G-d doesn't have looks

For not being a theological expert you sure seem to know alot about it. How do you know for sure God doesn't have looks?

Marcie stop spam quoting people.

Sushi, that was out of line. She is responding in the way she sees fit. She is staying on topic and not calling anyone (except maybe herself ) names. She is welcome here on my blog.

I did some research before I said that. It turns out Jesus was a Jew and many apparently claim he was from the family of David. He was thus, genetically, a pure-blooded Jew. I figure it's thus a safe bet that he looked Jewish.

While Jesus was indeed Jewish, he was not a descendant of David. That was a myth created by Christians to help make their case that Jesus was the messiah.

Ok, as I said, I am not an expert on theology. But here's the deal on us being created in G-d's likeness: It's not about looks. "B’tzelem Elohim" means in G-d's image. But it doesn't refer to looks because G-d doesn't have looks. It refers to other traits, namely free will and the ability to differentiate and choose between good and evil.

Like you said, you aren't an expert and noone on Earth is when it comes to what God looks like. Therefore, noone can state as fact that God doesn't have looks and being created in his own image doesn't mean in likeness.

The Allen joke about the glasses is thus philosophical. It points out the fallacy in assuming that we actually _look_ like G-d. We do not.

So if my child wears glasses and I don't, my child can't look like me? Do you see the problem with that argument. Noone said we look exactly like him. That is impossible. Noone looks exactly like their parent either.

I agree with you that God isn't a nitpicker but I also agree that you are being a bit nit picky. Of course you did have the disclaimer that you aren't an expert so you are admitting the possibility of fallacy with your statement.

While Jesus was indeed Jewish, he was not a descendant of David.

Ben in a sense I do agree with you as we cannot use Joseph to link him to David. Joseph was not his biological father. But someone was telling me that they found that Mary was (I'm not saying this is factual). Has anyone checked into this?

Sushi, that was out of line. She is responding in the way she sees fit. She is staying on topic and not calling anyone (except maybe herself ) names. She is welcome here on my blog.

My appologies

I do not believe in the other two "Abrahamic religions". They have nothing to do with my Christianity, other than the fact that Judaism shares the first five books of the bible with us."Christ" is the core of my faith. Neither Judaism nor Islam want anything to do with my Christ.

Judaism doesn't "share" the first five books. Judaism is based on the laws of the Torah, the five books of Moses, which (supposedly) was dictated to Moses by God. Christians took the word of God (the Torah), renamed it the Old Testament, and in effect, modified the word of God to create their new religion.

Much of what Jesus preached was the same as what many other Jewish priests were preaching at the time. It was the apostle Paul who shifted Christianity from a religion of the teachings of Jesus to a religion ABOUT Jesus. Paul came up with the concept that belief is the only thing that is really important and our actions are secondary. It was too difficult for many to abide by the laws of the Torah. With Paul’s new religion, all you had to do is believe in Jesus and you achieve eternal salvation when you die. What a deal! What a marketing campaign!

Ben in a sense I do agree with you as we cannot use Joseph to link him to David. Joseph was not his biological father. But someone was telling me that they found that Mary was (I'm not saying this is factual). Has anyone checked into this?

Mary was a descendant of David as well.

Sushi, that was out of line. She is responding in the way she sees fit. She is staying on topic and not calling anyone (except maybe herself ) names. She is welcome here on my blog.

Thanks, Jill. I appreciate your letting me be a guest here!

Judaism doesn't "share" the first five books. Judaism is based on the laws of the Torah, the five books of Moses, which (supposedly) was dictated to Moses by God. Christians took the word of God (the Torah), renamed it the Old Testament, and in effect, modified the word of God to create their new religion.

So...basically your saying that the first five books of my Bible are different that the Jewish Torah? I don't think so. Christians added books to the OT, and after Jesus came and went the NT was added, but we didn't "modify" it.

