You do realize that the Bible consists of more than those few verses that you selectively selected, right? Besides, people interpret verses differently.

Yes, I do realize that, and you just made one of my points.

As a former practicing witch, I know all about the Wiccan Rede, thank you very much.

"In their right mind" is the operative phrase there, though.....are you trying to say that homosexuals are in that same category, and are not in THEIR right minds? That's certainly what it sounds like, and I find that even more ridiculous than saying that it's a choice.

So, homosexuals never say that they'd be heterosexual if they could, and they never say that nobody in their right mind would choose such a lifestyle? They might not be the exact words used, but I'm positive that the words used by them are similar.

Yes, I do realize that, and you just made one of my points.

Which point?

As a former practicing witch, I know all about the Wiccan Rede, thank you very much.

The point is not whether you know the Wiccan Rede. The point is that one shouldn't selectively choose verses and treat their interpretations as the only right ones, especially when they do not even subscribe to the belief.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

For far too many people it is more like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you as long as they are like you."

The point is that one shouldn't selectively choose verses and treat their interpretations as the only right ones, especially when they do not even subscribe to the belief.

You assume too much.  I used to teach Sunday School, fyi.  I was very active in a number of churches for  years (different denominations)...  I made an informed decision to leave.

My point was about different people interpreting the same things different ways, but everyone claiming that their interpretation is the 'right' one.

CS guy makes a very good point.

So, homosexuals never say that they'd be heterosexual if they could, and they never say that nobody in their right mind would choose such a lifestyle? They might not be the exact words used, but I'm positive that the words used by them are similar.

Actually, I've never heard one say they would be heterosexual if they could....or imply that they are not in their right mind. I have heard them ask those who claim it is a CHOICE why anyone would ever CHOOSE it, with the way society treats them.....but that's not the same at all.

For far too many people it is more like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you as long as they are like you."

Too true, unfortunately.

You assume too much. I used to teach Sunday School, fyi. I was very active in a number of churches for years (different denominations)... I made an informed decision to leave.

I met somebody online who was a Christian for thirty years, yet the way in which she'd interpret life and the Bible was far different than how many of the Christians I know would do. I'd say that her resume counted for very little. At best, she once understood the perception that her specific sect had.

My point was about different people interpreting the same things different ways, but everyone claiming that their interpretation is the 'right' one.

It appears that you have your own interpretation of the Bible that you fault the Christians for not following though. At least from your comments about those specific verses you selected to the comment about the Biblical ban on shellfish.

Actually, I've never heard one say they would be heterosexual if they could....or imply that they are not in their right mind. I have heard them ask those who claim it is a CHOICE why anyone would ever CHOOSE it, with the way society treats them.....but that's not the same at all.

This is simply semantics. I can't seem to find a choice other than homosexuality besides heterosexuality, except for bisexuality, which I accept is an option they would choose if they could.

Personally, I could care less who people sleep with. Where my neighbor puts his cock or tongue I don't see as being any off my business, really. But if hair splitting is important then I think that to know the difference on a (supposed) issue and act contrary to it is wrong, i.e. if your schizophrenic and refuse to take your medicine or near sighted and refuse to wear glasses or alcoholic and continue to drink. Just because I can say "fuck" in front of a bunch of little old ladies doesn't mean I HAVE to. But then, a person has to make up their own minds on the "rightness" or "wrongness" of homosexuality.
Here's my question: Who would you rather meet in traffic at 70 m.p.h. at two in the morning, the alcoholic that just consumed 18 Budweisers or some dude who just gave his lover head? I'll take the gay guy...

Personally, I could care less who people sleep with. Where my neighbor puts his cock or tongue I don't see as being any off my business, really. But if hair splitting is important then I think that to know the difference on a (supposed) issue and act contrary to it is wrong, i.e. if your schizophrenic and refuse to take your medicine or near sighted and refuse to wear glasses or alcoholic and continue to drink. Just because I can say "fuck" in front of a bunch of little old ladies doesn't mean I HAVE to. But then, a person has to make up their own minds on the "rightness" or "wrongness" of homosexuality.
Here's my question: Who would you rather meet in traffic at 70 m.p.h. at two in the morning, the alcoholic that just consumed 18 Budweisers or some guy who just gave his lover head? I'll take the gay guy...

I can't seem to find a choice other than homosexuality besides heterosexuality, except for bisexuality, which I accept is an option they would choose if they could.

Perhaps you're not trying hard enough. Bestiality, necrophilia, pederasty, autoeroticism, and castration are some choices just off the top of my head. Do you think they should choose any of those instead?

I used to discuss a lot of stuff like this with an old coworker of mine, who happened to be a devout Mormon.

His opinion, based upon what he was taught, was that having homosexual desires and feelings isn't really what they consider "wrong" because they don't really have any control over what comes into their mind, or what turns them on. Acting upon those feelings is what is considered "wrong." He viewed God giving you homosexual feelings as a test. If you failed the test, and acted upon what you felt, you're screwed (in more than one way).

If what he feels is correct, which I don't believe it is, that's a pretty screwed up "test". God would have to be all kinds of cruel to give a test that would require you to live out your entire life miserable just because he chose to give you more homosexual feelings than the average person.

