erathoniel erathoniel

On Evil

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On Evil

Wonder what evil is?

from JoeUser Forums

Evil is any time man walks away from God, the Creator. This is anything from murder to "trivial" sins, such as gossip, or breaking the sabbath.

Man is born evil, and has no hope of salvation without Jesus Christ. The payment for accepting Christ is that we are allowed into heaven with God, and the evil in us is taken away by judgement. Then those who follow Jesus are allowed into Heaven, and given wonderful perfect life in a wonderful perfect world as the Earth was originally intended to be.

Evil is inherent in everything.

evil god jesus christ theology religion
16,649 views 105 replies
Reply #76 from JoeUser Forums Top
where things are true for one person and not for another.
End of quote


hold the phone!

if its hurtful to the world and our human community, its true for everyone that it is wrong.

the absence of family planning is one such wrong-doing. use condoms people
Reply #77 from JoeUser Forums Top
the absence of family planning is one such wrong-doing.
End of quote


Actually, bringing children into the world doesn't hurt the world OR our human community. Sorry, you lose.

One might argue that extending the life of the elderly causes greater harm. They are beyond childbearing years, and thus, cannot propagate the race; and the medical expense of keeping them alive is not justified by their output.
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #78 from JoeUser Forums Top
So true, seeing the world only through secular and atheistic humanism is very one dimensional too, Zoo!
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I don't. I can see the world from your point of view...but I prefer mine to that one.

At least I'm willing to try out new world views. You have become so entwined as to outright refuse anything that doesn't mesh precisely with your belief system- no matter the evidence or logic behind it.

~Zoo
Reply #79 from JoeUser Forums Top
One might argue that extending the life of the elderly causes greater harm
End of quote


Good point. I think we should start by taking you out.
I should have suspected this from the mormon.
Reply #80 from JoeUser Forums Top
^^^^

Actually he's not. I don't think so anyway.

Mormons are great. :D The ones on this site do a nice representation of the group. :)

~Zoo
Reply #81 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mormons are great.
End of quote


I happen to like Mormans, too. They gave me a great turkey dinner for free. The only issue I had was that one time during the meal when 10 guys in suits jumped me and told me I could have my own planet or some bullshit like that.
Reply #82 from JoeUser Forums Top
The only issue I had was that one time during the meal when 10 guys in suits jumped me and told me I could have my own planet
End of quote


They like to recruit. :)

~Zoo
Reply #83 from JoeUser Forums Top
I should have suspected this from the mormon.
End of quote


ha! He's not. So where does that leave you now?  :NOTSURE: 

Reply #84 from JoeUser Forums Top
So true, seeing the world only through secular and atheistic humanism is very one dimensional too, Zoo!


I don't. I can see the world from your point of view...but I prefer mine to that one.
End of quote


I don't either, Zoo. For I can see things through the secular/atheistic humanist pov but I prefer mine to that one.



Reply #85 from JoeUser Forums Top
ha! He's not. So where does that leave you now?
End of quote


He used to be a member of LDS, and he admits to continuing influence.
Reply #86 from JoeUser Forums Top
One might argue that extending the life of the elderly causes greater harm. They are beyond childbearing years, and thus, cannot propagate the race; and the medical expense of keeping them alive is not justified by their output.
End of quote


We can see how euthanasia (killing the aged and disabled) flows from abortion (killing the unborn). So yes, this is the argument that comes from those who think euthanasia is the way to go. With both the evil of abortion and euthanasia, society rids itself of those it decides is unwanted.
Reply #87 from JoeUser Forums Top
We can see how euthanasia (killing the aged and disabled) flows from abortion (killing the unborn). So yes, this is the argument that comes from those who think euthanasia is the way to go. With both the evil of abortion and euthanasia, society rids itself of those it decides is unwanted.
End of quote


Objection! Fallacy of non causa pro causa (slippery slope). Abortion does not lead to euthanasia.

Abortion should only be legal if the individual is terminated before it knew it existed.

Morning after pills. Use them.
Reply #88 from JoeUser Forums Top

Personally, I do not believe abortion is ever acceptable. Maybe if verifiable rape, a tad of a loop hole can be provided, at great expense to an individual. The moral costs are too great.

Honestly, I don't wanna live forever, but I do believe that an individual's continuation of life is up to them if they are viewed to be sane. Basically, I wouldn't wanna go on life support simply 'cause I'm old.

Reply #89 from JoeUser Forums Top
if they are viewed to be sane
End of quote


KILL THE CRAZIES. Ha ha. Just kidding. Bad choice of words.
Reply #90 from JoeUser Forums Top

Don't stop discussing now folks.  You're all doing great.  Despite Lulas attempt to hyperfocus on abortion in order to discredit a general point (which is much like proving that years do NOT have 365 days in them by proving that sometimes they have 366), the continued arguing about what IS right and what IS wrong (absolutism based on unproveable premises) is painting in living color the proof of my hypothesis.

 

Lula, if you're at all interested in discussing the point that I WAS making, then take a subject that's a little broader - like "Jesus is the Son of One God that created everything."  There are lots of groups that disagree.  These are the groups that all need to work together, along with those that hold that belief, before we blow up this wonderful place over the fact.