Much of what Jesus preached was the same as what many other Jewish priests were preaching at the time. It was the apostle Paul who shifted Christianity from a religion of the teachings of Jesus to a religion ABOUT Jesus. Paul came up with the concept that belief is the only thing that is really important and our actions are secondary. It was too difficult for many to abide by the laws of the Torah. With Paul’s new religion, all you had to do is believe in Jesus and you achieve eternal salvation when you die. What a deal! What a marketing campaign!

Paul lived with Jesus and was with him all the time. Paul wrote a lot of the New Testament, but JESUS said it was all about Him, not Paul. And the Torah is too difficult for ANYONE to live by. I mean...how many times have I had to run into the street to stop my fiancee from fighting and grab him by his privates and drag him home, only to have my hand cut off later? Thank heavens they regenerate. (Sorry...that law in Leviticus was always one of my favorite ones.)

It took me a long time to see the relationship between the OT and the NT. See...prior to Christ, the Jews were sacrificing animals once a year to pay for their sins. They had to take an unblemished sheep, goat, doves, etc. (whatever their station allowed), to the temple and kill it, and the spilled blood would cover their transgretions for the year. But...see...a bird, or a goat, or a calf, even if they're perfect, aren't even CLOSE to a human.

Jesus' crucifixion was the HUMAN sacrifice that was needed to pay for the sins of man. Because of Jesus, everything changed.

I've been a Christian since I was 7. I'm 25 now. And to be honest with you, I still don't understand a lot of it. I don't think I ever will. But I do know this much: it works for me. My faith makes me a better person. It helps me be that "moral and upstanding" person that shades was refering to up yonder. I would even go so far to say that the times that I'm really reading the Bible and talking to God are the times when my depression is alleviated along with my stress levels. I don't think my faith makes me weak, I think it builds me up and makes me stronger.

I don't expect anyone else to believe just cause I do. It's a choice I made almost two decades ago. There have been peaks and valleys in my faith for sure. There have been times I've felt close to God and other times I've felt far away. But God and my faith have always been a constant. I don't need scientific proof. I have proof in my own life and in the life of others that I know and love that God is alive and well and wants a relationship with me. ~shrugs~

Sorry...that was kind of a vendetta. Bad Marcie.

The Jewish religion specifically says that non-Jews can go to heaven (or new earth or whatever you want to call it) if they are good people

They're called 'righteous gentiles' and I'm very honored to have been called one.

I believe that if you live a mindful life - meaning that you go through life without deliberately harming anyone, without taking that which does not belong to you and refraining from deception - and that you do good not only when the opportunity presents itself but you actively seek out opportunities to help your fellow man...well, that's all you need to be recycled when your time in this world is over. You don't need rituals, you don't need to know scripture backwards and forwards and upside down, you don't have to have been baptised and confirmed, and the fact that you wore jeans and tennis shoes to church on a sunday and shocked the rest of the congregation with your blatant sacrelidge won't matter a bit.

It's who you are as a person and what you do with your time here that really matters. I wish that more people would understand that.

They're called 'righteous gentiles' and I'm very honored to have been called one. I believe that if you live a mindful life - meaning that you go through life without deliberately harming anyone, without taking that which does not belong to you and refraining from deception - and that you do good not only when the opportunity presents itself but you actively seek out opportunities to help your fellow man...well, that's all you need to be recycled when your time in this world is over. You don't need rituals, you don't need to know scripture backwards and forwards and upside down, you don't have to have been baptised and confirmed, and the fact that you wore jeans and tennis shoes to church on a sunday and shocked the rest of the congregation with your blatant sacrelidge won't matter a bit. It's who you are as a person and what you do with your time here that really matters. I wish that more people would understand that.

While I don't agree with your theology (and we both know that...lol), I think your last statement is really what it's all about. I think that no matter what your beliefs are you *should* try to be a good person.

