JillUser JillUser

Nonchristian vs Antichristian

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Nonchristian vs Antichristian

There's a big difference

from JoeUser Forums

I think everyone who doesn't consider themselves christian has gotten accused of being antichristian at one time or another.  I have gotten accused many times.  Ironically the accusers are people with some sort of martyr complex who assume that they will be persecuted for being christian.  They take issue with me in anticipation of my taking issue with them.

I am not denying that there are plenty of people on the planet who actually are antichristian.  I just find it odd when I or some of the kindest people I know have been labeled as such.  It isn't a 'you're either with me or against me' subject. 

I am also perplexed as to why so many christians can't fathom anyone believing in God without believing Jesus is his son.  I can understand why they can believe in Jesus not because it makes sense to me but because I am open minded and realize that other people have different experiences in life than what I have experienced in my own.  Those experiences help form how we see the world and how we fit in it.  If you see only your path, your way as being the only way, then you are not open minded.

religion
19,411 views 173 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't see Jesus as white when I picture him in my head.....dark eyes, dark hair...dark skin, like someone from the middle east would look.

Karma I was making a point that some people can be offended at even the most basic reference to God when it conflicts with their own.
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
think that my Christian way is the only way to "heaven"...


This reminds me of a joke.

DISCLAIMER this joke depicts a negative attitude of Church of Christ members.

A guy dies and goes to Heaven. Peter greets him and gives him a personal tour of Heaven. They walked into a large building. The first room they come to there were many people chanting Peter says, "these are the Catholics." The two continued on til they came to a second room. In this room people were jumping around, dancing, shaking on the floor. Peter says, "these are the Pentecostals." They continued on down the hall. Before they reached the third room Peter begins to tip toe. The new guy follows Peter's lead. When they came to this third room full of people Peter whispers in a quiet voice, "Shhh these are the Church of Christ they think their the only ones here."

END OF JOKE

For the most part I think many different denominations can be plugged in as the punch line. Overall I think it gets my point across.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
The Jewish religion specifically says that non-Jews can go to heaven (or new earth or whatever you want to call it) if they are good people. The laws of the Bible apply only to Jews. A Jew has to follow them to go to heaven, a non-Jew does not.

Islam believes that Christians and Jews will go to heaven as well as Muslims, except that the seventh level of heaven is for Muslims only. All Jews born before Muhammed are technically "Muslims" according to Islam. (No, that has NOTHING to do with today's violent Islam.)

Are you open-minded? Perhaps you are not open-minded enough. If you were, would you not have verified what the other two Abrahamic religions have to say about the matter before you announce that every religion has the belief that it is the only way to heaven?


I do not believe in the other two "Abrahamic religions". They have nothing to do with my Christianity, other than the fact that Judaism shares the first five books of the bible with us."Christ" is the core of my faith. Neither Judaism nor Islam want anything to do with my Christ.

I'm not God. It's not my job to decide who gets heaven and who gets hell. God might, and the end of it all, cover up his mouth with laughter in his eyes and say "Ha ha...joke's on you, fools! Y'all are gettin' in!" Can I say whether Jews or Muslims are getting into heaven? No. I have my belief, but I don't have the say-so at the end of it all. Perhaps YOU should take yourself down a couple of notches. You do NOT know it all.

I believe in Christ, and I believe in God, but now, I can't possibly know everything about Him. And, neither can you nor anyone else.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top

I don't see Jesus as white when I picture him in my head.....dark eyes, dark hair...dark skin, like someone from the middle east would look.


I think he looked Jewish.



I do not believe in the other two "Abrahamic religions".


Nothing to do with what I said. I was talking about learning about other religions before you make statements about them. You don't have to believe in Judaism to know what it is. And you don't have to believe that Muhammed is a prophet to know what he said.
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's funny, I'm sure I have been pegged as 'AntiChristian' as few times in my life by different people, but it was never done on purpose.

