for the ride until its time to get off. And lately that time looks closer and closer.

And I would like to know how many men retire from the military happily married to the spouse they were with when they joined. I think the numbers would astound everyone. Good military marriages are few and far between.

Last year alone, there were more than 10,000 divorces in the U.S. Army. Since the start of the Iraq war two years ago, the divorce rate among enlisted personnel is up 28 percent — and for officers it's up 78 percent.

Link

I don't have much to say on this since I wasn't in the military long, wasn't married while I was, no kids at the time, etc. I think the term is Peer Pressure, when you see the people around you cheating and bragging about it, and you see it long enough, either you'll feel dumb and transfer, or follow the herd, basic peer pressure. We have all encountered it, be it the way we dress, if we have premarital sex, the peer pressure to get married and have children, be a SAHM/WAHM/Career mom.

Blame the guy and his peers, they are equally to blame. When you marry military personal, you marry the military. I think everyone has made great points here.

I personally think it's harder to stay at home while the spouse works since there is less adult contact, you have to be a full out self starter, cleaning up messes you didn't make and again, very little adult contact. I personally miss working outside of the home. I love my kids, I love my parents, but I miss having friends at work.

Infidelity sucks, been there, done that, never going back. Difference is, my ex didn't have pressure to cheat, he just did, and then again and again, 5 women total, one of them my "best friends" that I don't talk to anymore for obvious reasons. My cross to bear i guess.

However, I do blame the military (and again, it's not like this throughout, but it's not exactly rare, either) for providing an atmosphere where debauchery and neglect of family responsibilities are encouraged.

The leadership IS responsible for their Soldiers' well being in as much as they can impact it.

Why not change that line...."Microsoft is responsible for their employee's well being in as much as they can impact it." If a CEO of a company flaunts an affair and gets his sec. to cover for him, the employees are still responsible for living a moral life. It doesn't matter what is flung in your path and you can't blame your surroundings for your mistakes. "Oh I live in a ghetto and my neighbors are crack dealers and whores....I guess I'm not to blame for choosing the same path."

You can't expect anyone...military or not, to be responsible for holding your hand so you don't get hurt or do stupid shit.

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over this, but I will tell you that i have more years of military spousehip under my belt than you do, and that your attitude is one a see a lot amongst younger wives.

You would do well to listen to Dharma. I see the same attitude all the time and it pisses me off. Too many young military families are filled with the same attitude and therein lies their downfall.

Lifehappens:

Why not change that line...."Microsoft is responsible for their employee's well being in as much as they can impact it."

The military is far different from a civilian job. The military is a lifestyle. It permeates every aspect of your life.

If a CEO of a company flaunts an affair and gets his sec. to cover for him, the employees are still responsible for living a moral life. It doesn't matter what is flung in your path and you can't blame your surroundings for your mistakes. "Oh I live in a ghetto and my neighbors are crack dealers and whores....I guess I'm not to blame for choosing the same path."

Please read carefully:

I'm NOT saying that the military is to BLAME for the actions of the Soldiers. I am saying that the environment in the military WHICH YOU CANNOT ESCAPE (particularly on deployment) can INFLUENCE your decisions. YOU are still responsible for your bad decision. The military is responsible for INFLUENCE that contributes to the Soldiers' downfall.

The military needs to clean up the INFLUENCE. NCOs need to lead by example. Every Soldier deserves good, steadfast leaders that will not lead them down the wrong path.

No, I'm not kidding. We are all responsible for our own actions. However, I do blame the military (and again, it's not like this throughout, but it's not exactly rare, either) for providing an atmosphere where debauchery and neglect of family responsibilities are encouraged.

What utter NONSENSE! Neglect family? Lady I don't know what unit your old mans in, but what you stated is NOT the case across the board. And before you start Tex you "know" I was in. In for 6 and in the Navy. In more different commands then I care to try and remember. But one thing I DO know in all of them one thing was a constant! Neglect your family and face captains mast!