One of my favorite Christian songs goes like this:

"What will you do with the time that's left, will you live it all with no regrets?
Will they say that you loved till your final breath? What will you do with the time that's left?"

When I die...I so want that played at my funeral.

Leauki I too see Jesus as Jewish and since the Bible tells us David was handsome...I see Jesus as being handsome as well....and well built having worked physically his whole life...

For some reason tho, when I think Jewish man, I get JEFF GOLDBLUM in my mind...I guess because I think he is HOT.

Big nose and all!

Oh yea!

"For some reason tho, when I think Jewish man, I get JEFF GOLDBLUM in my mind...I guess because I think he is HOT. Big nose and all!"

The ladies seemed to like Sammy Davis Jr, too.

I apologize for having an opinion.

For someone who wonders about their own open-mindedness you sure are easily offended. For example I never said you are not allowed to have an opinion.

I merely pointed out that something you said about other religions was wrong and that maybe you shouldn't have said it without learning about the other religions first.

You don't seem to mind risking to offend other people though.

Like you said, you aren't an expert and noone on Earth is when it comes to what God looks like. Therefore, noone can state as fact that God doesn't have looks and being created in his own image doesn't mean in likeness.

The Bible says that G-d is incorporeal. The Talmud confirms. How could He have looks if he has no form?

It's not proof, I know, but everything else we think we know about G-d is based on the same literature.

So if my child wears glasses and I don't, my child can't look like me?

If you have no physical appearance and are a being that created the world rather than be a product of it, I would say that, yes, if your child wears glasses he doesn't look like you.

Do you see the problem with that argument.

No. I also said it was a joke, not an argument. It's still true though.

The ladies seemed to like Sammy Davis Jr, too.

they were both real hep cats, man.

Leauki I too see Jesus as Jewish and since the Bible tells us David was handsome...I see Jesus as being handsome as well....and well built having worked physically his whole life...

Exactly. That's him all right.

The Bible says that G-d is incorporeal. The Talmud confirms. How could He have looks if he has no form? It's not proof, I know, but everything else we think we know about G-d is based on the same literature.

Speak for yourself Leauki. Everything YOU feel you know about God is based on literature. I was actually just using Marcie's quote to point out that it really didn't say anything about how Jesus looked. I myself don't believe he was the son of God and I don't trust the bible to give me the information I need about God.

Sometimes I just play devil's advocate.

It's still true though.

I'm sorry Leauki but I won't be accepting any definitive statements about God as being true or false. You don't have anymore credentials when it comes to our creator than I do. Unless, of course, you have been in the presence of God and been given authority to enlighten the rest of us

Speak for yourself Leauki. Everything YOU feel you know about God is based on literature. I was actually just using Marcie's quote to point out that it really didn't say anything about how Jesus looked.

I don't get it.

If the Bible doesn't describe what Jesus looked like, we don't know whether he looked Jewish even though we have it on good authority that he was Jewish. So here we use the Bible as an authoritative source. (Even without the Bible it's a safe bet to say that anyone born in that region to a Jewish mother would look Jewish.)

But when the Bible says that G-d is incorporeal, when in fact entire religions are based on that idea, and we discuss that same G-d, we cannot know that He is incorporeal because only the Bible says so but nobody has seen Him?

So do we or do we not accept the Bible as correct in its descriptions of G-d and His alleged son?

For me the Bible is the most accurate source when it comes to descriptions of the Jewish (and Christian) G-d. The Bible defines these religions and it thus the primary source here.

Paul lived with Jesus and was with him all the time

Where did you get this info Marcie? Everything I have ever read says that it is doubtful they ever even met. Paul even persecuted christians until he had a vision of Jesus on a journey to Damascus.

But God and my faith have always been a constant. I don't need scientific proof.

It's a good thing because that is impossible. Again, proof negates faith.

Sorry...that was kind of a vendetta.

I don't know what vendetta you figured you had or how your comment filled it.

