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Gay WHAT???

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Gay WHAT???

from JoeUser Forums
What is wrong with this world? Am I just stupid or was the U.S. Constituition written while under the influence of a God fearing belief?

If the constition was written under those principles than why do the people who are also God fearing, have to refrain from using his holy name in public? People honestly wanted to change our 200+ year old pledge just because it includes the word God. And what's even worse is that I have to sit back and listen to people curse while using God's name. Maybe I'm just a crazy christian that is too blind to no the difference, but I don't think that's it.

I have the strangest feeling our forefathers didn't mean that you can't practice religion in the U.S. just that you can't FORCE your religion upon someone. Saying the pledge is not forcing christian ethics upon anyone, it's just asking Americans to have some respect for their country.

Gays can get married, legally, now. All I have to say about this one is, keep them out of court rooms and churches when doing this, because the church is (or at least mine is) against homosexual marriages. Then you have the court rooms which have the american flag right in your face.

If you haven't noticed yet, I'm a christian and I can't stand the fact that we are letting people like this get away with what they are doing. You don't see me going around yelling at people for not praying, so why yell at me FOR praying? I'm not even speaking for crying out loud.

Oh, and then there's schools... This sucks big one's! You don't have to pledge anymore and the principal can't ask you to take time to pray and/or meditate. I remember, in 3rd grade, we would always do morning pledge and then the moment of silence for prayer or meditation. It was harmless. If you don't want to pray, you had time to sit and think. If you wanted to pray and not feel weird you could. Suddenly, out of nowhere we weren't aloud to do those things anymore. Now, to pray you look like a freak and everyone thinks your a loser that doesn't deserve to have friends.

So, what am I? Am I an idiot for even thinking that God is good? Maybe that's why we're having so much trouble in this world now. People won't accept that God isn't a word to bind you into one religion, but a word to symbolize the greatness of our country... if you won't accept it as a holy being. Or perhaps I'm a psychotic homophobe who can't even function in the same world as a homosexual or bisexual (no real dif.).

Capt. over and out!
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Reply #101 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wow, that was awesome! Can I shake your hand? I'm going to go ahead and admit that you made me look stupid as heck. Now, I'm gonna have to go and look at this in another light. I never thought about the idea of the U.S. not deserving those words. That was truly enlightening. Thank you.

The only thing I'm gonna have to disagree with is what you said about the moment of silence. To be totally honest, I'm not mad because it takes away a chance to pray, I'm mad because I liked to sit and relax before the day started. Look around you and tell me how many people can say that they get to take time and relax before going off to work. Not a lot of people do and I think that this moment of silence would help to increase the productivity of students all over the world.

Capt. over and out!
Reply #102 from JoeUser Forums Top

As a christian, I personally wish that the phrase "Under God" was taken out of the pledge of allegience, and that "In God we trust" would be taken off of our money. This nation is clearly not under God, and I resent the fact that it is being represented as so. Many people in our nation do not trust in God, making the statement "In God WE Trust" a falsehood. On the point of having a moment of silence, what is the point of that? if you feel like praying, do it whenever you feel like. or do it at home. its not as if that is the only place or time that it can be done.


Finally!  A voice of reason, and a christian one at that!


I wholeheartedly agree.

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #103 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't know but all i can say is stick to your opionion cause nobody is going to change minds. So it doesn't matter. Everyone is differant and no one has the same mind. Also brandon your welcome for saying that.lol. you to ashley.

~blondelife~
Reply #104 from JoeUser Forums Top
First, the pledge is not 200 years old. Your history teacher gets an "F", capt.

Second, the words "under God" were not added until the 1950's.

Man, I'm glad we don't depend on public schools to teach our kids...
Reply #105 from JoeUser Forums Top
This should pretty easily illustrate to all of you that are arguing with, or trying to understand how your average Christian thinks that you can't really argue with them. They believe one of a few things: Whatever their master (Pastor, preacher, etc...) tells them they should believe, however they choose interpret the Bible (one of the easiest collection of stories to interpret 800 different ways, or whatever their group of brain-dead "good Christian" friends believe. Any use of logic or reasoning is completely wasted on them.


