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Catholic Misconceptions

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Catholic Misconceptions

from JoeUser Forums

I am putting this under religion because lately there has been a lot of misconceptions about Catholicism.

Now I will be the first to say that I don't understand all other religions, but I am willing to and have learned from the believers of said religions.  And when I am wrong, call me on it, although as I don't assume about other religions much, I don't guess I will get many calls.

But lately, someone has decided Catholicism is a cult!  And they listed reasons, 6 of 7 wrong! and the 7th?  Something practiced by all Christian, Judiasm and Muslim religions!  I guess that makes 3/4 of the world a sect!  Duh!

Today we are going to discuss Annulment.  For those who know the truth, fine.  This is for the other 75% who don't have a clue, including many Catholics!

In Catholicism, we believe that when a man marries a woman, and it is blessed by the church, the love of Christ has entered into the union.  And I suspect every one hopes that as well.  But we must promise that we will allow that love to guide us in raising our children!  Yep, that may be Cultish, but one of the promises is to raise the children Catholic!

Now all is well for 1, 2 5, 10 20 years.  And then Mommy and Daddy get divorced!  Something went wrong!  Indeed it did, although, yep!  I was totally clueless (My family was not).

So I got a divorce.  I found out, via her shrink, for a non event about her brother raping her (he did not, they were just....well...I did not know it when I married her, and not until the divorce)., that she never loved me.

Excuse me?  I spent 20 years of my life married (plus a couple dating)!  But that was an epiphany.  And no, it was not a spite thing.  This was her shrink! (she still needs one BTW).

So we divorced.  I should have known she was and is a complete psycho!  her mother is and was! But I thought we could be peaceful!  hehehehehe!  yea I am stupid!

So you see the set up.  The Judge nailed her and her quota kid lawyer to the wall! (Never hire a quota kid if you want to win).

So she jumps in bed with some witless wonder, and I am sitting on a bunch of assets, and a lot of income.  Only child support now!

Then I met a goddess!  A woman who loves me, and yea she bitch slaps me (Note for Trudy - it is not always bad) when I deserve it (and sometimes when I don't).  We marry years later.  But her family is Catholic.  She is not a good one, but once a Catholic, always a Catholic!

So I do the Annulment thing.  It was long but not hard, as since my first wife never loved me (she used me to get away from an abusive situation), it was never in doubt.  I did not lie (I did not have to).  And she never contested it (although her stories to the kids leave a lot to be desired).

Why was the annulment so easy?  Did it make my children bastards?

The answer to the first is simple.  You cannot have the love of Christ in your Marriage when one party lied at the vows!  And the second part is just as easy.  No they are not.  We were married, legally and in the eyes of the church.  But Man is not infallible, and they need to acknowledge their errors.

The Church did. period.

So all you who get on your horse about annulment, chill!  It has nothing to do with bastardization!  It has nothing to do with making something disappear!

it has everything to do with realizing that sometimes, marriages are flawed from the get go!

So if you want to hate my religion, please do so for the right reasons!  not for some ignorant ones.

religion
26,054 views 211 replies
Reply #51 from JoeUser Forums Top

Vatican II and the Reformation are two totally different events... And why do you say you couldn't have been a Catholic before Vatican II?

if you read all the comments, you would know I was not confusing the 2!  I lived through Vatican II!  I am not old enough to have gone through the reformation!

And why?  Because the liturgy and the faith was steeped in mysticism.  Sorry, my faith has to mean something to me.  I am not going to stand and watch a shaman as he turns his back and performs hocus pocus.  Once they decided to turn towards the congregation and engage them in the liturgy and allowed us to question, and answer those questions, then I came back.

But thank you for the question.

Reply #52 from JoeUser Forums Top

Haha. According to the Bible, Satan quotes Scripture as well.

Oh!  Tex just launched a torpedo!

Siege of Centauri
Reply #53 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply By: shadesofgrey

Posted: Thursday, November 03, 2005

Woof!  And a big thank you!  that was really great!  We may be on opposite sides in a political debate, but I got to say

You go girl!

Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top
Catholic bashing is part of our shared Anglo-American heritage, albeit a rather unpleasant one, as Sir Peter demonstrates humourously (?!) and ziggy rather less so.

An interesting historical side note on this. King George III (who lost the 13 colonies) steadfastly refused to allow Catholic Emancipation (the granting of full civil rights to catholics) because he claimed that he would be breaking his coronation oath in doing so. So, emancipation had to wait until 1829 during the reign of King George IV. Now, in the war of 1812, also during the reign of George III, many catholic French Canadians fought for the British crown. They did so because they believed (probably wrongly) that even the bigoted monarch in London was a better guarantor of their civil and religious rights than the Founding Fathers of their southern neighbour, which shows that the anti-catholic rhetoric in the young republic must have been pretty fierce! And it did take nearly 200 years for a catholic to be elected president of the USA.

Tomorrow, all over the UK, people will light fireworks and burn a traitor in effigy on top of a bonfire in celebration of the 400th anniversary of Guy Fawkes' unsuccessful catholic plot to blow up the House of Lords, with the King and all his ministers. Link In one English town they still have a 'quaint' old local custom of burning an effigy of the Pope on this night.

In the case of one nation, the hostility was a result of a puritan heritage that saw the New World as a chance to create a (protestant) New Jersualem, in the case of the other the animosity was at least as much political as religious. To a disturbing degree, although the bloody wars of religion are behind us, the national identity of both countries still contains a strong component of anti-catholic thought, although the separation of church and state in the US goes a long way to mitigate this.

I think it is perfectly legitimate to have differing religious opinions: it makes the world richer and more interesting. Nor do I necessarily acknowledge any duty to understand other religions - after all understanding one's own can often be hard enough. I can also see that those who believe that they have a unique handle on the truth will feel impelled to share that with the rest of us, however tiresome we may find it.

My final thought - I suppose an acknowledgement of where I stand - is that those religious traditions that are able to acknowledge the validity of other traditions are both spiritually and psychologically more mature than the others. But if that acknowledgement is too difficult, then a little charity and civility will suffice instead - after all, that seems to be a pre-requisite for all religious traditions.
Reply #55 from JoeUser Forums Top

An interesting historical side note on this. King George III (who lost the 13 colonies)

Just a side note, and not to get this to far afield, but how did Lord Baltimore manage to get a colony?

Reply #56 from JoeUser Forums Top
For example, Tova, you say that Catholics pray to idols--by this I assume that you mean saints.


Whoa BACK ON UP OFF ME shades of grey....

I said

So I have been to churches who teach Catholics aren't Christians because they pray to idols and think Mary was sinless, add to scripture, and on and on...you wouldn't believe some of the things...but what I believe is this....there are Catholic Christians and I know a few! Each person in every Christian denomination has to have an INDIVIDUAL relationship with Christ and believe Jesus is God, came died and rose from the grave. Ya know?


I said I have been to churches who teach that, I didn't say I BELIEVE it.

There are Christians in every denomination, and chaff in every denomination. I wasn't saying Catholics aren't Christians. You misread my whole reply.

I've said it before and I'll say it again so you are clear. I don't care WHAT you call yourself, or what church you attend. I believe if you have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour then you are a CHRISTIAN. Period. All the other junk is just that, junk. I don't believe for a minute Christ would have us arguing over the details.

I am not a Catholic basher. Do I agree with everything they do? No, or I'd be Catholic. Sheesh.
Reply #57 from JoeUser Forums Top
How did Lord Baltimore manage to get a colony?

I had to google this as I hadn't realised that Lord Baltimore, the 'Proprietary Governor' of Maryland in the seventeenth century, was a Catholic.

Briefly, (so as to not go too far afield), the First Baron Baltimore converted to Catholicism in 1625, whereupon he lost his political office of Secretary of State in England. However, as a reward for his services to the crown he was granted a Royal Charter for the province of Maryland, in addition to the charter he already held in Newfoundland where he had tried to found a 'haven for persecuted catholics'.

