Frogboy Frogboy

Overdog worship

Overdog worship

One of the trends I've noticed in "Generation Y" that's different from Generation X and especially the baby boomers is that members of Generation Y seem to automatically want to side with the overdog.

Nothing exemplifies this attitude more than the stark attitude differences about Microsoft. If you polled the typical 18 year old techie about Microsoft, you would find that they overwhelming believe Microsoft's technologies are great, innovative, and solid. Ask Generation X and a lot of skepticism shows up. And by the time you get to the baby boomers you have to weed out the profanity used to describe it.

For us at Stardock, this really bites hard because we make software that extends the OS. As a result, any time Microsoft adds something that works similarly to what we make, the overdog worshippers begin dissing our software. Often times the similarities are almost identical. Yet, if you add the Microsoft logo to our stuff, it magically becomes better, faster, smaller, etc.

It's a rather surreal experience seeing young techies equating software written by Microsoft as small, fast, efficient, and relatively bug free. I actually don't have a negative view of Microsoft's coding abilities. I think they write software a bit better than average when compared to other mega corporations. I do believe that their internal developer culture is inadvertently harmful to third party innovation. That's because developers at Microsoft are allowed to work on, in their free time, additional software projects and from what I've seen, these often end up being "inspired" by third party software rather than original creations. But there's a big difference between Freeware written by Joe freeware author and someone at Microsoft. Anything released by Microsoft gains the air of legitimacy that no third party can get.

And that brings us back to the overdog worshipping. In Windows XP, the OS supports being "skinned". The OS comes with Windows XP style blue, silver, and green. But if you're willing to hack out the digital signing protection, you can download and copy into your system directory additional themes. The msstyles format is pretty decent overall. But it's not very powerful. It was made to make the Windows XP style and as long as you're willing to basically stick with themes that are pretty basic, you can have some variety.

Our company, by contrast, makes WindowBlinds. A program that extends Windows XP to natively support skinning too. We use pretty much the same APIs so we're just as "native". The difference is that our skin format is much more advanced since our program only exists to skin and wasn't designed around a particular design.

Yet on some of the techie sites that are so frequented by Generation Ys, you would think our software was buggy crap. Often times the alleged faults with it are exactly the same faults that exist with the included msstyles (because we use the same APIs). And none of these faults are what a normal person would consider significant.

But that's where the underdog worship really takes off. All manner of faults are imagined to exist for our software and the only thing these faults have in common is that we're not from Microsoft.

Let me give you some examples to show you just how far some of the overdog worshippers will go:

Claim: There are no good skins for WindowBlinds, they're all fat and useless.

Msstyles supports only very basic skins. WindowBlinds is a superset format, it can do that plus pretty much anything else you can imagine.

Let me show you some screenshots to show you what we've been doing for years:

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-nov99.jpg (November 1999)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-apr00.jpg (April 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-july01.jpg (July 2001)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-july00.jpg (July 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-aug00.jpg (Aug 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-nov02.jpg (Nov 2002)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-jan03.jpg (Jan 2003)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-mar03.jpg (Mar 2003)

WindowBlinds can do any visual style that msstyles can since it's a superset. And in fact, with going on 3000 skins for it, there are many many minimalistic skins available.

In short, this is a baseless claim. But you see, because msstyles is so limited in what it can do and because it's Microsoft, then these limitations are "good". You can bet that if the tables were reversed these same people would be claiming that our software was too limited.

Claim: WindowBlinds uses too much memory!

WindowBlinds uses around 2 megabytes less ram when a skin is applied than msstyles does. In short, this claim is simply made up. But we hear it all the time. It's so easy to tell that it's not true, XP has a task manager that shows how much memory is allocated.

Claim: WindowBlinds skins crash my apps!

WindowBlinds uses the same APIs as XP. It's no more likely to crash an app than msstyles is.

Msstyles, as a format, are like .BMP. They get the job done. WindowBlinds is a lot like .PNG files. PNG has advantages over .BMP such as alpha channel support, compression, etc. But if these two formats were remaed .MSIMG and .IMG or something, I bet you would have a lot of people claiming that .BMP is "Better".

The really sad thing is that these overdog worshippers don't realize that if they had their way, they'd likely be worse off. Needless to say, Microsoft doesn't support people hacking their system DLL so that they can patch in additional unsigned msstyle files. The next version of Windows, code-named Longhorn is already available via various "channels" in early beta. Guess what? .msstyles is no longer supported. Microsoft isn't in the skinning business. They make OSes and their top priority is producing a great OS. They have their hands full with compatibility on things that actually matter let alone worrying whether skins made by people who are hacking out their security features to work are going to be taken care of or not.