You might want to rethink your little judgement on this one....I'm a Christian....I've only been inside a Church twice....I think....and I haven't gotten passed the first chapter in the Bible.....I'm lazy and I believe things the way I see them....so, ease up on the generalizations there....

~Zoo
Reply #106 from JoeUser Forums Top
i gotcha now. you do understand the difference between someone pretending to be attracted to the same sex and someone who has always only been attracted to the same sex or who finds both sexes equally attractive?


Yes i do.

As shades said, this is your OPINION. It may be based on what your pastor told you, or on other sources of information, but unless you have documented evidence to back it up, we will continue to consider it your opinion.


Well if it's mine and Capt.'s OPINION to think that people are not born gay. Then it makes it your OPINION that you think people are born gay, right?

nmrhth~ omg. thank you so much. you are the only one really making sense on here!!!

~carebear~
Reply #107 from JoeUser Forums Top
Christianity is a proselytising religion like Islam. The reason Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world is that it has the courage of its convictions, knows how and where to best express them to gain converts, and is a real presence in the life of its adherents. Conversely Christianity, having lost its balls long ago, is in chronic decline - at least in terms of numbers of church-going believers.

There was a time when the church had clear and simple measures for those who resented having the Gospels 'shoved in their face' all day. They were taken to the nearest torture chamber, shown the implements of torture, and told that if they didn't recant their heresy then Holy Mother Church would seriously fuck em up. And then burn them alive.

Where's the Inquisition when you need it, eh?
Come back Torquemada, all is forgiven!!
Reply #108 from JoeUser Forums Top


Okay, so it's time to do some quoting now:

Though you may not go along with the facts, you are NOT born gay


I'll not take the time to point out how silly of a statement this is. A few other people have already done a good job of that.

I'm sorry I put you into your "grumpy mode" but I don't see how saying that Christians are stupid is going to win your arguments. My mom, for example, is the 2nd highest paid woman for the business she works at. She also has her own company that she runs on the side. She's a website designer, and a dang good one too. She's a christian, so of course what I just told you is false because she must be too stupid to do what she does.

Dude, the next time you think you're going to be cool by saying that my "family" is stupid, maybe you should think twice. You just look like your some idiot who can't find people to listen to him without lashing out!


To those of you who keep referring to Christians as persons who blindly follow what they are told and have no intelligence, I resent that.


In my earlier post, I never referred to anyone as being stupid or having no intelligence. If you really wanted one word to use to illustrate how I described most, and I do say most not all, Christians, bigot would be a better choice:

A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.


Giving me a resume of your mothers accomplishments doesn’t really disprove your bigotry.

You don’t necessarily have to view being a bigot as a bad thing though. It just means that any logic or reason others use to try and make you understand their points is wasted. You believe what you believe because of one or a few of my earlier mentioned reasons.

One solution to the gay marriage situation would be this. Remove the title of marriage from federal and state law. Instead, replace it with the term civil union, or something else. allow both homosexual and heterosexual couples to form civil unions. classify marriages performed within churches as civil unions. that way, gays will have a way of joining together in love, along with receiving the tax benefits that now only come from marriage. also, Christians and others opposed to gay marriage because it violates the sanctity would be able to preserve this sanctity, without disadvantaging the gay community.


Really good idea! Although, you could almost do that now if you cared a little less about the “title” that your union is given. I don’t believe gay couples getting married are going to want to go to YOUR church to get hitched. So, you could just recognize the difference between be married in a church which you consider valid, and married by a Justice of the Peace which wouldn’t hold the same high status.
Reply #109 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well if it's mine and Capt.'s OPINION to think that people are not born gay. Then it makes it your OPINION that you think people are born gay, right?


Yes, that is my opinion.
But please don't bother trying to claim that any opinion is just as good as any other. An opinion is only as good as the thought and the knowledge that went into forming it.
Reply #110 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well if it's mine and Capt.'s OPINION to think that people are not born gay. Then it makes it your OPINION that you think people are born gay, right?


Yes, as citahellion says, it's an opinoin. However, unlike Capt, we never stated that it was FACT.