I think alot of non-christian or even non-religious minded people are in a situation like where we are in now with Muslims and the cartoon character. I think at times there might be a 'Cultural expansion' between non-Christ'ies and Christrians.

A lot of us are rolling our eyes at the muslim world wondering why they are getting all worked up. I have the same look alot of times when christians are getting all worked up over an 'Anti-Christian' remark someone said. I simple can not relate most times to waht they are digging at.

There are some really foriegn ideas to me when it comes to Religion
+ Praying to someone
+ Loving Christ/God/Whatever more than your kids
+ Trusting a book to guide your life
ect...
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
and living a moral, ethical life is the key to heaven


I respectfully disagree. I can be Hitler and say "I'm going to heaven because what I did is moral and ethical," while the other billions of people out there know that's not so at all. Hitler probably believed what he was doing was right at the time. So...if he believes it...that means it's okay?

Who sets the standard of what's moral and ethical?

I believe alot of getting into heaven is knowing that you don't know it all. I'm a Christian of course, and that's a part of it. I don't know it all, and I'll never know it all, and I do lots of shitty stuff to people, and I think lots of crappy thoughts about myself, other people, and God, too. But to other people I'm still nice lots of times. But I'd say overall I'm not really all that great. Other people might say I deserve to go to Heaven. But I'm not so sure....
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nothing to do with what I said. I was talking about learning about other religions before you make statements about them. You don't have to believe in Judaism to know what it is. And you don't have to believe that Muhammed is a prophet to know what he said.


Yes, Yoda. I'll make sure I plug time into my schedule to get all that studying done on top of cleaning, caring for my family, working my job, grading papers, and maybe...just maybe paying my bills.

I think he looked Jewish.


You were there? Do you have a Polaroid? No one knows exactly what Jesus looked like. It's all imaginary. All those artists renditions are just that...artists renditions. Jesus is one-half God. So...that would mean that he looks kinda like God. Hmmmmm...that's interesting. Does it really matter what he looked like?
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's statements like THAT (equating the resurrection with Santa Claus) that explain why I have nothing to do with the DNC, ben. And it is ironic because, in a thread where tolerance was pretty much the rule, you had to show exactly what an anti-Christian IS.


Gid, that is an emotional response. I understand the response but try to take an objective look at what he said. I am not a fan of BenUser but I was able to look objectively at what he said. Lumping Jesus in with those other beliefs feels offensive to a christian I am sure but really look at a couple of the definitions of the word Myth-

A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth.

Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth.

A popular belief or story that has become associated with a person, institution, or occurrence, especially one considered to illustrate a cultural ideal

Without faith, the resurrection is merely myth. He wasn't equating the resurrection with Santa Claus, he was just using the two along with other beliefs to make a point. Can you actually prove that Santa, ghosts, martians, etc. don't exist? Ben might not be delicate in the way he says things but I didn't see any antichristianity in what he wrote.



I think Tova was dead on when she discussed the hypersensitivity that is always part of conversations about religion.


That is why there is the old saying that religion and politics are not polite dinner conversation. I say dinner is far too boring without said topics!
Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top
I can be Hitler and say "I'm going to heaven because what I did is moral and ethical," while the other billions of people out there know that's not so at all. Hitler probably believed what he was doing was right at the time. So...if he believes it...that means it's okay?


Um, there is a difference between leading a moral life and believing that you lead a moral life. I don't think anyone is going to argue that Hitler was a moral man.

I also think that you missed Leauki's point (which I am the first to admit, I often miss his point (sorry Leauki). I believe, and could be wrong, that he was responding to your comment that all religions think their way is the only way.

This is what you said:
I think that my Christian way is the only way to "heaven"...does that make me not open minded? I don't think so. I think every religion has that belief...


Having re-read it, and read what you've said since, I think you were only referring to Christian religions when you said "every religion"--if that is true, I understand why you thought Leauki's comments were off the mark. But strictly from what you wrote, he was dead-on point out that other religions do in fact have an inclusive "heaven" or afterlife.

