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Gay WHAT???

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Gay WHAT???

from JoeUser Forums
What is wrong with this world? Am I just stupid or was the U.S. Constituition written while under the influence of a God fearing belief?

If the constition was written under those principles than why do the people who are also God fearing, have to refrain from using his holy name in public? People honestly wanted to change our 200+ year old pledge just because it includes the word God. And what's even worse is that I have to sit back and listen to people curse while using God's name. Maybe I'm just a crazy christian that is too blind to no the difference, but I don't think that's it.

I have the strangest feeling our forefathers didn't mean that you can't practice religion in the U.S. just that you can't FORCE your religion upon someone. Saying the pledge is not forcing christian ethics upon anyone, it's just asking Americans to have some respect for their country.

Gays can get married, legally, now. All I have to say about this one is, keep them out of court rooms and churches when doing this, because the church is (or at least mine is) against homosexual marriages. Then you have the court rooms which have the american flag right in your face.

If you haven't noticed yet, I'm a christian and I can't stand the fact that we are letting people like this get away with what they are doing. You don't see me going around yelling at people for not praying, so why yell at me FOR praying? I'm not even speaking for crying out loud.

Oh, and then there's schools... This sucks big one's! You don't have to pledge anymore and the principal can't ask you to take time to pray and/or meditate. I remember, in 3rd grade, we would always do morning pledge and then the moment of silence for prayer or meditation. It was harmless. If you don't want to pray, you had time to sit and think. If you wanted to pray and not feel weird you could. Suddenly, out of nowhere we weren't aloud to do those things anymore. Now, to pray you look like a freak and everyone thinks your a loser that doesn't deserve to have friends.

So, what am I? Am I an idiot for even thinking that God is good? Maybe that's why we're having so much trouble in this world now. People won't accept that God isn't a word to bind you into one religion, but a word to symbolize the greatness of our country... if you won't accept it as a holy being. Or perhaps I'm a psychotic homophobe who can't even function in the same world as a homosexual or bisexual (no real dif.).

Capt. over and out!
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Reply #126 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gideon~ I think he just meant his friends church.

Lord Shitzu~ It seemed to me that you were picking on me. I didn't think you were picking on him. Because he said the thing about smaking christians in the face before i said it.

~carebear~
Reply #127 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now, to pray you look like a freak and everyone thinks your a loser that doesn't deserve to have friends.


Why? I pray all the time, where ever I am, and no one even knows about it. You're not supposed to make a big display of it, it's just supposed to be between you and God....just sit at your desk, close your eyes and pray.....

Actually, the forefathers were deitists. Going along with "add-ins" in American culture and mentality, the "Under G-d" saying only appeared in different facets, including on money during the government's efforts to polarize the "G-dless Russian Commies" from everyday Americans, and procaim values that were not stated in the Constitution.


Thanks for saving me from having to type pretty much the same thing. While I am a Christian, and am very strong in my faith, I also believe that it goes against the intention of our Founding Fathers to suggest that this country was founded as "a Christian nation"...we were founded to provide religious freedom, to allow EVERYONE to have a place to practice their religion, whatever it is, to worship their own Higher Power, of whatever name....

What if the Muslims became a more vocal, more activist group in our country, and changed every mention of God to Allah? Would those who are out there insisting that God stay part of the government still be out there supporting that Allah remain as well? Somehow, I have my doubts.....and what if it were the Wiccans who were the vocal majority? How would you feel about pledging allegiance to one nation, under Gods and Goddesses?


And no, you don't get offended by the words, you just try to convert the speaker of the words instead.


Heck, even those of us who are Christian, but believe in keeping religion out of government, are subjected on occasion to the "conversion" attempts...because we obviously aren't Christian ENOUGH.

Yes, but.....you can look at the word "God" as a more universal term.....it can be nondescript.....at least its not specific like "In Zeus We Trust".


Not with a capital G....that, in the minds of most, refers specifically to the Judeo-Christian deity....otherwise the pledge could say "under my god", and then it MIGHT be seen as a more universal term

BTW, do they still make people swear on the Bible in court?......


Not in any courts I've been in recently....and I just gave testimony in a case in June.....

I think that there should still be time to pray in classrooms at schools. I think that the last time I remember praying in a classroom was in the 5th grade.


There IS still time to pray in school, any time you want...no one can stop you. Ask my children...they pray all the time...before lunch, before and after field trips, before and after sports activities, before tests, etc. A silent prayer can be said any time, any where.