Now, my friend gave most of what he was taught in church more real "consideration" than what I believe the average religious person does, which is why I enjoyed talking with him about this kind of thing. I believe the average Christian just spits back up what was put down their throat without any real thought on their own on what they believe really means. i.e. the earlier posts that were basically, "I just think it's wrong"

Personally, I think it's gross, but I'm lucky enough to have been given the "I think girls are pretty and soft, and guys are meant to be beaten in sports" feelings instead of the "Guys are hot" feelings. If two people of the same sex are happy with each other though, more power to them.

Actually, I've never heard one say they would be heterosexual if they could....or imply that they are not in their right mind. I have heard them ask those who claim it is a CHOICE why anyone would ever CHOOSE it, with the way society treats them.....but that's not the same at all.

Neither have I.  I have heard people say that being gay isn't easy, but that that's how they are.  There's nothing they can do about it. 

If two people of the same sex are happy with each other though, more power to them.

My sentiments exactly.  Happiness can be a rare commodity, as can love...if you find it, you should hang on to it.

"Neither have I. I have heard people say that being gay isn't easy, but that that's how they are. There's nothing they can do about it. "

We all sin, and there is nothing that we can do about it, so, I'm not seeing how it is any different than anything else. How you deal with it is what is in question, not the fact that you are predisposed to sin. Everyone is.

Perhaps you're not trying hard enough. Bestiality, necrophilia, pederasty, autoeroticism, and castration are some choices just off the top of my head. Do you think they should choose any of those instead?

I don't see why they'd prefer any of those options to homosexuality, which is why they must mean they'd choose heterosexuality over homosexuality if they could choose. Of course, when they say "Why would anybody choose homosexuality?" they might mean that they'd still choose it if they had a choice. Call me heterosexist, but I think homosexuals, necrophiles, pedophiles, etc. would choose heterosexuality if they had control over their sexuality.

The condemnation isn't of the act of homosexuality, it is of the legitimization of the act, the denial that it is sin, the refusal to repent. What you do personally is between you and God. What you legitimize and promote is of great concern to the community as a whole. People will always sin, no one should ever condemn you for those sins.

Bakerstreet speaks with great wisdom.

, the bible speaks of homosexuality being a sin, but it also says that eating shellfish is forbidden.

Shellfish definitely bad. Stay away, lest you be damned.

We all sin, and there is nothing that we can do about it, so, I'm not seeing how it is any different than anything else.

Most of the time, when we sin, we CHOOSE it...we're not born liars, thieves, adulterers, etc.---we make the choice to BECOME those things, to commit those sins....being homosexual or heterosexual is not a choice, it's just something that IS.....

Most of the time, when we sin, we CHOOSE it...we're not born liars, thieves, adulterers, etc.---we make the choice to BECOME those things, to commit those sins....being homosexual or heterosexual is not a choice, it's just something that IS.....

Some say that being a homosexual is not a sin, but acting on it is.

Everyone must be left to live his/her life as he/she wishes as long as it doesnt harm the society,right ?

What many Christians are arguing is that it does harm society, particularly if the governmnent allows same-sex couples to be married.

Shellfish definitely bad. Stay away, lest you be damned.

@ Guinness.......

 

"Most of the time, when we sin, we CHOOSE it...we're not born liars, thieves, adulterers, etc.---we make the choice to BECOME those things, to commit those sins..."

Depends on how you look at it. If it were all just "bad choices" then it would be possible to be perfect. It isn't possible, though. We all have inherant weaknesses, and everyone is different. Sure, we can choose to do things we know to be wrong. The issue here isn't that homosexuals make mistakes over and over, it is that they feel that the act itself is not a mistake.

Me, I'm not gonna be overly condemning of the act. That is between God and themselves, and they can believe what they want. The villification of MY belief about homosexuality, though, the implication that any bias that I may have against homosexuality is bigotted or a "problem" troubles me, because it doesn't allow me to believe what I want. A perfect example:

"You know Dharma from my experience the people who have a great issue with homosexuality usually have something in their closet that they are hiding. "

That is such an old, tired tactic. If you don't believe that homosexuality is a "right" act, then you must be a repressed homosexual, which negates your opinion of homosexuality. So his beliefs are normal, but mine are abnormal. Why? Because he says so. How is that any different than what he is railing against?

What many Christians are arguing is that it does harm society, particularly if the governmnent allows same-sex couples to be married.

And I still haven't seen any concrete examples of HOW society would be harmed by treating all people as equals.

If it were all just "bad choices" then it would be possible to be perfect.

No it wouldn't, because we're human, and therefore fallible....what we may think at the time is a good idea, may actually be a choice to sin.

That is such an old, tired tactic. If you don't believe that homosexuality is a "right" act, then you must be a repressed homosexual, which negates your opinion of homosexuality.

However, like you, I do agree that this argument is wrong, and only hurts the discussion.

The world would be a better place if it weren't for all this religious crap. Every guy needs to learn to take it up the ass- that's where the prostate- the male G spot - is.

government superannuation (called Social Security in the US

No Superannuation is not social security.. Superannuation in australia is in your working life a part of your wage goes to a fund so that when you retire you or your spouse if you die have access to money for your retirement. This is different to socail security where money is paid out by the governemtn to people so they can live when they retire. Just a clarification.

that's what social security is, too.