On Intelligent Design

I need more sleep, but I can still blog.

from JoeUser Forums

    Intelligent Design is proved by two scientific statements: Einstein's Theory of Relativity, and Occam's Razor. Basically, nothing can come from nothing, without an outside force. Therefore the universe must have been created. Occam's Razor would also prove this theory. "God created the Earth" is much more simple than any alternative. Also, any arguements for the contrary can be labled as free will (We have free will, but God must, to give us true free will, let us decide based on evidence). Also, mind you that we know nothing on the specifics of the Creation. If God willed it, we could have evolved from monocellular organisms, but, importantly, God made the universe, he knows what will happen, and anything that has or will happen has been mandated by him, as are all things happening at this time.

god jesus christ theology evolution intelligent design religion
23,154 views 162 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

The argument that "nothing can come from nothing so God must be responsible" refutes itself because God is not Nothing.  God is something.  That means that by your own statement, God also must have a cause because nothing can come from nothing. 

 

Most people just say "Well, God is infinite - always existed and always will."  It's fine if you believe that, but I can counter "The universe is infinite - always existed and always will" and my argument isn't any better or worse than yours.

 

Occam's Razor is frequently misrepresented as meaning "The simpler the explanation, the more likely it is to be correct."  That isn't what Occam's razor actually says, however.  Occam's razor is "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem", or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity".  If I were to explain why the earth is roundish by inventing some story about how it used to be square but then aliens with a big carving tool came and whittled it into a spheroid, I would be adding things to the theory that do not need to be there.  That is what Occam's Razor urges theorists to prevent, and it's exactly what every religion does.  It adds entities into a situation that don't need to be there for the situation to exist in an attempt to solve the problem.  God is an entity that is added to the problem of determining origin, but he can't be observed, detected, tested, or questioned, so he is an unnecessary entity from a theoretical solution standpoint.  Adding God multiplies entities unnecessarily.

 

Where you're fitting Einstein's Theory into all of this, I cannot see.  Perhaps you'll elaborate.

Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

Also, any arguements for the contrary can be labled as free will (We have free will, but God must, to give us true free will, let us decide based on evidence).
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and anything that has or will happen has been mandated by him, as are all things happening at this time.
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Here, if you referring to the Universe and God's running of it, I agree.

If you are also including man's actions as though we have no free will but all has been mandated by God, I disagree.

Ecclesisaticus 15: 14-18 "God made man from the beginning, and left him in the hands of his own counsel. He added His commandments and precepts. ...He hath set water and fire before thee; stretch foth thy hand to which thou  wilt. Before man is life and death; good and evil; that which he shall choose shall be given him."

God's foreknowledge does not interfere with man's use of his will.

 

 

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Perhaps you'll elaborate.
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When he attempts to, it will probably be as muddled and confusing as most of his posts have been. Love the new blood we've gotten lately, but they're all a bunch of ridiculous hacks, no one who's actually putting any forethought or research into anything they're writing.

There's a reason I stay out of political/religious threads these days, other than to be smarmy and rude. It's more fun than 1)researching and presenting my case, or 2)digitally screaming like a sycophant, the pastime of 93.4% of the political/religious bloggers on this site.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

How long is any book on the theory of evolution? Earth formed x trillion years ago, life started y billion years ago, this happened, that happened, boom!

Also, the Big Bang is pretty much a denial theory. There is no way in a relative world, for the universe to create itself. It needed to be created.

God created the Earth. Takes four words.

There are many things that, as finite beings, we are not meant to know about the infinite.

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

When he attempts to, it will probably be as muddled and confusing as most of his posts have been.
End of quote

 

Quoted for truth with evidence up one response.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
There are many things that, as finite beings, we are not meant to know about the infinite.
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So, in essence, your argument for Intelligent Design is "there's just some thing's we're not supposed to know"?