But imaging if the overdog worshippers got their way and we disappeared. We're the only realistic alternative. Do they really want to be at the mercy of Microsoft? What most people don't realize is that Microsoft's internal culture makes individual developers there very important. The only reason why Windows XP even has an msstyles "format" is because a couple of developers there decided to create a format rather than hard code it. Imagine if they leave? There's no business justification to continue supporting skinning. So if not in Longhorn, at some point, odds are they'd be out of luck. And bear in mind, it took years for WindowBlinds to get to where it is today.

This is just one story in a cosmic book of stories on how there's an increasing tendency for young techies to blindly worship whoever is dominant. An almost innate desire to be on the winning team seems to have gripped the young techie culture. I wonder how many of them have considered the long term implications of such over dog worship.
61,014 views 228 replies
Reply #51 Top
BTW

I love 2 Stupid Dogs. I know I am making a mini suite for them. I just finished watching an epsisode and I am still laughing.



Ball! Corn!

Who else would look for a bone and travel around the world to find it. Of course it is sitting on top of your head the whole time.

Reply #52 Top
"Just use the arguement that these themes are providing free advertising or something like that."

lol, argue... with who? The judge? or your ISP when they shut you down?

**

I have had this creepy image of jj79_1999 and kona0197 being the same person, sitting and talking to himself here on the messageboard...
Reply #53 Top
i assure you were not the same person. I'm on your side remember?
Reply #54 Top
read post 38 and you'll see i tried to tell the guy about copyrights. How many times do i have to say I hate warez, ripping, kazaa, and stealing?
Reply #55 Top
jj79_1999...in this instance, listen to kona0197.
Copyrights IS the issue...
Reply #56 Top
Thanks jafo. I tried so hard to tell him I hope he understands.
Reply #57 Top
Jafo, I guess that it would be BaaaaaBra Walters then?



your bad, but very good at it


Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #58 Top
I have a lotr screenshot here of a wall made by Juni. He didn't post it because it used too many elements of other people's work, but it turned out nice none-the-less and I posted it so other people could see. Sadly, it's the only decent lotr wall I've ever seen.

As for the topic, I definately agree with Frogboy. Gen Y does tend to follow the leader a bit more, and conform while pretending to rebel.

The one exception was an ex best friend who swore up and down that windowblinds blew up her computer and broke her hard drive, but she had that affect on all her computers.
Reply #59 Top
kona0197, are you bipolar or something? In another thread you said:

#86 by kona0197 - 4/21/2003 12:09:58 AM
...I bet I'm not the only one using Kazaa. ...

Then, in this thread you say: "How many times do i have to say I hate warez, ripping, kazaa, and stealing?"

So, you use Kazaa but you hate it? How does that work? Or is it like when you said you hated all Chevy and Fords, but you love your Uncles Chevy and you drive a Ford?

First you say that WindowBlinds doesn't skin everything, but then what you *really* meant was that you couldn't find an aqua clone to skin everything. Hmmm...... not quite the same thing.

Oh, and Bakerstreet, you hit right on the money with post #52. People need to remember that this site is funded by a Corporation. A Corporation which does not wish to be sued for copyright or trademark infringement, and that is why we keep this site clean. If people were to make original art for fan art, than that is different. But taking a copyrighted image and turning it into a wall is not good. If other people want to make a LOTR wallpaper or theme using copyrighted graphics, feel free to host it on your own site.
Reply #60 Top
don´t loose your hope. there´s still a good chance to upload copyright infringing material here.
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=732
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=969
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=965
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=728
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=633
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=481
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=451
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=406
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=304
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=249
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=238
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=178
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=135
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=76
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=20
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=12
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=7 (yes, frogboy ripping Disney)
https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=26&SkinID=5
Reply #62 Top
Hmmm...

Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #64 Top
But he doesn't type quite as badly as aafus

Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #65 Top
there is that fan art again... pop culture. Alien theme, The Hulk, Simpsons... I know one thing, if it has a (c) symbol on it, its probably copywrited.



If its some general picture, you might be able to get away with it... if its not a person.

Can't use Aretha Franklin.
Can use Wizard of Oz.

Can't use Halle Berry
Can use Monster's Ball... to a point

Can't use Mickey Mouse
Can use Disney... to a point
Reply #66 Top
I thinkI lost myself there somewhere

Reply #68 Top
I think evil corporations go too far with copyrights and such. It seems to me that they are pushing more and more to limit our freedom of speech. Imagine not being able to type Spider-Man without getting sued for using a trademarked name without permission.

Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #69 Top
That's why it's trademarked. You wouldn't want someone stealing your hard work.
Reply #70 Top
I have always felt displaying other people's work on your own website is not that bad at all as long as the work is already freely distributed by the producer and you give the producer credit for the work rather than lying and saying you made it.

Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #71 Top
jj79: The creator of Spider Man is still alive. Should he not be allowed to profit from it? If people are allowed to give your work away, then you aren't getting paid.

Freedom of speech pertains to free expression of *your* thoughts and ideas. Copyrights are for *your* creations, or copyrights you legally purchase or license. If you can't come up with your own ideas, don't steal other people's. It's lame anyway. Don't argue this point anymore, no matter how good your argument is in your mind, the law is still *not* on your side, so it is pointless.

**

The only aspect of copyright that I am troubled about is the duration of copyright. It was never intended to be a permanent state. All things were intended to go into the public domain after their usefulness to the author and his/her direct heirs was enjoyed. Now, though, if Disney and others have their way, they will never find their way into the public domain.

**

Joe: Actually all those are 'can't's legally. I can't speak for WC's reasoning, though.

'Fair use' is using a portion of a work for descriptive purposes in a review, educational materials, court documents, journalistic work, etc. 'Fair Use' also includes parody, but that is usually held to a much higher standard; i.e. the original media is rarely used, rather it is remade, like a SNL skit or a caricature.

The only other thing that falls under 'fair use' is incidental inclusion, like someone with a Nike t-shirt walking past live newscoverage.

I am curious as to whether anyone will say anything about moshi's links...
Reply #72 Top
If you guys want to get into a trademark / copyright debate, start your own thread.

Getting back to the point - maybe it's my Inner OS/2 speaking here but it just seems bizarre that any sane person would be excited or hoping that Microsoft would bundle any technology into the OS that is already available either freely or cheaply.

Because once it's bundled, it's over. Once Active Desktop was bundled, Pointcast and Push technology was dead. Was it a bad concept? I don't know. We'll never know.

It's just so odd that anyone would want the OS vendor to also have control over the customization of the OS.

Besides the fact that they're "Free" if you're willing to mess around with your system DLLs, I can't see why people would run msstyles. I have a difficult time understanding it. I find them noticeably slower, and horribly inconsistent (i.e. I really don't like having half my machine looking like Windows 95. It's hard to go from WindowBlidns where skinning the OS means skinning pretty much everything to having just theme aware apps skinned) and just very limited.

Kona talks about making his PC like a Mac with Style XP. Huh? Msstyles can't do Aqua. Buttons on the wrong side. Borders are too thick. No roll-up button. For people who are really into that, people like Judge have some great stuff http://skins.stardock.com/Judge/wb/osxpngshot.jpg (that's JUST WindowBlinds running btw, Kona).

Anyway, on sites like Neowin, which is a great site mind you, I visit there constantly, a lot of the regular posters there just seem to have this worship of Microsoft and all things Microsoft. Very little consideration of "Hmm, maybe, just maybe that lots of alternatives would be a good thing.." It's bad enough that Thematic is gone, it would be nice if there were other serious alternatives to WindowBlinds out there, but I can't understand why anyone would be hopeful that third party alternatives would get creamed. Especially to the point where they're going out of their way to smear it with false info.
Reply #73 Top
sowwie... dey stawted it...
Reply #74 Top
Doesn't altering .dll files automatically violate your service agreement? I was thinking that was the case when you res-hack your boot screen in 2000.
Reply #75 Top
First things first: you all claim this is a family site but I feel no love here WHENEVER I come here. Everyone rags on me for my opinion. I've heard it a million times: "We respects others thoughts and views" but you guys really do not. More to the point the saying should be "My way or the highway" since the fact you must have the admins views and thoughts to have your voice heard here.

Karma:
It's a good thing I only hear from you once in awhile because you seem to bite my head of worse than Jafo at all times. I drive a Ford because I have to, I haven't got my Dodge yet. I like my uncles Chevy cuz it is a '57 (back when we made real cars) As for Kazaa, yes I use it but I don't have to like it. In fact, I only download songs I want to sample before I buy the album.

Frogboy:
You wrote:
"Kona talks about making his PC like a Mac with Style XP. Huh? Msstyles can't do Aqua."
If you go to google, search for Iceman's aqua. msstyles is used, and it looks exactly like OS X. I would know because if you remember, I have a Mac.

For the rest of you, including Jafo and the rest of the admins can't quit nit picking everything I say and disect every word I type to death I will have no choice but then to go to a site that will respect my ideas and views. Everyone has there faults, no one is perfect. I don't need everyone here pointing out my faults. I know what they are.

I have tried to be patient. I have tried telling everyone to leave me alone. I realize I bring it upon myself most times. As for what I contribute, I am currently trying to get a waraz/cracks site shut down so people can't DL stardock products and use a keygen to pirate their software. I never said I hate Stardock or this site but you people are trying my patience.

I am not holier than thou. I am a simple person who has many thoughts. Deal with it.

Nuff said.