 

I have yet to see a retraction of the statement that "Evil is not working together to make the world a better place."  And since that was what my comments were directed to, maybe some honest fundamentalist (Christian or otherwise) will discuss my point in those terms instead of trying to prove a general point with one specific issue that doesn't cover the entirety of that point.  Until then, Lula and others, please continue to prove me right.  I knew you wouldn't let me down.

 

On a side note, I must wonder.  Is it a spear in the side of an American fundamentalist Christian that the USA holds dear that freedom of religion is an important value, or do they rather think that such a freedom is the will of Satan?

Reply #91 from JoeUser Forums Top
Until then, Lula and others, please continue to prove me right. I knew you wouldn't let me down.
End of quote


and that's what's important isn't it?  ;p 

Reply #92 from JoeUser Forums Top

and that's what's important isn't it?
End of quote

 

Hardly important at all except for the sadness of the truth of it. :CONGRAT:

Reply #93 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hardly important at all except for the sadness of the truth of it.
End of quote


oooooooohhhhhh but that's ok......because you're not a proponent of truth..... :SURPRISED: 
Reply #94 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yeah, define truth for me, Ock, that's something I never got the secular standpoint of.

Reply #95 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yeah, define truth for me, Ock, that's something I never got the secular standpoint of.
End of quote


If what I believe leads me to correctly predict the workings of reality and continues to do so, then with each correct prediction I come closer to knowing a truth. This is the scientific standpoint. Mathematicians believe that the entire world can be broken down and explained in quantifiable terms. Thus, ultimate truth comes from accounting for every single variable in the universe and formulating everything that will happen. Philosophers believe that the truth can be reached through reasoning.

Contradicting these paths, theologians think truth comes from correctly interpreting a book.
Reply #96 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Evil is not working together to make the world a better place."
End of quote


I never said that statement. Evil is disobedience to God. That's what evil is to a Christian. Working together to make the world a better place might be the will of God, and then it would be a sin to NOT do so.
Reply #97 from JoeUser Forums Top

Lula posts: #57
doesn't applying the reality of abortion work rather well in addressing OCKHAMSRAZOR's questions?
End of quote



OCK POSTS: #58
It exactly proves my point, Lula. Thanks.
End of quote


OCK POSTS: #90
Despite Lulas attempt to hyperfocus on abortion in order to discredit a general point
End of quote


OCK,

You're trying to have it both ways...again.

Of my using the example of the evil of abortion, you thank me for exactly proving your point and then, when you realize there is no wiggle room concerning the absolute objective truth that abortion is evil and therefore wrong, you now say I'm using abortion to discredit your point.


OCK POSTS:

what IS right and what IS wrong (absolutism based on unproveable premises)
End of quote


OCK POSTS #58
No belief is objectively provable.
End of quote


Is abortion killing a baby? Yes.
Is that belief objective? Yes.
Is that belief provable? Yes.

Is killing a baby in the womb an intolerable evil act? Yes.

OCK POSTS #58
No belief is objectively provable, so Christians support not working together over principles they cannot prove objectively to non-Christians to be true.
End of quote


Therefore, abortion is objectively, provable evil.

Evil is not working together to make the world a better place
End of quote


OCK POSTS: #46

I rather agree with this. But it's got a few potholes. If you claim sole knowledge of the definition of what makes the world a better place, you do so at the expense of others who think *they* know what makes the world a better place. And that isn't "working together." So what is the missing element? Tolerance of differences.
End of quote



Evil is tolerating the intolerable. Those who believe in God's absolute, "thou shalt not kill" will not tolerate the intolerable.


Reply #98 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good point. I think we should start by taking you out.
I should have suspected this from the mormon.
End of quote


<---not Mormon, NOR elderly. I was just making a rather salient point.
Reply #99 from JoeUser Forums Top
I admit to stockpiling food stores because of how I was raised. Had I been raised in any other faith with the same ethic, I'm sure it would have stayed with me. Yeesh, talk about stretching it!

My point was that even though I already stockpile food, I'm hardly unique in that area!
Reply #100 from JoeUser Forums Top

Lula, if you're at all interested in discussing the point that I WAS making, then take a subject that's a little broader - like "Jesus is the Son of One God that created everything."
End of quote


Christianity is the only religion which claims not only that God revealed something of Himself to mankind, including a partial account of Creation according to Genesis, but that He also entered into the world (God Incarnate) as a human being in the Person of Jesus CHrist. and then allowed Himself to be humiliated, suffer and be put to death, all out of love for His estranged subjects in order to satisfy the infinite justice of GOd who was offended by Original Sin. Only God could have made the reparation that has an infinite value but only as man could He have suffered, since in His divine nature He is implacable that is, He's incapable of undergoing change, e.g. suffering.

The concept of Special Creation reinforces the Christian view that objective truth does exist, and each human being has been given a specific nature i.e. one made in the image and likeness of God. Just as the laws of nature clearly have objective existence, objective truth can be shown to exist such as 2 + 2 can never equal other than 4.

The idea that man may create his own truth by exercising his free will is fallacious. Rather, truth exists outside of man and has to be discovered. In the experiences of life through which each individual passes, we can observe that there are moral absolutes which exist(abortion is evil is one). A set of objective truths is therefore essential to enable human beings to discern truth and realities.