One simple question....

I think we've already discussed this one in Capt.'s article. Or at least tried to. Like I said, I doesn't bother me that people are homosexuals. I just believe that it's wrong. I even have homosexual friends. Of course i don't think what they're doing is right but I'm still going to be their friend.

~carebear~

I had a Christian try to tell me yesterday that Christianity was a way of life - not a religion...

moral of the story - Christians have no idea what they are talking about

Apparently their faith and the rules they live by are circumstantial - i.e. the circumstances have to suit them.

BAM!!!

But if you can accept that people are prone to depression and it's not their fault, or they're allergic to shellfish and it's not their fault....then why is homosexuality considered a choice and 'wrong'?

That's like saying that being shorter than average is 'wrong' or having acne is 'wrong'. 

mark this day on the calendar, Muggy my love....you got an insightful from me for that.

I just believe that it's wrong

why is it wrong? And what brought you to that conclusion?

why is it wrong? And what brought you to that conclusion?

It's just what I believe. It's my opinion. Some people think it's right and some think it's wrong. Nothing I can do about it.

~carebear~

You know Dharma from my experience the people who have a great issue with homosexuality usually have something in their closet that they are hiding.

Ill give you an example.

My ex was married for many years. (to a woman) and his best friend (a woman and also christian) tried to tell him that his feelings for men were wrong etc because of the bible. Well low and behold this friend of his now is a lesbian.

It's just what I believe. It's my opinion

But isnt there something that causes you to believe that? Or are you believing blindly? Carebear. Ill tell you something from great experience. Your beliefs will come around sometime in your life to test you. Some situation in your life will arise where you will question your beliefs and believe me you will need an answer to why you believe it otherwise it will show itself up to be empty.

It might be that they don't believe that homosexuality is something they can't control. Even if it there is a natural tendancy toward homosexuality (which I still find debatable due to the infamous identical twins not being of the same sexuality argument) , that does not mean that they cannot control it.
It's like with people with pedophilic tendancies. I happen to believe that people are born with those tendancies and do not develop them consciously (besides the fact that animals disregard age, I just don't think anybody would want to choose such a disgraceful lifestyle that could exile them from society). However, they still have control over whether or not to act on them.

moral of the story - Christians have no idea what they are talking about Apparently their faith and the rules they live by are circumstantial - i.e. the circumstances have to suit them.

Muggaz, as a blogger I respect I would really appreciate it if you didn't turn this into a Christian bashing thread. Dharma asked an honest question, and it is not in good form (and, frankly, it doesn't become you...you're far too intelligent to resort to such sniping). It's also ignorant of the fact that Christian theologians cannot be pinned down to a single set of beliefs...EVERY belief that is true of any branch of Christianity is contested by another, the only common denominators they have are: does God exist and? Is Christ real?

To answer your question, dharma...there is some debate on whether homosexuality is a choice or not. Interestingly enough, the homosexual community itself uses terminology in much of their literature as to "lifestyle choices" that support that camp. You could respond with graph after graph "proving" it was genetic, and another could respond with graph after graph "proving" it was a choice. In all likelihood, neither side would convince the other.

As for me, I do believe it is a choice. But I also support the right of responsible adults to make choices I don't agree with.

But isnt there something that causes you to believe that? Or are you believing blindly?

The thing that causes me to believe that is my church. I guess I can say that I'm willing to bend that rule a little too in saying that I don't care if my homosexual friends decide to be that way. Maybe I am believing blindly who knows. And I'm sure that one day it will test me, and then who knows, maybe I'll see things differently.

~carebear~

As for me, I do believe it is a choice.

Are you gay Gideon? Have you ever had homosexual tendancies?

I dont expect you to answer these questions, but I think that unless you are or have then noone can really understand. I have known I was gay since the age of 9. I have never found a woman to be sexually attractive ever and it really doesnt interest me in the slightest to have sex with a woman. Do you think that is a choice? No it isnt a choice because I would have loved to have been born heterosexual and enjoy the same rights as heterosexuals, it would have saved me alot of hassles growing up.

But Im not. And it is very weird for me to think anything different.

Are you gay Gideon? Have you ever had homosexual tendancies? I dont expect you to answer these questions, but I think that unless you are or have then noone can really understand. I have known I was gay since the age of 9. I have never found a woman to be sexually attractive ever and it really doesnt interest me in the slightest to have sex with a woman. Do you think that is a choice? No it isnt a choice because I would have loved to have been born heterosexual and enjoy the same rights as heterosexuals, it would have saved me alot of hassles growing up. But Im not. And it is very weird for me to think anything different.

Phoenix, I respect you very much as a blogger and a person. But my beliefs have a very solid basis...I don't go into debates on this subject because, frankly, feelings get hurt, and I truly do not wish to be a party to that. I also understand the hatred and anger that you have likely had thrust upon you by many Christians who believe as I do; I will say frankly, that attitude is not a Christian attitude and that it appalls me that those individuals represent themselves as such.