As for the gay and lesbian marriges......it's just totally wrong.


And just because YOU believe that way, everyone in the country should have to live by YOUR belief? If you don't believe it's right, then don't be in a lesbian marriage....but don't try to stop others from marrying. What if the majority was opposed to heterosexual marriage....would you think it was right for them to pursue an amendment to make that illegal?

If you want a kind of relationship such as that then do it somewhere as long as it is not in a church.


And who ever said that a marriage HAD to take place in a church? If a specific church or denomination wants to ban same sex marriage, more power to them....but that doesn't mean it needs to be in the Constitution!!

What if you wanted to pray for something bad that has happened and it just so happened to be a tuesday at school?


Then you say a SILENT prayer, and go on with your day. No problem!!

No, the commandments are not bad at all if you are a Christian (which I am, of the widely unpopular Catholic demoniation ). That said, I don't believe that anything that is funded with public money (schools, courts...) should contain the doctrines of any religion.


Amen....

it's just the way my church believes. I'm not going to turn against what my church is teaching.


Whatever happened to making a decision for yourself?

Honestly, its like people really arent listening to what Jesus had to say. Love one another (yes that means everyone) as I loved you.


SOME of us are still listening....it just seems we're not being heard, either.....

And I do respect that they choose to be that way, but I still see that it's wrong.


And can you tell me, since it's a CHOICE, when exactly you said to yourself "Gosh, I think I'm going to be a heterosexual and only be attracted to members of the opposite sex." After all, if homosexuals make the choice, then heterosexuals would have to do the same......

Ok, so, now it's all about how belief in God is wrong, or believing in the teaching of you church is wrong?


I haven't seen anyone say anything like that yet....can you quote it for me?

Gay marriage is wrong because God didn't establish it as being a holy unity.


And that should rule the lives of those who don't believe in God WHY, exactly?

You're probably going to tell me it's alright for a 12 year old and a 40 year old to get married next, and I'm not going to tolerate this stupid thinking of people anymore


No, we're talking about two consenting ADULTS, with nothing that should legally keep them from marrying. And since no one brought up a situation involving a 12 yr old and a 40 yr old except YOU, then I guess we know where the stupid thinking is coming from.....

Have you ever seen a homosexual become a born again christian? They aren't gay or lesbian any more after that because they chose not to be.


I've seen several who have been Christians most of their lives....and are in committed same sex relationships that have lasted longer than many heterosexual marriages.

"No, they are still gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, or whatever. They are just no longer practicing it."So, what you're saying is that if a satan worshiper becomes born again christian he/she is still a satan worshiper, just not practicing it anymore?


Not the same at all....a homosexual being a Christian no more stops being a homosexual than a blue eyed person wearing green contacts stops being a blue eyed person. You CAN change your religion...you CAN'T change your genetic makeup.

So, having hormones is a sin? Can I get an A-men?Capt. over and out!(you guys are killing me)


Are you really having that much of a reading comprehension problem, or are you just trying to fam the flames here?

You can't tell me that you don't look at them or say something because they are with someone of the same gender.


Sure I can....my stepson has been with his partner for longer than his father and I have been married...and we would never dream of saying anything negative to or about them, any more than they would say anything negative to or about us.
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Reply #128 from JoeUser Forums Top
otherwise the pledge could say "under my god", and then it MIGHT be seen as a more universal term

It is NOT universal because it excludes those of us that worship no deity!
Reply #129 from JoeUser Forums Top
It is NOT universal because it excludes those of us that worship no deity!


Exactly, still, great post Poetmom. Addresses all of the issues a lot of us have had with the Christian representation in this discussion. It's very refreshing to see someone who can appreciate the positive aspects of her religion without being blindly indoctrinated to one church or priest, and can see and discuss the opinions of others without just dismissing them because she doesn't agree.
Reply #130 from JoeUser Forums Top
It is NOT universal because it excludes those of us that worship no deity!


Good point....but I did say MIGHT....
Reply #131 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's very refreshing to see someone who can appreciate the positive aspects of her religion without being blindly indoctrinated to one church or priest, and can see and discuss the opinions of others without just dismissing them because she doesn't agree.