Though you may not go along with the facts, you are NOT born gay
Reply #111 from JoeUser Forums Top
Actually, I need to re-state my opinion. I do not believe that sexual orientation is determined at the time of birth by your genetic structure. So in that regard, Captain and Carebear, I agree with you.
Where I differ from you is in your apparent belief (and I say "apparent" because I'm not going to go back and look for exact quotes) that being gay, or giving up gayness, is a conscious choice.
There are many genetic factors that may predispose one toward becoming gay when proper environmental conditions are met. My understanding and belief is that sexual orientation is determined by a combination of one's predisposition and one's early childhood environment. What genetic or environmental factors specifically influence sexual orientation, I do not know. However, by the time a child is becoming sexually aware, their preferences have long since been determined.
Reply #112 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, as citahellion says, it's an opinoin. However, unlike Capt, we never stated that it was FACT


Yes, I know that you never said it was a fact. I'm just trying to get everything straight here so I don't confuse myself.

Actually, I need to re-state my opinion. I do not believe that sexual orientation is determined at the time of birth by your genetic structure. So in that regard, Captain and Carebear, I agree with you.


Wow, someone is actually agreeing with us.

~carebear~
Reply #113 from JoeUser Forums Top
I mean sure some of the people might not believe in the same God, but still.


There is the essence of why atheists like me have a distaste for Christians, and why we "dig their feet in" like someone said and protest religion being inserted into secular issues.

What you're basically saying is:
"Sure some people don't believe in the same god, or any god, but... but still... come on... who cares, right?"

You say that "God" could mean any god, be it Zeus or Buddha, but then again anyone who believed in Zeus would call him Zeus, not God, and what of all the other gods such a person believed in? And the Buddha's not "God" either, but an enlightened being. Of course I'm sure you'd say it's all the same. It's all the same to you because it's not your beliefs being trivialized or marginalized, how would you feel if I said in relation to your beliefs: "Yeah, just some god and his Jesus kid, who's god too or something, or maybe not, it depends on who you ask, but who cares anyway, point is it's a god."

And then there are atheists like me, who just get so annoyed when we see this stuff surrounding us and being forced in our faces when we think it's all bullshit anyway. You say even if I don't believe in God I should respect your right to be proud of your belief. Well I have a right to be proud of my non-belief, because I happen to believe myself a free thinker, and that makes me proud. But if you want to express support for your country, I don't force you to say: "..one nation, under no gods whatsoever, because gods are stupid, and those who believe in them are sheep, indivisible..."

That would be rude, and it's just as rude to have to call this one nation under god, as though it were a given that there's a god.
Reply #114 from JoeUser Forums Top
So, what you just said is, someone doesn't understand Christianity so they generalize, and therefore it's bad? No, I think you have issues to sort out before trying to say I'm being rude like that. I'll admit that I am being rude, but I'm trying to leave other religions out of the conversation as much as possible because I'm not "educated" enough in them. Pardon me for not studying something I don't believe in. And I don't care if you generalize about something you don't know about, as long as you're willing to admit that you don't know what you're talking about.

Humility is a lesson that needs to be taught more often. None of you will accept when you can't even prove your point anymore. I admitted it a while ago, yet you continue to try and make me look bad just because I believe in something you don't. Give it up. You all seem "smart". Why don't we just agree to disagree, unless you want to keep arguing with one of the most stuborn teens on JU. I'd be glad to throw mud as long as you are... Feel free.

Capt. over and out!
Reply #115 from JoeUser Forums Top
You're right it's pointless arguing with your type of people.

All the best thought out and truly excellent arguments against your position that others have made you dismiss with a one-liner and a smily.

Here's an example:

citahellion's impressive, well thought out explanation of why we believe that gay people who have become born again are supressing their TRUE NATURE, including a great metaphor in the idea of wearing women's clothing does not make you a woman. It also explains not just WHY we think this way, but also what exactly it IS that we think.


and your response:

So, having hormones is a sin? Can I get an A-men?

Capt. over and out!

(you guys are killing me)


Way to entirely ignore what he said and make a joke of a serious argument.