You really have no idea what you are talking about. I appreciate that my husband goes to work everyday and provides for our family. I know that his command sucks big time and that he is stuck there for at least another year and a half. My point is that he goes on det. I am not sitting on my ass watching soaps, knitting scarves and eating bon bons. I do daycare over ten hours a day. I change poopy diapers and wipe snotty noses and contribute to this household. And when my day is over do I get to punch out and relax and enjoy myself and do whatever I want. No I still have three kids of my own to take care of. I do not get thirty days of paid leave a year. I do not get to call in and come in late because I was up late the night before. I have to drag my ass out of bed every morning whether I feel like it or not.

He's in the Navy for christ's sake! Of course he goes on det. Better that than a "full" time deployment. It could be worse, he could be assigned to a submarine. Deployment on them can be over a year in length. I was in uncle sam's canoe club for 6 years (US Navy)....and YES I was married. Your husband is a jerk for not helping at home! Ok he's an asshat! Is it the Navy's fault? NOPE!
The way I see it you have 2 major choices here.
1. Suck it up and quit complaining or...
2. Divorce him.

I wouldn't be so quick to say someone on this list doesn't know what they're talking about when it comes to this. Most on here are either active military, prior military or a military spouse. So grow up.

What utter NONSENSE! Neglect family? Lady I don't know what unit your old mans in, but what you stated is NOT the case across the board. And before you start Tex you "know" I was in. In for 6 and in the Navy.

Yes, NEGLECT family obligations. Generally, the military has improved over the years as far as accommodating and aiding families has gone. There are now tons of programs to help the spouses, the children, the couple, and the family unit.

Army-wide there is a push to support the families because not worrying about the family back home makes it easier for the Soldier to focus on the mission...and if the wife is happy with the lifestyle, the Soldier is more likely to reenlist.

However, on the company and unit level (in my husband's at least) there is a disrespect for the family. Army life is not, by nature, family-friendly. In my husband's company (and I'm sure he's not alone in this respect) family time and family values are shunned and degraded by the Soldiers and the NCOs. While deployed, the Army counselor he was assigned encouraged my husband to get a divorce and told him that he would have more money and freedom if he were to do so.

The Army is NOT about family. The Army is about the mission. If supporting families helps the Soldier accomplish the mission, then that is what the Army will do. And that's fine. I'm not here to complain about that.

However, it takes a strong and flexible family to thrive (and sometimes even survive) in that environment. I'm very proud of how well my family has dealt with all the struggles and problems Army life has brought our way. I think we are a stronger and more bonded family because of it.

PS - My "old man"?

1. Suck it up and quit complaining or...

OR suck it up and vent when she needs to...which seems to be what she's doing. They've been in for 11 years, so apparently she deals with it ok.

Yes, NEGLECT family obligations. Generally, the military has improved over the years as far as accommodating and aiding families has gone. There are now tons of programs to help the spouses, the children, the couple, and the family unit.

We're not talking about over the years. I'm talking about 1975-1981. "Most" of the programs you're referring to have been in place for a "long" time. But you "are" correct in one thing. It takes a "strong" family to even survive in that environment.

PS - My "old man"?

Alright, I apologize. "Your husband".....

Suck it up and quit complaining or... OR suck it up and vent when she needs to...which seems to be what she's doing. They've been in for 11 years, so apparently she deals with it ok.

Ya see it's her exact attitude that cost me my marriage while I was in. I have talked to my ex about it and she has admitted that she believes the breakup to be mostly her doing.

Most" of the programs you're referring to have been in place for a "long" time.

No, there are a lot of new programs. If you'd like I can look up the names and the dates they were incorporated, but I'd rather save myself the trouble and just have you take me at my word.

Alright, I apologize. "Your husband".....

Thanks.

Ya see it's her exact attitude that cost me my marriage while I was in. I have talked to my ex about it and she has admitted that she believes the breakup to be mostly her doing.

I think she's just frazzled and discouraged. The best thing we can do for her is encourage her, be a safe place for her to talk things out, and help her look at the bright side.