Thanks Lord Shitzu...I do my best!
Reply #132 from JoeUser Forums Top
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Reply #133 from JoeUser Forums Top
By the way Poetmom99, you aren't included in my statements where I talk about "most Christians". You might not care of course, but you would fall into the catagory of people that I really enjoying finding. Where you can actually be open and understand what the 'other side' is talking and not just answer every question with "...well, my pastor told me." I mentioned earlier a friend of mine who was Mormon; he was similiarly open to discussions.
Reply #134 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's very refreshing to see someone who can appreciate the positive aspects of her religion without being blindly indoctrinated to one church or priest, and can see and discuss the opinions of others without just dismissing them because she doesn't agree.

I agree. With the one exception that I pointed out I thought your comment was wondrous.
Reply #135 from JoeUser Forums Top
I mentioned earlier a friend of mine who was Mormon; he was similiarly open to discussions.


I've found that most Mormons are that way...I've spent hours in my living room talking with the missionaries who come knocking on my door.

I agree. With the one exception that I pointed out I thought your comment was wondrous.


Thanks CS....means a lot coming from you!

Reply #136 from JoeUser Forums Top
Lord Shitzu said:
citahellion's impressive, well thought out explanation of why we believe that gay people who have become born again are supressing their TRUE NATURE, including a great metaphor in the idea of wearing women's clothing does not make you a woman. It also explains not just WHY we think this way, but also what exactly it IS that we think.


Thanks, I'm glad someone appreciated it.
Reply #137 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've found that most Mormons are that way...I've spent hours in my living room talking with the missionaries who come knocking on my door.

My experience has been different. I used to date a Mormon girl, and I've had many friends that were Mormon. My best friend's whole family is Mormon, and I know all of them very well, although my friend left the church in high school. His and my experience has been that Mormons love to sit and chat about your beliefs, and they put on a face of listening, but ultimately they have a very condescending view of anything outside their church's dogma. They just keep it to themselves better than most people.
Reply #138 from JoeUser Forums Top
They just keep it to themselves better than most people


Which is really fine though... since I'm not really trying to talk them out of their beliefs. I just enjoy discussing all of the possibilities.
Reply #139 from JoeUser Forums Top
His and my experience has been that Mormons love to sit and chat about your beliefs, and they put on a face of listening, but ultimately they have a very condescending view of anything outside their church's dogma. They just keep it to themselves better than most people.


But keeping their feelings of condescion to themselves is still putting them a step ahead of some other people, IMO. As long as they are willing to talk and discuss, there is always the possibility of one of us hearing something that the other says, KWIM? We don't have to try to change each other's minds....we should just be willing to hear and try to understand why others feel the way they do.
Reply #140 from JoeUser Forums Top
But keeping their feelings of condescion to themselves is still putting them a step ahead of some other people, IMO. As long as they are willing to talk and discuss, there is always the possibility of one of us hearing something that the other says, KWIM? We don't have to try to change each other's minds....we should just be willing to hear and try to understand why others feel the way they do.

Thats true, but I felt rather betrayed when I found out that my words were essentially discarded as soon as I said them. I thought I was participating in an exchange of ideas, but what it really was was a, "That's nice, dear. Now here is the way things really are." These people were polite and willing to let me speak, but they really had no interest in what I had to say, and no interest in truly listening to me.

That girl I dated really punched me in the eye when she told me that when I call her on the phone (as I did a lot since at the time I was travelling more often than not for work) I had a responsibility to be open and share all of my feelings and thoughts while she did not. Her reason? Well, I initiated the conversation. I started to realize that this one-sided aspect infected all of our conversations. My friend explained to me that this is a common trait among Mormons (he was always explaining what I saw as strange behavior from this girl). He may have been wrong, but my experience has supported his assertion.

Every Mormon I have known has been a really great person, but I refuse to enter into any more of those unbalanced exchanges again.
Reply #141 from JoeUser Forums Top
That girl I dated really punched me in the eye when she told me that when I call her on the phone (as I did a lot since at the time I was travelling more often than not for work) I had a responsibility to be open and share all of my feelings and thoughts while she did not. Her reason? Well, I initiated the conversation.