I know that you hold God very dear to your heart, and I understand why you are "protecting" him. But, if I can be honest with you, you come off sounding a bit rabid. For example, Leauki said:


I think he looked Jewish.


and you responded:
You were there? Do you have a Polaroid? No one knows exactly what Jesus looked like. It's all imaginary. All those artists renditions are just that...artists renditions. Jesus is one-half God. So...that would mean that he looks kinda like God. Hmmmmm...that's interesting. Does it really matter what he looked like?


Leauki was merely stating his opinion. I've often wondered what Christ looks like. I stare up at the cross in Church and contemplate whether or not the dipiction is accurate. I find it interesting to hear what other people think he looks like. (And I will be honest, I have a sneaking suspicion that Leauki was employing a little bit of dry wit with his comment)--regardless, it certainly did need such a sarcastic reply.

Just my two cents --to be taken or left, however you choose!
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top
That is why there is the old saying that religion and politics are not polite dinner conversation. I say dinner is far too boring without said topics!


Same here--but only if everyone has agreed upon the ground rules in the beginning
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
think he looked Jewish.


You were there?


Whoa there Marcie. I think he said he looked Jewish because, well, Jesus was Jewish.

Yes, Yoda. I'll make sure I plug time into my schedule to get all that studying done on top of cleaning, caring for my family, working my job, grading papers, and maybe...just maybe paying my bills.


What if you got that response from someone who denounced Jesus without ever taking a look at the bible?



Jesus is one-half God. So...that would mean that he looks kinda like God.


Weren't we all supposedly created in God's likeness? So that wouldn't really narrow down what he looked like would it.

Does it really matter what he looked like?


Apparently it does to some.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
That is why there is the old saying that religion and politics are not polite dinner conversation. I say dinner is far too boring without said topics!


Same here--but only if everyone has agreed upon the ground rules in the beginning


Absolutely.
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
Um, there is a difference between leading a moral life and believing that you lead a moral life. I don't think anyone is going to argue that Hitler was a moral man.


I think you'd be surprised at how many people thought at the time that Hitler was moral, and how many people STILL think he was a moral man. And still, what person or group of people sets those standards? Who's to say what moral is or isn't?

Having re-read it, and read what you've said since, I think you were only referring to Christian religions when you said "every religion"--if that is true, I understand why you thought Leauki's comments were off the mark. But strictly from what you wrote, he was dead-on point out that other religions do in fact have an inclusive "heaven" or afterlife.


Nope. I meant that every religion--Hindu, Buddhist, etc., and then moved on to the disrepencies just in the Christian sects.

Leauki was merely stating his opinion. I've often wondered what Christ looks like. I stare up at the cross in Church and contemplate whether or not the dipiction is accurate. I find it interesting to hear what other people think he looks like. (And I will be honest, I have a sneaking suspicion that Leauki was employing a little bit of dry wit with his comment)--regardless, it certainly did need such a sarcastic reply.


I've wondered, too, and it's a perfectly normal thing to wonder. But, see, here's the deal: when you tell me that I'm not "open-minded enough" and perhaps I should re-examine my beliefs, I think a sarcastic reply is perfectly warranted.

I appreciate your concern, shades, but I don't think it's necessary to tell me how to or how not to respond to people.
Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
Weren't we all supposedly created in God's likeness? So that wouldn't really narrow down what he looked like would it.


Exactly my point. We all look like God. So if you jumble us all together...there you have it.
Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top
What if you got that response from someone who denounced Jesus without ever taking a look at the bible?


I believe what I believe, Jill. I had a choice, and so does every one else. Leauki took it upon himself to call me narrow-minded and say that God's not a nitpicker...well...hmmmm...

I sure got nit picked, wouldn't you say?
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
Marcie

stop spam quoting people.
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nope. I meant that every religion--Hindu, Buddhist, etc., and then moved on to the disrepencies just in the Christian sects.


Well, then Leauki was right. Not every religion thinks that theirs is the only way to heaven.

I appreciate your concern, shades, but I don't think it's necessary to tell me how to or how not to respond to people.


