Yes, pretty much.

Well then sir consider me a thorn in your side. Cause I don't deal in absolutes, and don't believe in blind obedience. I do live as good a life as I can, according to what I think is good. (no killing, stealing, etc...)

 

So how do you propose to work together to make the world a better place?  Do you think that those people who believe in something different than you will have any interest in cooperating with someone that labels them as evil with absolutely no concrete evidence that you are right in your beliefs and they are wrong in theirs?

 

Just make the statement.  Since you believe that God says it's his way or the highway, you say that, too, because if you don't, then you aren't staying in line with what God wants.  But none of you actually come out and say that.  Why is that?  Is it just possible that your gut twists a little when you think that way?

 

Don't feel bad.  That is the common denominator of all religions that include a deity and a book of doctrine.  "We're right, you're wrong, and I can't work with you because of it because that would take me out of alignment with what my doctrine says."  Now look around and see where that's gotten us and where it's taking us.  Are you SURE that's what your God wants?  Better be REAL sure.  A mistake here could be critical.

Apply the following comments to the barbaric practice of abortion on demand and you should understand.




His Fifth Commandment is "Thou shalt not kill". Those who condemn abortion are with Him and those who approve it are against Him.





That everyone recognize abortion for the evil that it is and ban it forever.



I'm absolutely, positively sure that God wants not even 1 more of His babies killed by abortion.

No, YOU look around and examine carefully where abortion on demand has gotten us.

I love when Lula comes in and derails a discussion with a supposedly 'hot-button' topic like abortion, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING that has been discussed in the last fifty-three comments on this article.

More proof that you're a one-trick pony, Lula.

SC, I really don't care if Lula says something you believe to be off topic. If Lula thinks it wrong, just listen and shoot down the idea, or agree with it. If you can't disagree, why complain?

Knock, knock, SanChonino,

What's this?....the world of lock-step blogging according to SC?

How is bringing up the topic of abortion "derailing" the discussion when the very title of the discussion is:



Isn't abortion evil through and through? If not to you, why not?

Also, as far as what I posted on abortion "HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING", doesn't applying the reality of abortion work rather well in addressing OCKHAMSRAZOR's questions?

I thought so, but it's OK by me if you don't agree.   

It exactly proves my point, Lula.  Thanks.  Christians, at least, can not work with all others because of fundamental differences in belief.  No belief is objectively provable, so Christians support not working together over principles they cannot prove objectively to non-Christians to be true.

 

I KNOW what you say God says.  But that's subjective, not objective.  Therefore, one or more groups of human beings are left out to dry.  

 

Thank you for so clearly illustrating the intolerance that I was speaking of.  I knew you or some other fundamentalist would come through with my point.  Well done.

I'm coming in late but to answer the question about whether we are born evil or not is an interesting one.  So are we born evil? 

Is sin evil? 

Because if it is, then we are born evil. 

King David wrote in Psalm 51 "I was brought forward in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Job asked "who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?"  "Who is born of a woman that he can become righteous?" 

Paul wrote later to the Romans that we are all covered in sin. Trying to clothe ourselves with the good works of righteousness is nothing but covering ourselves with filthy rags.  He also said that while we were enemies of God, Jesus died for us anyway.  Isn't an enemy of God considered evil?

He wrote to the Ephesians that we were dead in our sins.  Is that evil? 

I believe scripture teaches quite clearly we are all born into sin.  So the question is does that make us evil?   What is sin? 

To look at a newborn baby and say he's innocent is not theologically correct.  We must remember that God doesn't look at the outside he looks at the spirit.  He doesn't see a newborn baby like we do.  God is outside of time and knows exactly who this spirit is and will become. 

So the answer I believe is yes. 

 

I've always suspected that babies are evil. Crying during movies and crapping in their diapers. What could be more evil than a baby? The answer: nothing.

~Zoo

Zoo makes several valid points. Crying is very annoying, perhaps even evil. And as for crapping, need I really go into it?

I believe that abortion is killing a baby...

Is that belief objective? Yes.
Is that belief provable? Yes.





Let's examine this statement in light of the abortion issue.



OCK, it can't be both ways...either the killing of a baby by abortion is morally right or morally wrong.

I think a big difference between Christians and others, are that nearly all Christians deal in absolutes, while the others don't. They (christians) fail to understand differing opinions because they're so indoctrinated in their faith. They can't understand anything else, they always have to apply their faith to it.

Get what i mean?

Yes. I know. Blind faith is a serious detriment to reason.

Not necessarily blind faith, but they just...are so submerged in their faith, they have such a different spyglass so to speak, that they see things through.

oops, adding the rest

"...that is starkly contrast to science. I think it's why science and faith are always at each other. It's hard for either side to completely grasp each other."

And for some reason can't seem to switch to another.

Sad, really...to see the world so one dimensionally.

~Zoo

My answer is no, we are not born evil and here's why.

Yes, sin is evil, but there are two kinds of sin. Original sin (which we are born with)isn't evil and Actual sin, that is, the sin we actually knowingly, willingly commit in our lives.



All babies are born with original sin (which is the deprivation of original justice that Adam and Eve had but lost) and its effects. Original sin is not an evil.

As far as actual sin, babies are sinless until they grow to the age of reason and are able to knowingly and willingly commit actual sin.

It is, it really is. And it isnt just them, there are others too. I just happen to see that more often.

Woah, talk about deja vu.

SilentPoet,

Put what you have said here in terms of the abortion issue and please explain how I as a Catholic Christian fail to understand differing opinions?

Just answer this question....Is it an absolute that abortion kills the child in the womb?

So true, seeing the world only through secular and atheistic humanism is very one dimensional too, Zoo!

You don't believe in absolutes? I hope you head outside every day tethered to the ground because gravity is not an "absolute". I hope you plan for a sudden outage of the sun because its rising and setting is not an "absolute".

EVERYONE deals in absolutes, Silent Poet. Some are just more honest about it than others.

You want to disbelieve the Bible because you want to rationalize your lifestyle. And that is your choice to make and you should have the freedom to make it. But your wanting God to be any different than He actually is, will not for one second, make Him so.

I would encourage you to seriously explore the claims of scripture rather than mocking them. You'll find a surprisingly large number of absolutes contained within them.

Why? I'm not discussing abortion, I'm talking about over all with Christians. Specificlly with the bible.

The Bible says we do, too, not just you.

We are new creations. We are not like we were before accepting Jesus Christ. We can't go back to seeing things in the way you do, where things are true for one person and not for another. It's true for everyone, which means a lot of you are going to hell. Not because I said so, or because you didn't live right, but because you haven't accepted the sacrifice of Jesus.