Wow...I'm still trying to wrap my mind around THAT reasoning....without much luck, so far.
Reply #142 from JoeUser Forums Top
That's taking personal accountability a little too far into personal accounting.
Reply #143 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wow, I'm surprised by the number of times I wanted to lash out at someone while reading these latest replies. I'm sorry if this sounds like a stereotypical christian response, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a huge chance that the "gay Christians" are actually Christians. As a christian, any of you who are, you should know that accepting Jesus into your heart isn't all you do. It's not a free gift, even though everyone likes to think it is. You have to sacrifice many things. Some of those things could be your language, attitude, and of course your personal relationships. Your friends could turn you from Jesus' way or if they are more than friends, I'm not exactly sure but I think God wants us to be STRAIGHT. A gay couple, married, who says they're christians haven't learned that you have to give up stuff such as relationships that he says aren't good in his eyes.

I'm ashamed in some of the replies. You guys actually make it seem like it's bad to change for the better. And I'm still talking to the christians out there.

From the looks of things my one-liner is still an issue. I'm pretty sure this is no longer a one-liner so please just forgive me for what I've done.

My computer won't let me quote so I'm just gonna pray that you know who/what I'm refering to.

I keep reading about people saying that you can pray anytime you want and that you don't have to make a big scene about it. Trust me, everything you do is seen in high school. You do the typical praying position and someone will see and comment about it. The moment of silence is time for everyone to get some acceptable prayer in or just plain ol' meditation. Of course Daniel didn't care what people said about his prayer but he was stronger than I and I know that I would have struggled severely to keep on praying like he did.

The moment of silence, to me, truly was JUST a MOMENT of SILENCE. I sure do hope you caught those key words in there because if you didn't then I guess I'm not the only one having trouble analyzing what's been written.

Capt. over and out!
Reply #144 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hmm...you know I never heard of half of these Christian stereotypes...hehe....I guess I'm not a very good Christian because I don't really think I fit these.....apparently I'm SUPPOSED to be a stupid, stubborn, thoughtless follower.....I've really got to find that section in the Christian handbook....Oh well....I'll get around to it......

~Zoo
Reply #145 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oh no, zoo. You can't try and be funny. What are you thinking?

Capt. over and out!
Reply #146 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oh, sorry Capt.....I guess I had a crazy, humorous moment........I hope those don't come around often....

~Zoo
Reply #147 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well Lord Shitzu. That is the way that we all feel. If anyone makes a joke about something they don't want to get them mad. They want to try to get it so people aren't mad. Yeah i know some things should be taken serious but then again when one of us may make a serious comment. You might not take it serious. You know that all you think is that we don't know what we are talking about but you know what we do. We know what we are trying to say you might not understand but we do. We feel free to say what we want and say how we feel. I am not trying to get you mad so i apologize if you get mad cause i'm not trying to get anyone mad. We know what we are saying and the way we feel. Also who cares if carebear writes the same thing as capt. she feels the same way and no i know her too well she doesn't just want points. She actually does care about what everyone says and she does care and know what she is putting down. Both capt. and carebear know what they are saying they are very intelligent and bright and they are two of the nicest people you would ever meet. They are always trying to cheer you up and things if you are mad. That is why they put the small jokes everyonce in awhile. I care for both of them and i would give my life for them if i had to i would let them live for me to die. I love both of them as my friends. So please leave them alone they are stating the way they feel. So let them be themselves and you will understand them after time and you will get to like them as much as i do. Just trust me and this is a serious response so don't bash it or anything plz.

~blondelife~
Reply #148 from JoeUser Forums Top
I keep reading about people saying that you can pray anytime you want and that you don't have to make a big scene about it. Trust me, everything you do is seen in high school. You do the typical praying position and someone will see and comment about it. The moment of silence is time for everyone to get some acceptable prayer in or just plain ol' meditation. Of course Daniel didn't care what people said about his prayer but he was stronger than I and I know that I would have struggled severely to keep on praying like he did.


They'll "COMMENT" about it?!?!?!?!? Pardon me for this, but: WAAAAAHH! It boggles the mind that you consider the opinions of some of your peers to be a persecution equal to being fed to lions, being lit up at torches for the emperor's garden parties, or being sent to concentration camps.

Capt, you're a good guy, with a good head on your shoulders, but, as the old saying goes, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. There is no assurance in scripture that the way would be easy; Paul spent a good deal of time in prison, and of the disciples, only John was allowed to live to an old age (on Patmos).
Reply #149 from JoeUser Forums Top

Trust me, everything you do is seen in high school. You do the typical praying position and someone will see and comment about it.


Try standing firm on your faith.  Be proud of it.  You did a fine job of standing your ground here - do it there.