It pains me to see other peoples' well thought out arguments dismissed like that. At least most of those opposing your view take the time to fully read and fully respond to your thoughts.
Reply #116 from JoeUser Forums Top
Pardon me for not studying something I don't believe in.


Shew!! You should count yourself lucky then that you happened to have been born here and were exposed to the right religion right off the bat! You would have really been screwed, and damned to hell I guess, if you would have been born somewhere else in the world and wouldn't have had a chance to find to find the truth!

Lucky guy!
Reply #117 from JoeUser Forums Top
You're right it's pointless arguing with your type of people.


Well if it's pointless then why are you doing it too? Or are you?

Way to entirely ignore what he said and make a joke of a serious argument


So are you saying that he doesn't have the right to make a joke now?? Are we going to make a law of that, that will say no joking in a serious arguement? It is his article afterall.

It pains me to see other peoples' well thought out arguments dismissed like that. At least most of those opposing your view take the time to fully read and fully respond to your thoughts.


Oh, and by the way, he's not the only one who's been joking aroundin here either. Maybe you just didn't see it or something.

~carebear~
Reply #118 from JoeUser Forums Top
"citahellion's impressive, well thought out explanation of why we believe that gay people who have become born again are supressing their TRUE NATURE, including a great metaphor in the idea of wearing women's clothing does not make you a woman. It also explains not just WHY we think this way, but also what exactly it IS that we think."

Is that a quote? I'm sorry if I just don't read the replies like a gentleman would but I don't remember this being said... If not I'm sorry, I just thought that the yellow box meant you quoted something.

Man, I'm getting tired of this. All you guys do is smack the Christians in the face. Dude (or dudette) it's not cool. Have I once said, you aethiests suck and should come crying to me because you're worthless? I don't think so, and I'd really apreciate it if you'd stop trying to make it look like I did. The only think I've said is that gays shouldn't marry in Churches or courtrooms. Sure, courtrooms might have been a bit much but I never said gays are evil or anything like that. I just know that a "Christian" church wouldn't allow it and the problem is that I've seen churches allow it.

Have you heard about the Lutherans? They're thinking of accepting gay marriages. One of my friends told me about this. Guess what else? He's against it.

Just because christians typically think a certain way, we don't all. All I'm trying to say here is that I'm against gay marriage and that my church is too.

Again, can we get back to the moment of silence topic? Come on guys, I know talking about how evil I am is more fun but let's stop being cocky for just a minute. I promise it won't hurt you.

I think we all need a moment of silence now. You seem to be getting really good at bashing me. I think you're getting too personal now. I've been generalizing my coments. Maybe you guys should stop picking me out to bash when we all know there's no need for it.

Just in case this starts to get out of hand, how about this... We just say I win because I'm too inferior (due to my fear of God) to listen to reasoning. My tiny brain can't compete with yours.

Capt. over and out!
Reply #119 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well this is a little too much to put in a yellow box so I'm not going to bother.....

Yeah I'm getting tired too. Why do you always have to smack us Christians in the face. Why not yourslef for a change? You ever stop to think that you could be wrong too? You're making us Christians look like idiots or something. I know none of us have tried to bash you or anything. Maybe it's time we should?? Or maybe not, because that's just wrong. And yes my church is also against gay marriage and so am I, but I think we already know that one. And yes, could we stop trying to or acting cocky? And Capt. you're not the only on getting bashed. And yeah they are getting a wee bit too personal.

~carebear~
Reply #120 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now, to take actual issue with your point, you have to realize that there is a difference between changing your behavior and changing your being.
If today I declare that I like cerulean best, and tomorrow I decide I like obsidian best, am I really just a closet cerulean lover who is suppressing my instincts? No, I have changed my mind. I have found a new reason to prefer something else over my previous choice.
On the other hand, if today I dress like a man and tomorrow I dress like a woman, do I become a woman? I hope not. (Perhaps I shouldn't take the risk, though.)