For me the Bible is the most accurate source when it comes to descriptions of the Jewish (and Christian) G-d. The Bible defines these religions and it thus the primary source here.

I'm not Jewish or Christian and neither are a lot of other people who still believe in God. Jesus was a real person born to a Jewish mother (and most likely as far as nonchristians are concerned, a Jewish father). That is why I figure he looked Jewish. I only brought what the bible said into the subject to point out that it was kind of silly to say that his being half-God would have any baring on what he looked like.

I actually agree that God doesn't have "a look" but not because of anything the bible says.

Yes, Yoda. I'll make sure I plug time into my schedule to get all that studying done on top of cleaning, caring for my family, working my job, grading papers, and maybe...just maybe paying my bills.

Hmmm.... I guess this pretty much sums up what turns me off about most "Christians".  Though they think that everyone should learn about their religion, they don't have "time" to learn about the other religions.  Anyone who knows me knows that I am crazy busy *all* the time.  Yet, I have still found time to learn about a wide range of religions and philosophies.  I have even spent quite a bit of time (which I am still doing) learning about the differences in denominations of the Christian Church as well as Jehovah's Witnesses who are classified as "Christian" but really aren't by definition.  Why do I do it?  To keep learning and to keep my mind open to every possibility. 

I can't debate with somebody on religion if they only have "time" to learn about one before "debating".

I am not anti-Christian, but I am definitely not "Christian".  I just feel that all the other religions, which believe in "God", but not having to take Jesus as your saviour, make more sense.  I won't say that Christians are "wrong", because I don't know.  I've just started on my path to enlightenment- I still have a long way to go.

I guess this pretty much sums up what turns me off about most "Christians".

Yes. I guess she went into victim-mode a bit too quickly. I am slightly offended though, because she seemed to assume that the things she lists are specific to her, and that she is therefore exempt from having to learn about other religions before talking about them.

Non-Christians work too, they clean, they care for their families. But many among them (and Christians too) still find the time to do some basic research on things they feel they want to talk about. And if they don't, they are not offended if what they say turns out to be wrong.

I can't debate with somebody on religion if they only have "time" to learn about one before "debating".

Yes, I suppose that is true.

And it is an unfortunate fact that without such debate, Christianity would never have reached Marcie to give her what she apparently got from it. Perhaps it shouldn't stop there?

Paul came up with the concept that belief is the only thing that is really important and our actions are secondary. It was too difficult for many to abide by the laws of the Torah. With Paul’s new religion, all you had to do is believe in Jesus and you achieve eternal salvation when you die. What a deal! What a marketing campaign!

The reading that I have done regarding Paul brings me to agree with BenUser again (I doubt you'll see me say this about politics ever ). If you have faith, I guess you can explain it away as Paul having been guided by God to do so, but an objective bystander tends to see it as Paul taking the liberty of making christianity more pallitable to the masses. Very political. Christianity would not be what it is today without Paul. He was indeed a marketing genius.

Marcie wrote:

Paul wrote a lot of the New Testament,

actually he wrote at least 14 of the 27 books of the NT. So I think "a lot" should be replaced with "most". He also wrote that women should "learn in silence with all subjection" and not be alowed to "usurp authority over man".
So Paul isn't so appealing to the liberated women of today, in my opinion.

can't debate with somebody on religion if they only have "time" to learn about one before "debating".

I do find it frustrating to try to debate religion with christians who expect me to have studied the bible but they don't feel they should be expected to know anything about any other religion because theirs is the end all be all.

Sorry, Jill--this comment is going to be off topic, so you won't hurt my feelings if you delete it.

Non-Christians work too, they clean, they care for their families. But many among them (and Christians too) still find the time to do some basic research on things they feel they want to talk about.

Leauki--Based on your knowledge on this thread and a couple of others I've read recently, I am curious if you ever formally studied religion/theology. I know you said you've read the Bible and the Koran--but your breadth of knowledge is quite remarkable. I'm very impressed.