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On Intelligent Design

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On Intelligent Design

I need more sleep, but I can still blog.

from JoeUser Forums

    Intelligent Design is proved by two scientific statements: Einstein's Theory of Relativity, and Occam's Razor. Basically, nothing can come from nothing, without an outside force. Therefore the universe must have been created. Occam's Razor would also prove this theory. "God created the Earth" is much more simple than any alternative. Also, any arguements for the contrary can be labled as free will (We have free will, but God must, to give us true free will, let us decide based on evidence). Also, mind you that we know nothing on the specifics of the Creation. If God willed it, we could have evolved from monocellular organisms, but, importantly, God made the universe, he knows what will happen, and anything that has or will happen has been mandated by him, as are all things happening at this time.

god jesus christ theology evolution intelligent design religion
23,155 views 162 replies
Reply #51 from JoeUser Forums Top
So wait, you're confirming what I'm saying. Evolution is a raping of the scientific method.
End of quote


I said this: "To submit untestable, unobservable mythology(Christian or otherwise) as science is a fundamental raping of our scientific method."

Obviously you lack reading skills and/or understanding of the content.



See, this is exactly why creationists don't get taken seriously. No research, no evidence, nothing...they don't even try. Playing with words is fun and all, but it proves nothing. Stay in philosophy and religion where that actually matters.

~Zoo
Reply #52 from JoeUser Forums Top
OCK,
This defies common sense and reason becasue the universe is made up of finite things each had a beginning. The universe points to Almighty God, the first Cause of all things visible and invisible.

Silentpoet posts:

But by that statement right there. (See bold) If everything points to having a beginning, then how can there be an exception? It would make the entire point of everything having a beginning, null and void. Think about it, if, as you state, common sense and reason says that everything has to have a source, then what about God?
End of quote


That which we know from common sense and reason is the universe consists of matter and matter didn't always exist and won't always exist.

The answer to your question is Almighty God is the First Cause of everything visible and invisible (angels). The universe presupposes a Cause, a being necessarily outside the thing produced. This uncreated Cause this Eternal Being having no cause, no beginning Christians name God.
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Reply #53 from Stardock Forums Top

You don't have to thank me for the comment editing, Lula.

I agree, by the way.

Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sense is anything but common.

Like music is composed of sound and silence, so the universe is composed of matter and space. I can find no reason why all the matter in the universe would suddenly pop out of existence, so I'm going to say that "common sense" would suggest it will always be here until forcibly removed with his noodly appendage by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

At any rate, Lula - that's a swing and a miss. The premise is that Thing X cannot exist without a cause. Do I really need to go back and quote what I was responding to again? If nothing can exist without a cause, then God can't either. If God CAN exist without a cause, then so could the universe.

Now if you wanted to suggest that the universe itself is God, that would at least be an interesting philosophical discussion. This current line of thinking? Not so much.
Reply #55 from JoeUser Forums Top
On second thought, I probably do.

Basically, nothing can come from nothing, without an outside force.
End of quote
Reply #56 from JoeUser Forums Top
Matter cannot come from nothing. God is not matter.
Reply #57 from JoeUser Forums Top
As we do not know how the world was specifically created, it always helps to have more opinions.
End of quote


That's fine...but you see, the issue is that OPINIONS ARE NOT SCIENCE!

~Zoo
End of quote


I meant on the Creation. Not evolution or whatnot. Evolution is an opinion.
End of quote


Here's my opinion!!!

We know that God created the universe and all life that's in it by faith, not opinion.

Believing Creation is true by faith is deeply mysterious..at the same time, it's extremely interesting as well as a real adventure to see science (like molecular biology and genetics) little by little affirming our belief.

Dogmatic Evolutionists try to blow off the mystery...remove the Creator and instead make evolutionary theory the only cause.



Reply #58 from Stardock Forums Top

Matter cannot come from nothing. God is not matter.
End of quote

 

How do you know that for sure?

 

I just quoted what the OP said.  He said "nothing" aka "no thing."

 

If God exists, then God is an object of some sort aka a THING, which makes him a subset of all things to which the words "no thing" or "nothing" applies.  If he is not an object of some sort then he cannot be distinguished in any rational way.  If he can not be distinguished in any rational way, then assigning properties to him is equally irrational.

 

Reply #59 from JoeUser Forums Top
If nothing can exist without a cause, then God can't either. If God CAN exist without a cause, then so could the universe.
End of quote


Unfortunately in this scenario, nothing has nothing to work upon and no faculties with which to operate, so we are, therefore, forced to admit an Eternal God.

I believe that God created the universe, time, space and all matter, ex nihilo "out of nothing". God says that's how His Creation began and He must know for He was the only one who was there and God cannot deceive or be deceived.

