Frogboy Frogboy

Overdog worship

Overdog worship

One of the trends I've noticed in "Generation Y" that's different from Generation X and especially the baby boomers is that members of Generation Y seem to automatically want to side with the overdog.

Nothing exemplifies this attitude more than the stark attitude differences about Microsoft. If you polled the typical 18 year old techie about Microsoft, you would find that they overwhelming believe Microsoft's technologies are great, innovative, and solid. Ask Generation X and a lot of skepticism shows up. And by the time you get to the baby boomers you have to weed out the profanity used to describe it.

For us at Stardock, this really bites hard because we make software that extends the OS. As a result, any time Microsoft adds something that works similarly to what we make, the overdog worshippers begin dissing our software. Often times the similarities are almost identical. Yet, if you add the Microsoft logo to our stuff, it magically becomes better, faster, smaller, etc.

It's a rather surreal experience seeing young techies equating software written by Microsoft as small, fast, efficient, and relatively bug free. I actually don't have a negative view of Microsoft's coding abilities. I think they write software a bit better than average when compared to other mega corporations. I do believe that their internal developer culture is inadvertently harmful to third party innovation. That's because developers at Microsoft are allowed to work on, in their free time, additional software projects and from what I've seen, these often end up being "inspired" by third party software rather than original creations. But there's a big difference between Freeware written by Joe freeware author and someone at Microsoft. Anything released by Microsoft gains the air of legitimacy that no third party can get.

And that brings us back to the overdog worshipping. In Windows XP, the OS supports being "skinned". The OS comes with Windows XP style blue, silver, and green. But if you're willing to hack out the digital signing protection, you can download and copy into your system directory additional themes. The msstyles format is pretty decent overall. But it's not very powerful. It was made to make the Windows XP style and as long as you're willing to basically stick with themes that are pretty basic, you can have some variety.

Our company, by contrast, makes WindowBlinds. A program that extends Windows XP to natively support skinning too. We use pretty much the same APIs so we're just as "native". The difference is that our skin format is much more advanced since our program only exists to skin and wasn't designed around a particular design.

Yet on some of the techie sites that are so frequented by Generation Ys, you would think our software was buggy crap. Often times the alleged faults with it are exactly the same faults that exist with the included msstyles (because we use the same APIs). And none of these faults are what a normal person would consider significant.

But that's where the underdog worship really takes off. All manner of faults are imagined to exist for our software and the only thing these faults have in common is that we're not from Microsoft.

Let me give you some examples to show you just how far some of the overdog worshippers will go:

Claim: There are no good skins for WindowBlinds, they're all fat and useless.

Msstyles supports only very basic skins. WindowBlinds is a superset format, it can do that plus pretty much anything else you can imagine.

Let me show you some screenshots to show you what we've been doing for years:

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-nov99.jpg (November 1999)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-apr00.jpg (April 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-july01.jpg (July 2001)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-july00.jpg (July 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-aug00.jpg (Aug 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-nov02.jpg (Nov 2002)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-jan03.jpg (Jan 2003)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-mar03.jpg (Mar 2003)

WindowBlinds can do any visual style that msstyles can since it's a superset. And in fact, with going on 3000 skins for it, there are many many minimalistic skins available.

In short, this is a baseless claim. But you see, because msstyles is so limited in what it can do and because it's Microsoft, then these limitations are "good". You can bet that if the tables were reversed these same people would be claiming that our software was too limited.

Claim: WindowBlinds uses too much memory!

WindowBlinds uses around 2 megabytes less ram when a skin is applied than msstyles does. In short, this claim is simply made up. But we hear it all the time. It's so easy to tell that it's not true, XP has a task manager that shows how much memory is allocated.

Claim: WindowBlinds skins crash my apps!

WindowBlinds uses the same APIs as XP. It's no more likely to crash an app than msstyles is.

Msstyles, as a format, are like .BMP. They get the job done. WindowBlinds is a lot like .PNG files. PNG has advantages over .BMP such as alpha channel support, compression, etc. But if these two formats were remaed .MSIMG and .IMG or something, I bet you would have a lot of people claiming that .BMP is "Better".

The really sad thing is that these overdog worshippers don't realize that if they had their way, they'd likely be worse off. Needless to say, Microsoft doesn't support people hacking their system DLL so that they can patch in additional unsigned msstyle files. The next version of Windows, code-named Longhorn is already available via various "channels" in early beta. Guess what? .msstyles is no longer supported. Microsoft isn't in the skinning business. They make OSes and their top priority is producing a great OS. They have their hands full with compatibility on things that actually matter let alone worrying whether skins made by people who are hacking out their security features to work are going to be taken care of or not.

But imaging if the overdog worshippers got their way and we disappeared. We're the only realistic alternative. Do they really want to be at the mercy of Microsoft? What most people don't realize is that Microsoft's internal culture makes individual developers there very important. The only reason why Windows XP even has an msstyles "format" is because a couple of developers there decided to create a format rather than hard code it. Imagine if they leave? There's no business justification to continue supporting skinning. So if not in Longhorn, at some point, odds are they'd be out of luck. And bear in mind, it took years for WindowBlinds to get to where it is today.

This is just one story in a cosmic book of stories on how there's an increasing tendency for young techies to blindly worship whoever is dominant. An almost innate desire to be on the winning team seems to have gripped the young techie culture. I wonder how many of them have considered the long term implications of such over dog worship.
61,025 views 228 replies
Reply #101 Top
WinAMP was the first 'public face' of skinning.....what initiated skinning's popularity/public awareness...
Reply #102 Top
HAHAHA!!!

I knew it. WinAMP owes me money... retroactive.
I invented the internet you know.
Reply #103 Top
Maybe that is the miscomunication on msstyles? history coming to bite in the ... because it all started as a hack in some kids room.