A lot of religion is about making a decision to behaviorally suppress elements of your being. A person who is violent by nature but who is a Christian is called upon to constantly suppress his violent instincts and instead to turn the other cheek. A person who is innately greedy and envious is called upon to renounce those tendencies and try to focus on generosity and gratitude. Hormone-drenched teens are called upon to hold their gonads in check until they find someone they're willing to marry.
Now when you joined the church, did you get castrated? If you did, then you are truly no longer a hormone-drenched teen and your sinful desires in that regard have indeed been eradicated. If not, you are just like the homosexual Christian; having desires, but pledged not to act upon them.


There's the quote, I was paraphrasing the contents for you since you were too lazy to read it the first time, I figured you would be the second time too.

My apologies.

And carebear, I think it's hilarious how all you do is repeat what CaptCornbread says to "emphasize his point." Stellar, way to think for yourself.
Reply #121 from JoeUser Forums Top
You can make jokes all you want, but when someone writes two detailed paragraphs to explain their position to you, and you dismiss it with a one-line joke, that's just plain rude.

I don't like being rude and maliscious, I really don't, but if you plan on being rude, I have no intention of being civil myself, although that is obviously clear now.
Reply #122 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dude, lay off already. We got it. We're not worthy to talk to you. Dude, I've read every reply on here so far, don't start with me.

Why the heck, by the way, did you have to pick on Carebear for agreeing with me. You know we can't all disagree about everything, there's really not that many sides to a story. You pretty much have 3 choices, one side, the other, or undecided. I'm on one side with the people that agree with me, you're on the other side with the people that agree with you, and my dad's undecided like the people like him who can't decide. Don't mess with someone for chosing to agree with me just because you don't. I thought you were better than that. Or are you just too lazy to think about how it would come across?

I'm tired of you bashing me and (more importantly) my friends who happen to share a lot of beliefs. Seriously dude, lay off. I don't want kicked off of here for getting too offense to any, and I'd pray you'd think about that too.

Capt. over and out!

P.S.~ Do you need a nap? I think you're in the "grumpy mode" now.
Reply #123 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok why are you picking on me?? Ok I agree with him. So what do you want me to put. One of thoes one-liners or something. The things I put are not exactly the same as Capt. is saying. I'm trying to emphasize MY POINT of view. I have my beliefs too ya know. I guess we're not worthy to talk to you if you don't like being rude or w/e. But it doesn't make sense to me that you say you don't like it when people are rude. Well if you don't like it so much then why are you being rude? Ok, maybe you think you're not, but it sure seems like it.

~carebear~
P.S.~ I think I might go off into my little corner now, thank you very much.
Reply #124 from JoeUser Forums Top
I wasn't picking on him for AGREEING with you, but for parroting you word-for-word:

You said:

All you guys do is smack the Christians in the face.


And then all of a sudden he says:

Why do you always have to smack us Christians in the face.


But yes, I do realize I'm being rude, and frankly I got carried away. And I do apologize. But you hit on my biggest pet peeve in the world when it comes to message boards, blogs, forums, whatever:

When I, or someone else for that matter, takes the time to write a thought-out, uninsulting, and insightful message. Puts the effort to make it good writing and really try to be a clear explanation of their viewpoint, and they don't even get an intelligent response, not even a "Well that's an interesting point, though I disagree with you" and instead, the response is an insult, or a joke, or something completely unrelated. It's just the most annoying thing in the world to me, a grievous lack of courtesy before anyone even gets mean or insulting, as I have gotten in this latest exchange.

Again, I apologize for picking on either of you, but disagreeing with you, and seeing you do something that always enrages me, made me snap more than I should have. Once again, I apologize.
Reply #125 from JoeUser Forums Top
Have you heard about the Lutherans? They're thinking of accepting gay marriages. One of my friends told me about this. Guess what else? He's against it.


"The Lutherans" are thinking of accepting gay marriages? Now that is just not true. The Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America (ELCA) has considered the issue, yes, but that is ONE BRANCH of Lutheran faith in America. The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) still stands steadfastly against it, as does the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS). I need hardly mention that the latter two synods are conservative synods, but it does go a long way towards proving my point that "the Lutherans" accepting it is just as erroneous a statement as saying "Christians" are accepting it. Some are, some aren't, plain and simple.