is that a family photo greeplak?

From the discussion earlier this week...
https://forums.wincustomize.com/?forumid=188&aid=137488&p=1

In the thread I state that I am placing the cut-off for putting skins to "Personal Page Only" as being 5 (or 2.5 out of 5 stars), splitting the difference.  This lead to confusion over the mobility of walls between personal page and gallery.

Further down in the thread you will find my reply on items moving from personal page to public gallery.  Emphasis added here:

The only time a skin will be moved FROM the personal page to the main gallery is if it comes up for moderation again for a major update.  This is NOT an invitation to resubmit walls previously placed on the personal page after you've had friends vote the wall up a bit.  We can check the ratings records on skins and will spot attempts to manipulate the system.

Resubmitting a wall for moderation because it now has a higher rating is not an update to the work itself.

ok...without turning this into a pissing match, and meaning no disrespect, here is what i dont understand... As far as i know you havent been around skinning very long, you do not skin and have no experience rating walls based on anything other than your personal taste and yet your put in charge of moderating wallpapers? you decide a wall is not worthy of the library, so it goes to the personal gallery. Fellow seasoned artists see the wall and think it deserves a higher rating than you gave it and rate it higher and yet it stays in the personal gallery? I'm sorry Zoomba but when the other moderators rated walls they were consistent and their decision was based on years of experience in the skinning community. I would much rather have a wall rejected by Jafo then confined to a personal page by you...it just doesnt make sense. also if a wall drops below 4 stars, it is automatically removed from the library, right?...is it not possible to use that same automation so when a wall goes above 2 stars it comes out of the personal gallery, and 4 stars would go to the public library???

put the kiddies to bed, Maude...this looks to be a good 'un...and bring me a ginger ale as you come back by the fridge.

manipulate the system.

moi?

and bring me a ginger ale as you come back by the fridge.

Could ya git her to grab a Moon Pie and Grape Nehi

back to #28

Slight hijack....Skinhit, tried again and again to send ya that email but still no success via your WC email link....still keeps saying I'm missing some vital information.....

Anyhow, just in case you missed it in the other thread, my missus now has a gallery at devianArt that shows the walls I was trying to send you, plus a few more she has since completed... WWW Link

Damn Hijackers! Seriously tho' Wow! @ Mrs.Starkers Gallery over there! What is she waiting for...Submit here, Submit here!

What is she waiting for...Submit here, Submit here!

I see that you had a look my stuff on deviantart, thank you for taking the time to check out what I'm up to. I'd be interested in your thoughts and if there's anything you can suggest that would help me to improve. Being that I'm new to it, making walls and this graphic art stuff, I'd appreciate any positive input that'll help me become a better artist.

ok...without turning this into a pissing match,

I think you pissed an entire gallon with #28 but are in piss denial with the statement quoted..  
Careful... Po' has to topper of all piss stories ever and he will win!!!

Po' has to topper of all piss stories ever and he will win!!!

That just reads all wrong.

I feel for you skinhit. I will grant that walls may be judged differently than say a WB, or DXTHEME or such, as (It was stated somewhere in this thread) they are not necessarily 'skins'. I think they are more art or even personal, as they reflect, often in detail that cannot be captured in the other 'skinning' apps, a personal mood, thought, idea, expression, etc. Which has me beg the question...What are they judged on? From what I understand...usability, accuracy (depth, dimension, shadows, etc), but what else? Art. How do you judge it? I love all kinds of art. I can appreciate all of it and the time and talent that went into it. It doesn't mean I would want all of it on my wall or desktop. I have never 'understood' abstract stuff. Being that it is abstract, how the hell do you begin to judge it, compared to (JUST AN EXAMPLE) my wall 'Rage Of Angel' which is clearer in it's image representation?
When I look a work of abstract art, for me, it's a love it or leave it response. (I may not know art, but I know what I like) How is one person qualified to judge/rate vector, 3D, abstract...or ALL of it, when it is ALL so different? I assume there is a very basic guideline for the process?

As of today, 'Rage Of Angel' is up from 4 stars to 6. It's got 62 downloads...and I have no way of knowing if it would have had that many if I hadn't started the thread I did (which I started just to find out why I couldn't see it the wallpaper gallery to begin with), but I would venture to guess...probably not.I don't know how you even begin to set things up on a site like this, so I realize I have no way of knowing if it can be done that a wall is moved to the gallery when the ratings go up...but it sure doesn't seem fair that it can be moved FROM the gallery/view when the rating goes down.

To me..IMHO...sending it to the personal gallery is the same as rejecting it. Even though I don't care for rejections, I understand this is all part of the experience. I will sometimes question it, or sometimes try to reimagine the work and try again, or sometimes look at it and say 'Yeah, it was lousy.' lol. But for some reason...and I don't know why or believe I am alone in feeling this...it really bugs the crap out of me having it sent to my personal gallery. It's kinda like your Mom saying "Very nice, dear, but it's just not refrigerator material, so we'll hang this one up in your closet."

I'm going to stick my foot in it this time but why not offer another opinion, right?

Walls are not skinning. They are art. Submit them to devart and be done with it. Remove all walls that are not included with WB skins or suites or DX themes.

You want an art site for walls . . they are out there.

We don't want WC filling up with crap walls, but we don't want "the man" to be too restrictive. And what I think is crap you might think is beautiful. No one is a winner.

Move along. These are not the droids you are looking for

That just reads all wrong.

ACK! (in my best "Bill the Cat" voice).
I meant to say that ..

Po' has THE topper... not to. I guess there is only a small window of opportunity allowed to edit your posts. I pissed my opportunity away...