God did not make the universe out of nothing as carpenters make tables out of wood. God did not make nothing into the universe. The correct sense of "out of nothing" is this: God made the universe but did not make it out of any pre-existing matter. Apart from God Who always was, is and ever will be, before Creation, there was nothing. God willed and there was something..thus Creation began. God does not need anything previous to work upon. He simply wills a thing to be and it is. Just like the water changed into wine at the wedding at Cana. When the time was right, Christ willed it and the wine was there....instantly.











Reply #60 from JoeUser Forums Top
So you seem to think evolution is wrong. Forgive me for even bothering to question...but, uh...how?
End of quote


Macro-Evolution is wrong because it's pseudo-scientific speculation purported to school children as fact.





Reply #61 from JoeUser Forums Top


This is the Evolutionary formula for making the universe:

Nothing + nothing = 2 elements + time = 92 natural elements + time = all physical laws and a completely structured universe of galaxies, systems, stars, planets, and moons orbiting in perfect balance and order.

This is the evolutionary formula for making life:

Dirt + water + time = living creatures

Reply #62 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is the Evolutionary formula for making the universe:

Nothing + nothing = 2 elements + time = 92 natural elements + time = all physical laws and a completely structured universe of galaxies, systems, stars, planets, and moons orbiting in perfect balance and order.

This is the evolutionary formula for making life:

Dirt + water + time = living creatures
End of quote


Zoo just went off about this. That's not evolution. Evolution is Species + time = new species. That's it.
Reply #63 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now if you wanted to suggest that the universe itself is God, that would at least be an interesting philosophical discussion.
End of quote


No, I couldn't/wouldn't ever suggest that....becasue believing that the universe itself is God ends up as cultivated atheism.



Reply #64 from JoeUser Forums Top
Zoo just went off about this. That's not evolution. Evolution is Species + time = new species. That's it.
End of quote


How about dirt + water + time = species + time = new species?
Reply #65 from JoeUser Forums Top
Zoo just went off about this. That's not evolution. Evolution is Species + time = new species. That's it.
End of quote


Wow...thank ya, Jyth. :)

How about dirt + water + time = species + time = new species?
End of quote


Dirt + water + time = mud...that's all. :P

Abiogenesis is what you're looking to combat. :) And feel free to do so, it's nowhere near being close to figuring out how life sprang up.

As Jyth so eloquently put, species + time = new species. That's all it is. :D It's also well supported.

~Zoo
Reply #66 from JoeUser Forums Top
Let's say there is a God.

If that's the case, why did he screw things up so badly?
Reply #67 from JoeUser Forums Top
If that's the case, why did he screw things up so badly?
End of quote


He's a dick. :) Well, it's that or the non intervention approach I'm holding on to. I'd rather believe that God lets us live without intervention or direct help rather than his dickishness. However, if I'm wrong on that count then he surely is a dick.

~Zoo
Reply #68 from Stardock Forums Top

Non-intervention. Otherwise we wouldn't have free will.

Reply #69 from JoeUser Forums Top
Non-intervention isn't a good excuse. Sorry. If he is omniscient, then he knew how badly he had fucked things up. Why do it when you know it will end badly? Why not do things right?

Free will or no, still not a good excuse.
Reply #70 from JoeUser Forums Top
Non-intervention isn't a good excuse. Sorry. If he is omniscient, then he knew how badly he had fucked things up. Why do it when you know it will end badly? Why not do things right?
End of quote


And that's why I don't hold on too dearly to this religion stuff. Too many questions, not enough good answers.

:P

I like some of the teachings, though...but I won't invest into the mythos so easily...it doesn't add up as much as it should. And where does that leave us? Inventing crazy rationalizations for it.

~Zoo
Reply #71 from JoeUser Forums Top
If that's the case, why did he screw things up so badly?
End of quote


Would you mind telling us what things you think God screwed up?

I mean He created angels, a wonderful cosmos, a beautiful earth, Adam and Eve perfect in every way and immortal as long as they obeyed Him. It's the angels that didn't and Adam and Eve who screwed things up, not God.
Reply #72 from JoeUser Forums Top
If the angels and Adam and Eve screwed up...guess who created them?

If you know you are going to be disobeyed...if you know the end result will be disobedience, and pain and suffering and misery for your creation...why would you create your people, your beings, to suffer and fight against you? Why not get it right the first time?

If G/god knew this would be the end result (and H/he is supposedly omniscient, so how could he NOT), either he is an idiot or he is incredibly cruel. You pick.
Reply #73 from Stardock Forums Top

If the angels and Adam and Eve screwed up...guess who created them?
End of quote

 

I went down this road with them once or twice, TW.  They will not admit that being First Cause bears any kind of responsibility.  Free Will is the tool they use to absolve God of responsibility while failing to recognize (or refusing to) where that free will came from.

Reply #74 from Stardock Forums Top

God created us for fellowship and communion. If we had no free will, we could not be fellowship to Him.

Reply #75 from JoeUser Forums Top
God created us for fellowship and communion.
End of quote


Basically what you're telling me is he was lonely and all those angels he created didn't do it for him?