That's pretty much the most vapid, useless argument I've ever heard, and I've heard some doozies on this site. The proof is that we're not supposed to know about it? That somehow proves to your logic-less mind that Intelligent Design must be the only way?

Hello McFly? Anybody home?
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

When he attempts to, it will probably be as muddled and confusing as most of his posts have been.
End of quote

"I'm pretty tired now, I think I'll go home"

Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

ID and creationism are pains in the neck, and head, and...everywhere else. I honestly don't give a dang where we came from, as long as I'm alive and living.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Occam's Razor would also prove this theory. "God created the Earth" is much more simple than any alternative.
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Oh good God. Seriously? You believe this?

You know this is what led to that whole belief in magic and angry gods causing bad things to happen. Getting sick? Must be angry spirits inside you. Storm came and blew down your house? Must be an angry god! Yeah...those explanations are simple...but they're...uh...y'know- WRONG!

Ock explained Occam's Razor quite nicely. You don't invent stuff to fit into theories, you merely go on the evidence you have.

Intelligent design/creationism is just another story that people like to tell. No different than any other creation myth. It's not fact, it's not objective truth, it's not even a theory...it's merely a story.

~Zoo
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oh good God. Seriously? You believe this?

Intelligent design/creationism is just another story that people like to tell. No different than any other creation myth. It's not fact, it's not objective truth, it's not even a theory...it's merely a story.
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Zoo: Bitch-slapping creationists on JU since 2004. ;)
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Zoo: Bitch-slapping creationists on JU since 2004.
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Heh, heh. :D

~Zoo
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
You can slap that one on your bumper, Zoo. I'm sure it will really get the ladies.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
You can slap that one on your bumper, Zoo. I'm sure it will really get the ladies.
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Awesome.  :CONGRAT: 

~Zoo
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top

ok everybody this is a reminder.

Go to the movies this weekend and watch "Expelled."  I can't go because I have a weekend conference so you can have the first word on it.  As soon as I watch it.....I'm sure I'll be writing about it.

It better be good and worth all they hype I've been hearing. 

 

 

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
It better be good and worth all they hype I've been hearing.
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It's probably not. That's why they call it 'hype'.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

I'm gonna watch it once it comes out on DVD, or earlier. I'm probably not going right as it comes out, I'm far too cheap.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I want to see that too...only this weekend we have yard work on the schedule and lots of it!

I'm far too cheap.
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How about frugal with my mooola?  :) 
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top

I play 90% open-source and freeware games. I'm cheap to an extreme. I don't *buy* software. I'll usually go without. I'm frugal to a fault. Therefore cheap.

Actually, though, I'm gonna see if I can see it the day it comes out, just to support it.

Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top

What's the significance of going to see a movie?  You going to quote the movie as if it's evidence that ID is legitimate?  That'd be par for the course.

 

I'm far too cheap
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How about frugal with my mooola?
End of quote

 

You two directly related somehow, Lula?

Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top

Wheee, cool.  Hey before you go see it, you might want to check this out!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyKCzoikh7k&feature=PlayList&p=F98112EA78C119BB&index=0

 

 

Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top

    I don't need that for evidence, I have many old tapes laying around here somewhere. I need to get more organized. Expelled just is very popular, so I plan to see it. (I saw an ad for it in World magazine)

   Lula and I are only related through Christ who saves us.

Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK3y5Ypg

Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top

Would you mind describing the video next time?

I'll delete comments without the description of a video and just a URL.

Also, use the link feature.

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wheee, cool. Hey before you go see it, you might want to check this out!
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I listened to that. It turned out exactly as I thought it would. It's definitely worth a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK3y5Ypg
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That's good too.

~Zoo
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK3y5Ypg
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Hey before you go see it, you might want to check this out!
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Oh yeah, sounds like a great comedy.  I'll wait for it to come out on DVD, though.

Stubbyfinger, another great link...  Man, I can't believe the depth of Stein's ignorance.  Oh, wait a minute...  I see it all the time on JU.  Maybe I should start believing it.