In short, I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this subject, and kindly ask that you do the same. I was only answering dharma's blog because it was an honest question on her part and deserved an honest answer.

The thing that causes me to believe that is my church.

carebear,

While I know you are sincere as a Christian, I would encourage you not to operate solely on the words of the church. Examine the scriptures and decide for yourself what God has to say on the matter. Speak with leaders of your church and ask them to explain why they teach as they do; it will help you grow in your faith.

And, you are definitely doing the right thing in respecting your friends that happen to be homosexual. Hatred of any person is not consistent with a Christian attitude.

I will say frankly, that attitude is not a Christian attitude and that it appalls me that those individuals represent themselves as such. In short, I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this subject, and kindly ask that you do the same. I was only answering dharma's blog because it was an honest question on her part and deserved an honest answer.

Thanks Gideon. I respect you for that.

It's also ignorant of the fact that Christian theologians cannot be pinned down to a single set of beliefs...EVERY belief that is true of any branch of Christianity is contested by another, the only common denominators they have are: does God exist and? Is Christ real?

Which leads me to beleive - that internally there is so much conflict and confusion, that as a whole, Christians have no idea what part of christianity they conform to individually - i.e. they conform to whatever suits them...

I am not sniping anyone Gid... I was brought up a Catholic, and there are many, many consistencies that can assist my theory... there are factions within the church that support homosexuality, and there are factions that dont = Christianity confusion.

Homosexuality is certainly not a choice though - I sincerely beleive it is a genetic disposition... not an affliction, but a disposition. I have homosexual tendancies - i.e. I have style, and I get along famously with girls, and I love to shop, but if i had the choice to take it up the pooper, I would most certainly turn that down - you have to born with that desire... i can't see that becoming attractive to anyone who isn't inclined that way genetically.

BAM!!!

I am a christian and I believe that people are ussually born one way or the other. I think religion and beliefs are very personal, and that just because one is a Christian, does not mean that they believe homosexuality is a choice.

I do think though that sex outside of marriage is a choice and that it is a sin, which of course opens up a whole new can of worms for gay people since our goverment seems to think we should npot let certian couples marry.

Dharma's point brings me to this comparison.

It is most Christian's believe that you should not damage your body.
So what if a person born with major depression is a cutter?

They were born with the illness, should they be punished since they cut as a result?

but if i had the choice to take it up the pooper, I would most certainly turn that down - you have to born with that desire... i can't see that becoming attractive to anyone who isn't inclined that way genetically.

Im not into that either Muggaz does that mean im not really gay??

Im not into that either Muggaz does that mean im not really gay??

Nah mate, I am pretty sure you are a queeny I was speaking figuratively

BAM!!!

I just realized my analogy sounded much better in my head.

It made sense to me but as I read it aloud, I see it might not make sense to anyone else.

Sorry, Im blonde. at least God loves blondes too.

Oh, also in comparing Homosexuality with depresssion, I didn't mean to say that it was an illness.

You can't change being gay any more than you can change curly hair straight.

You can try brushing out the kinks, making it conform to your idea of its ideal texture, you can try expensive straighting methods. But deep down in your genes your hair is still curly.

So what i am saying is you can't make curly hair or gay people straight!


Ok, Im going to shut up now......

Which leads me to beleive - that internally there is so much conflict and confusion, that as a whole, Christians have no idea what part of christianity they conform to individually - i.e. they conform to whatever suits them...

Actually, what it usually comes down to is whether or not they read the entire bible and take it in context.

Example: There's a popular school of thought in conservative Christian circles that teach that Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed because of homosexuality. They base this on part of the story of the destruction, taken out of context, in which the men of Sodom attempt to rape the angels that visit Lot. There are so many flaws with their argument it's not even funny. And yet, when you attempt to present them with FACTS (Ezekial 16:49 being one reference that says they were destroyed for "pride and excess of food while the poor and needy suffered outside her door"), they attempt to refute you with canned rhetoric from the last time their favorite televangelist hit upon the subject.

In conclusion: There's really not as much confusion as you think among those who STUDY the word, rather than relying on another's interpretation (remember, most pastors are really salesmen with a different product to sell).

In conclusion: There's really not as much confusion as you think among those who STUDY the word, rather than relying on another's interpretation (remember, most pastors are really salesmen with a different product to sell).

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly Gid

It's just a shame that it's a very small percentage of 'Christians' who actually know anything about the word, let alone study it.

BAM!!!

I agree, I actually wrote a blog on the subject entitled "Can You Read and Thump at the Same Time"

I wish theyd keep their bedrooom out of public life, and quit making what they do there a social and political issue.

Is it more about what they do in their bedroom or more about equality when it comes to relationships, superannuation, rights as an individual, discrimination in the workplace... I dont think its about what position you have sexual intercourse in i think its more about society accepting there are differences and being more tolerant and open minded and less discriminatory when it comes to rights as a human being.