So somehow WB is looked as a hack even though it gets MS support.


Reply #104 Top
no, WB doesn't change dlls, it just intercepts the windows calls, if I understand it correctly. Nothing physical is changed about your OS, you just run an app that interprets the UI.
Reply #105 Top
CAM 2 in a stock fuel injected 350cid unlead engine on a regular basis sounds like melted
piston tops to me, or plug electrodes at least.

Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #106 Top
bakerstreet, you are correct, we use standard windows calls and APIs to run (that is how you can "unload" WindowBlinds and keep using your system.....you can't do that if we hacked dlls).

I'm thinking anything that hacks MS security (which is what digital signing is in that dll) would be a bad thing and would cause them to say "not my problem- you're the one who hacked the dll" and cause them not to give support if you needed it. But, that's just my thoughts and not official word from MS.
Reply #107 Top
heres a little something that should help out everyone who is mad/annoyed with me

scratch everything I have said and lets start on a clean slate.
Reply #108 Top
Done...
Reply #109 Top
I am 17 and to me and a lot of people i know MICROSOFT IS EVIL! BILL GATES IS EVIL!!!! If i had the money I would have gotten a mac a long time ago,
Reply #111 Top
I am Generation "Y" and I guess I don't follow the norm... I love windowblinds... and well I have always thought of windowblinds as the only way to do this... :/ ... I knew of other programs... but first thing I do is spot how much they differ from Stardock's product and I see what they are lacking... also when I first used windowblinds it was the only thing that did what it does... back then windows 98 was just coming out... and it let me get the cool new fade effect on windows 95 (seems kinds cheesy now )... and every one went crazy when I tured my IBM into a mac... (because mac's weren't cool then) so to cut this statement of mine short... I found a good solid product, and stuck with it... Stardock has experience with what they do, and other companies don't specialize in what stardock does, and haven't been doing it for as long, so how can these other companies ever make a product as reliable??? guess what, they can't

Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #112 Top
and bill gates isn't evil... he's just really smart... he makes a lot of money and wants to keep it that way... steve jobs is the exact same way...

Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #113 Top
and I mean the fade effect on the title bars... in win 98... with the colors... he he he...

Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #114 Top
Micro soft isn't evil. they make good stuff.

it just that monolopy thing that bother me. didn't we get enough of that in the 20's?
Reply #115 Top
I personally think it's unfair to call MS a monopoly. Everyone is just jealous because they did everything better. So what if they buy out their competition?? We destroyed our threat in the middle east! MS should just buy Apple and turn it's warehouses into evil offices designed to decode all those damn Windows XP error reports and spy on you! But so what????? They must of done something right to get in that position! Don't hate, just fear!
Reply #116 Top
Joe: about "owning your system", it's not exactly like that legaly. You don't own your copy of Windows XP, you're just using it. Only Microsoft owns XP. Just like somebody who downloads a wallpaper of yours doesn't own it either, he's just using it. If you actually OWNED your copy of Windows XP, then there would be no pirating cases, since you'd be allowed to do what you want with your own stuff, right? So, in short, when you purchase a product, you're actually buying a user licence and are bound to the user agreements.

About this whole generation Y thing and the overdog worship, I don't know if I agree or not. I think most of those kids don't see MSSTYLES as being Microsoft, so therefore the "big guy", but I think in their mind, they see it as "free", so therefore good.
Reply #117 Top
Hus, a monopoly means that a company controls the market (no or little competition) and therefore can charge whatever they want for their products.

Microsoft is exactly doing that. They charge double of what they should for Windows, and for Office.
Reply #118 Top
paxx: to play the devil's advocate, I would have agreed with you on price if we were talking about win2000. XP though is $99 US, though, right? Not what you would call a huge expense for something that is such a huge endeavor to develop...
Reply #119 Top

To recap, frogboy said:

Plainsong: There does tend to be not a lot of tolerance for nonsense. I can be pretty cranky myself. Kona makes me cranky because he clearly is clueless on what he's talking about but seems to insist that what he is saying is somehow grounded in reality

That's very true, which is why I said "the one thing" I agree with. I don't think he's ever used a mac and I don't think he knows much of what he's talking about. It's a tough message board to be on, with lots of silly posts from angry little children. I know I'd be less tolerant if I were a regular here myself. So while I said that the friendliness has gone a tad downhill, it's not without sympathy.

Kona, you see, it's not the program you're blaming, but the skins. Windowblinds could well skin more of WinXp, only you can't find the particular skin you're looking for since no one has made one that is truly mac-like. There's a reason for that. Aqua was done to death in the Windowblinds world long before WinXp was even released. That's not to say it prevents you from making the be-all, end-all Aqua skin for Windowblinds. It would skin more than the StyleXp version at any rate.

If you want to search for skins by me, you'll see exactly one. It's the screenshot I was referring to earlier. That screenshot was taken from a real mac running Os 10.2.3.
Reply #120 Top
I know what OS X looks like I'm using it right now. In fact if you tell me how to do screenshots I will show you.

As far as the rest, this conversation is dead to me.

And I have used a mac.
Reply #121 Top
BTW last time I checked I was 27 so I'm far from being a child although I act like one.
Reply #122 Top
Kona you make out like you're some kind of computer guru and you can't even take a screenshot of your desktop???!!! get a grip!

clue: press "Print Screen" jeez!
Reply #123 Top
I heard it dosn't work that way on a mac. and for your information, I'm not a guru, I just work for one.
Reply #124 Top
my mac keyboard dosen't even have a print screen button. clue: help me out by not yelling at me.
Reply #125 Top
Oh, I know you're not a guru, believe me.