You are free to respond how you'd like--but don't be surprised when people bite back. Leauki said you were narrowminded because you assumed things about other religions without learning about them. Narrowminded means "lacking of breadth of view"--which in this case, you clearly were.


I think you'd be surprised at how many people thought at the time that Hitler was moral, and how many people STILL think he was a moral man. And still, what person or group of people sets those standards? Who's to say what moral is or isn't?


Honestly, I'm not going to debate whether or not Hitler was moral. I'm honestly quite shocked that anyone would suggest that a person responsible for the murder of more than 6 million people could possibly be considered moral. I don't support the notion of moral relativism--some things are just wrong, plain and simple. I also don't think that you have to be Christian to know right from wrong. Willfully causing sorrow, suffering and hurt is wrong. Seems fairly simple to me.
Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top
Tova:
I don't see Jesus as white when I picture him in my head.....dark eyes, dark hair...dark skin, like someone from the middle east would look.


Yeah, I've always wondered why so many depict him as lilly white with blonde hair and blue eyes myself. I've also wondered why so many paintings in Europe depict him as kind of weak looking, even effeminate. If he was a carpenter, he probably would have been well toned, but not muscle bound.

I've heard some people speculate that He may have been Black, but that wouldn't go with either the descriptions of him or the area where he was born he spent his life.
Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top
But, see, here's the deal: when you tell me that I'm not "open-minded enough" and perhaps I should re-examine my beliefs, I think a sarcastic reply is perfectly warranted.


Sorry to respond twice, but just for the record, Leauki did not tell you to reexamine your beliefs. He corrected a statment that you made that was factually wrong:

Are you open-minded? Perhaps you are not open-minded enough. If you were, would you not have verified what the other two Abrahamic religions have to say about the matter before you announce that every religion has the belief that it is the only way to heaven?
Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
Okay. Sorry!
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yes, Yoda. I'll make sure I plug time into my schedule to get all that studying done on top of cleaning, caring for my family, working my job, grading papers, and maybe...just maybe paying my bills.


You realise, of course, that we also have jobs and flats, and some of us have families (I do not).

I work nine hours a day, study in the evenings, go to shul on Fridays, and learn Hebrew on the weekends. But that doesn't mean that when I say something about another religion without learning about it first, I get an automatic excuse.

I read the Christian Bible, the original (German) Luther translation too, and the Qur'an as well (in English). I found that this was too important not to be done, even though I might have little time for it. How can I talk about other people's religions without a minimum effort to, of not understand, at least learn about them?



Whoa there Marcie. I think he said he looked Jewish because, well, Jesus was Jewish.


I did some research before I said that. It turns out Jesus was a Jew and many apparently claim he was from the family of David. He was thus, genetically, a pure-blooded Jew. I figure it's thus a safe bet that he looked Jewish.



Weren't we all supposedly created in God's likeness?


Look at me. Do you think G-d wears glasses?
Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok, as I said, I am not an expert on theology.

But here's the deal on us being created in G-d's likeness:

It's not about looks.

"B’tzelem Elohim" means in G-d's image. But it doesn't refer to looks because G-d doesn't have looks. It refers to other traits, namely free will and the ability to differentiate and choose between good and evil.

The Allen joke about the glasses is thus philosophical. It points out the fallacy in assuming that we actually _look_ like G-d. We do not. Nobody and nothing does.
Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
(Yes, I know about Ruth.)
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
I read the Christian Bible, the original (German) Luther translation too, and the Qur'an as well (in English). I found that this was too important not to be done, even though I might have little time for it. How can I talk about other people's religions without a minimum effort to, of not understand, at least learn about them?


Unfortunately I'm an ignoramus because I don't know German or Latin, just a little bit of French and Spanish.

I apologize for having an opinion.
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top
Marcie

stop spam quoting people.


spam quoting?

Unfortunately, I don't need nor want your advice, either. If Jill doesn't want me here, it is well within her means to help me out the door. She's a big girl and she can run her own blog.