How many movie critic's have made a movie? How many food critic's have ever been a Chef's? One doesn't have to make walls to Mod them. I'd hate to see WC turn into another DA just to appease everyone. Where it doesn't matter if the wall is good or not, it goes up. That would suck. How many globes/swirlies would one have to make before everone would say...he can mod?...Wheather its rejected or put in the personel galleries, one should accept that and try harder. Yes ya can mumble, why me, but don't dwell on it and move on. Seems damn near every wallpaper maker has an overly inflated ego. With almost 3 million members, I'am sure someone will think every wall is the cats meow. There are some I liked that were rejected in the past and some that have made it that I thought sucked. But thats life, so why don't we move on. Oh, no one is playing favorites or do they have a grudge against anyone.

Seems damn near every wallpaper maker has an overly inflated ego.

I'm sure all of them will love to hear that!

Seems damn near every wallpaper maker has an overly inflated ego.

Well my missus is just starting out and is learning the ropes, and I can guarantee her ego ain't inflated...unless I want something.

I have a overly inflated id.

The id is an important part of our personality because as newborns, it allows us to get our basic needs met. Freud believed that the id is based on our pleasure principle. In other words, the id wants whatever feels good at the time, with no consideration for the reality of the situation. When a child is hungry, the id wants food, and therefore the child cries. When the child needs to be changed, the id cries. When the child is uncomfortable, in pain, too hot, too cold, or just wants attention, the id speaks up until his or her needs are met.

Seems damn near every wallpaper maker has an overly inflated ego.

I had to think on that one. I don't know about overinflated...but as an artist...of any kind...aren't we attention and approval seekers to some degree? That may account for some of the passion that goes into these kinds of threads. I don't know that it's ego as much as or partly just bruised feelings.

How many globes/swirlies would one have to make

How many do we need in the gallery? How many look like the last one and get a higher rating than something off the wall and different from the norm? These are just questions, not complaints.

How many movie critic's have made a movie? How many food critic's have ever been a Chef's? One doesn't have to make walls to Mod them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. All the rest are critics.

I would guess whom ever is modding was picked to do so because they have an eye for something, wether they have actually made anything or not. I can accept that. I think some people feel like the the mod and or mods without experience may be more of an 'armchair quarterback' for less of a better analogy. Where the coach might say, "If you think you can do better, then give it a try."

I kind of get the feeling that the relegating of a work to the personal gallery is going to cause a lot of mixed feelings. I wonder, if this was not the new option for mods, would the work be in the gallery and not rejected? I imagine some things are still getting rejected all together, right? So the mods have to operate around 3 categories as it were. Rejects, Good enough for the gallery, but not that good, so we can put it 'here', and Gallery?

"Very nice, dear, but it's just not refrigerator material, so we'll hang this one up in your closet."

As this is a new thing, I'll sit back and see how it plays out. It should be interesting.

As far as i know you havent been around skinning very long, you do not skin and have no experience rating walls based on anything other than your personal taste and yet your put in charge of moderating wallpapers? you decide a wall is not worthy of the library, so it goes to the personal gallery. Fellow seasoned artists see the wall and think it deserves a higher rating than you gave it and rate it higher and yet it stays in the personal gallery? I'm sorry Zoomba but when the other moderators rated walls they were consistent and their decision was based on years of experience in the skinning community.

I have to step in here, as this is simply...well...getting silly.

1) Zoomba does not function in a vacuum.
2) Moderation is not by one person, just the final posting is.
3) If I were the one to moderate that wall (and we'll keep in mind that I've been with Stardock for 11 1/2 years) I would have done exactly what he did.

In the moderation section, there is an area for moderators to leave comments on submissions.  It is not unusual to see 2 or 3 comments prior to the final moderator processing it.  So, you can't say that the wallpaper submission/rejection is all on Zoomba, because it's not.

We are *trying* to give art that doesn't fit in the wallpaper gallery a chance by putting it on people's personal pages.  This is allow people to submit work, and keep it around even if it doesn't make it to the gallery.  The other option would be to simply reject walls that don't cut it, and only put things on the personal pages if that boxed had been checked by the artist.

In the end, no matter what we do, there will be somebody who thinks we're "wrong".  Not much we can do about that, since it's obvious that there is no real solution to this problem.

Honest opinion on your wallpaper?  Try something original.  There is nothing unique or compelling about a shiny orb with rings around it.  Just because it is technically fine doesn't make it a good wallpaper.  There are hundreds of wallpapers that are based on shiny orbs on this site.  Unless it is truly unique in the way it is made, it shouldn't make it to the gallery.

The other option would be to simply reject walls that don't cut it, and only put things on the personal pages if that boxed had been checked by the artist.

Seems to be the preferred approach, (based on the limited number of responders though). Perhaps worthy of a poll to find the answer? I think the analogy by Po,

"Very nice, dear, but it's just not refrigerator material, so we'll hang this one up in your closet.

,

is felt by many.

The other option would be to simply reject walls that don't cut it, and only put things on the personal pages if that boxed had been checked by the artist.

I think you're onto something there...

My personal opinion would be that if a wall is not ... um ... good in a since then just rejecting it is kind of worse then letting it go up on a persons personal page. I for one like the idea that WC is NOT like DA. You can browse the galleries here with an amount of assurance that what you see will be at least be decent and not have to go through a lot of 'junk' to find something you might actually want. Hell as is I still only pull off one wall for every 20+ posted. Even I have had walls posted ONLY to my personal page, doesn't bother me one bit.

I think these sort of 'bashing / flaming' threads and rating threads are getting old (s--t, they have been old for a long time). Stop complaining so much people!!!!!!!!!

fair enough Karma Girl

also if a wall drops below 4 stars, it is automatically removed from the library, right?...is it not possible to use that same automation so when a wall goes above 2 stars it comes out of the personal gallery, and 4 stars would go to the public library???

is there an answer to this?