His son, The second Baron Baltimore (also a Catholic) never visited Maryland and had to rule through a Protestant deputy named William Stone. In fact during the rule of Oliver Cromwell the puritans did take Maryland away from him, but the grant was restored to his family in 1657.

The Third Baron Baltimore, who got into a dispute with William Penn about the borders of Maryland and Pennsylvania had his Royal Charter withdrawn in 1689, when the Catholic monarch James II was deposed and replaced by King William (III) and Queen Mary (II). The colony then transferred directly to the monarchy.
Reply #58 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do shake my head in disbelief when I see Christians of various sects arguing and condemning each other over petty differences in technique, tradition, and ritual.

That ought to go without saying, however I was forcibly struck by a reply I received from Dan Kaschel on his thread when he said:
People are what they are. What people believe rarely gives them kindness, tolerance, or compassion. When religion can do that for a person, a miracle has occurred.

When I stopped to think about that it seemed to be saying that religion is in no wise exempt from all the usual arrogance, egotism, competitiveness and spite that we are able to bring to every other human activity. Sad, and probably true.
Reply #59 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am not a Catholic basher.


I'll agree to disagree with you on this one. I apologize if you thought I was attacking you--it wasn't my intention.
Reply #60 from JoeUser Forums Top

had to google this as I hadn't realised that Lord Baltimore, the 'Proprietary Governor' of Maryland in the seventeenth century, was a Catholic.

DOH!  I should have done that!  But thank you for taking the time.

Reply #61 from JoeUser Forums Top

Do I agree with everything they do? No, or I'd be Catholic. Sheesh.

But we will assimilate you!

But thank you for your response and clarification.  I understood your original response and I should have corrected shades, but she was on a horse!

Reply #62 from JoeUser Forums Top

When I stopped to think about that it seemed to be saying that religion is in no wise exempt from all the usual arrogance, egotism, competitiveness and spite that we are able to bring to every other human activity. Sad, and probably true.

Probably because religion is an invention of man, who is notably fallible.  Whereas Faith is a relationship with God.

Reply #63 from JoeUser Forums Top
I should have corrected shades, but she was on a horse!


Wow. I think I will remove myself from this conversation now. Wouldn't want to fall off that horse that I'm on.
Reply #64 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wow. I think I will remove myself from this conversation now. Wouldn't want to fall off that horse that I'm on.


Yeah its a long way down.

But we will assimilate you!
But thank you for your response and clarification. I understood your original response and I should have corrected shades, but she was on a horse!


Buwuahaha. You know what's so funny about this whole thing? We move around A LOT and no matter where I move the first, oh, I'd say ten friends I make before finding a church family are almost without exception practicing CATHOLICS.....

I think it is funny because I love to debate and of course we CAN'T stay away from religion.....but we don't ever seem to get ugly about it.

There are things I do love about Catholics....

1. They build churches that boggle the mind in beauty and architecture. I don't care if you are Catholic or not...when you walk into a large church with lots of stained glass....you whisper. The reverence of the building in honoring God, I love it. I can't stand going to most new churches now days because they look like theaters instead of houses of worship. Half of them don't even bother hanging a cross! (That is my preference I know, but shesh).

2. I love the weddings...and growing up mostly Baptist, I love the PARTY afterward!! Oh yeah, I ALWAYS went to Catholic dances in high school because the chaperons always opened up the bar, not for us of course, but once they got tanked, we could do what we wanted.

3. Tradition. I like the stability of it. At least in the lives of the friends I have...

That's just off the top of my head......
Reply #66 from JoeUser Forums Top

Wow. I think I will remove myself from this conversation now. Wouldn't want to fall off that horse that I'm on.

No, I really liked your response.  It was good.  But in Tova7's defense, she did not say she was like that, only that she had seen things like that.

Reply #67 from JoeUser Forums Top

1. They build churches that boggle the mind in beauty and architecture.

The old ones.  The new ones are a testament to the new idea of liturgy being fellowship.  I like the antiques, but not to pray in.  I much prefer the new ones where the alter is in the middle of the congregation.

Reply #68 from JoeUser Forums Top

[I have, on second thought, decided to censor myself]

That is always your perogative, but you know I do not mind any comment of yours. 

Thanks for visiting.  Please dont stay away.

Reply #69 from JoeUser Forums Top
~~I still defend Catholics because when people talk about them they are talking about my grandma and my whole family. It does bother me when people bash Catholics. I guess that's the whole once a Catholic always a Catholic thing coming out.~~

Wow, locomama, my thoughts exactly. I don't agree with every thing the Catholic church teaches and expresses (I don't even go to church as regularly as I used to), but I still find alot of beauty (yes, beauty) in it...and I am not even speaking of the actual church...
I'm speaking of silent and soulful prayer I saw growing up, of candles being lit in prayer or honor, of the Virgen de Guadalupe my family is endeared of, of humility, and of a simple, but pure love for God.
Reply #70 from JoeUser Forums Top

I'm speaking of silent and soulful prayer I saw growing up, of candles being lit in prayer or honor, of the Virgen de Guadalupe my family is endeared of, of humility, and of a simple, but pure love for God.

You do sound like my wife. As a practicing one, I am not here to convert or condemn.  Just to practice in peace.

Reply #71 from JoeUser Forums Top

Wow, locomama, my thoughts exactly.

Just as an aside.  Thank you both for my sister on her birthday!

Reply #72 from JoeUser Forums Top
Just found this site and haven't read all the replys but from a Christian point of view (non denominational) I would have to say that I believe if you want a Godly marriage or one that will stand the test of time....you need to consult the one who gave us the institution to begin with. Most people go into marriage without prayer...without consulting God to begin with. Then they wonder what went wrong. Those around me that have a strong faith with God in the center of their lives have the best marriages and families. Look around and you will see this. I think it's because they are living for God together and not for themselves. They are not self centered but God centered. They have a common goal...to follow God and try to be like he would want them to be.

I don't believe in the Catholic way of anulling marriages unless it falls into the category of adultery. Then I would agree because Jesus said there were two ways out of marriage....adultery or death.

Reply #73 from JoeUser Forums Top
Me Again, I just had to respond to the Doc.....James was a Jew. Sorry to break the news to you on this. Also all the NT writers were.....gasp!!! Jews. They were not Catholics as you've been taught.

Also you are right on one thing, the NT beginning church did not have the NT but they did have the OT and the eyewittness accounts of the Apostles and others. The first church service saw 3000 souls get saved all on OT scriptures and the resurrection of Christ. That's the gospel. Before long tho the written word was put together (by these Jews) and by AD 90 the bible was fully written. That's for our benefit so we can't look God in they eye on Judgment Day and say.....I didn't know. Give me another chance. Life is sooooooooo short and eternity is soooooooo long. He's been very patient with us.
Reply #74 from JoeUser Forums Top
if you want a Godly marriage or one that will stand the test of time....you need to consult the one who gave us the institution to begin with.


what about all the millions of marriages entered into before the institution was institutionalized? all societies--christian or otherwise--seem to have a state analogous to western marriage. i'd be willing to bet cultures where marriages are arranged and the partners have no say in the matter because they serve primarily to establish or strengthen clan or tribal bonds are no more fragile than modern american marriages.
Reply #75 from JoeUser Forums Top

....you need to consult the one who gave us the institution to begin with. Most people go into marriage without prayer...without consulting God to begin with.

While not exactly what you advocate, before you can get married in the Catholic Church, you do have to go into a 'class' with Married couples so they can lead you through the spiritual and material aspects of what you are about to embark upon.  There is a lot of prayer involed.  Now, that does not mean you cant just 'go through the motions', but at least they are trying to prepare you both materially and spiritually for the sacrament.