Catholic Misconceptions

Please!  When it come to Catholocism, debate me on the beliefs, not the ignorance!

Doc Catholics take big hits because they left so much of the pagan offices and rituals in the faith. But it was the only way to make Christianity THE religion in Rome and therefore the world at the time. Caesar wouldn't have Christianity without the "rank" structure he formed in his previous pagan religion....so I think Christians at the time accepted what they could get......

Sorry, I find it so fascinating.

So I have been to churches who teach Catholics aren't Christians because they pray to idols and think Mary was sinless, add to scripture, and on and on...you wouldn't believe some of the things...but what I believe is this....there are Catholic Christians and I know a few! Each person in every Christian denomination has to have an INDIVIDUAL relationship with Christ and believe Jesus is God, came died and rose from the grave. Ya know?

So there are people in every Christian denomination who believe that, and some who don't....

All that to say...Catholics take big hits and most of them aren't well informed.

I don't have a problem at all with annulment. I don't know why people get their undies in a bunch over it.

Meh, a Catholic priest blessed my child against my will. I didn't like that much.

Catholicism is an interesting religion. I'm glad it's a good fit for you and is something you can whole-heartedly believe in.

As far as annulment goes, that's a religious thing, not a legal thing (unless I misunderstand), so I don't see how anyone could be upset and say it makes it like a marriage didn't exist.

Well you asked to let you know when you are wrong. If you were talking about me calling Catholocism a cult, I did not. Someone said they felt Mormonism and Christian Science were cults based on something and then I replied with "Well....maybe....but along the same lines...couldnt catholocism be considered a cult as well?" I never directly said it was a cult; as I dont believe it is. I just believe that many of the things it practices are things that are not practiced as such in the Bible.

All that to say...Catholics take big hits and most of them aren't well informed.

Catholics are like Jews in that respect.  Once a Catholic, always a Catholic.  SO most 'Catholics' are either C&E or just plain non practicing.  And sadly, most are very ill informed.

But to judge the religion based upon them would be to Judge Lutherans based upon Jeffrrey Dahmer.  And that just is not cool in either case.

I will tell you tho that the Catholic church you talk about earlier in your response is not the Catholic Church today (altho many Catholics dont even know that).  Today, Catholics are a lot more liberal in their beleifs, and way more tolerant of other denominations than most other Christian Religions.  And they have stripped the 'mystique' off of the rites and all are easy to understand and comprehend if anyone wants to take the time to do it.

That does not mean Catholicism is for everyone.  But for those who learn about it and embrace it, it is right for them.  Most of the most devout Catholics are not cradle catholics, but those who have converted.  Why?  because in order to convert, they have to learn about their religion.  Cradle Catholics have no such condition.  It is like Native US Citizens, and Naturalized US Citizens.  Guess who knows more about American History?

Meh, a Catholic priest blessed my child against my will. I didn't like that much. Catholicism is an interesting religion. I'm glad it's a good fit for you and is something you can whole-heartedly believe in. As far as annulment goes, that's a religious thing, not a legal thing (unless I misunderstand), so I don't see how anyone could be upset and say it makes it like a marriage didn't exist.

I got to ask, How?  HOw did a Priest bless your child against your will?  Just Curious.

And you are exactly right abouut Annulment.  So I really dont see why anyone would care.  If you are not catholic, it does not affect you.  If you are Catholic and dont like it, you will not burn at the stake if you never get one.

Well....maybe....but along the same lines...couldnt catholocism be considered a cult as well?" I never directly said it was a cult; as I dont believe it is. I just believe that many of the things it practices are things that are not practiced as such in the Bible.

Along the same lines.  Political double talk for saying "If I had said" crap.

But I will leave you with this thought.  How does it feel to now know that a Cult Wrote your precious Bible?  The thing you worship so much?

As a Catholic, we dont worship the Bible.  We read it as a book of philosophy.  I think I remember something about Worshipping Idols and such.  Seems the some people dont like Mary, the Mother of Jesus, but put the Bible on a higher pedestal than the actual teachings of Jesus himself. 

That is Idol worship in my book. You are welcome to it.

As a Catholic, we dont worship the Bible. We read it as a book of philosophy. I think I remember something about Worshipping Idols and such. Seems the Holy Rollers dont like Mary, the Mother of Jesus, but put the Bible on a higher pedestal than the actual teachings of Jesus himself.

Because if I was to focus on only what God said in the Bible...I would be taking out a bunch of stuff. God taught many things in parables...that in and of itself is invaluable. Plus the people he chose had specific lives and backgrounds and futures based on the choices that they made. The Bible is filled with a wealth of knowledge for all to understand and all to read. The teachings of Christ are found IN IT, not just specific parts. I dont worship the Bible...but I hold it to a very high regard because everything in there is what I need to know. I dont need to make up extra stuff based on what I think he might have wanted me to do. The Bible is the only reference I need. Catholocism does many.....interesting things that arent mentioned in the Bible: infant baptism, stations of the cross, all the sacraments, annulments...etc the list goes on. I guess the church I goes to just follows the Bible and the teachings inside of it and doesnt have a desire to poof stuff up out of thin air to justify whatever reasoning it makes up.

The Bible is a weapon and a shield. I use it and gain knowledge from it to empower myself. My church wants me to read the words and teachings of Christ and everything in the Bible so that I may grow from it and Im encouraged to bring it to service so that I may look at the words of Christ as I grow in faith.....not as I sit through 40 specifically designed parts of a mass.

Catholic service:
1. one hymn.....3 - 4 verses.
2. hi, how are you...its nice.
3. reading.
4. break for a psalm reading
5. reading
6. alleluia.
7. Gospel
8. sermon
9. prayers
10. silent prayer for about 15 seconds
11. recieve eucharist
12. pray over eucharist while everyone is kneeling
13. stand and say the lords prayer
14 pray over the eurcharist some more and it now has become the real thing the body and blood....not symbols...but the actual flesh and blood of christ.
15. serve communion
16. come back and kneel and pray (if you want) while everyone else gets communion only given by a priest or someone designated by him.
17. put the eucharist away in the tabernacle (Hi god, how are you in there?)
18. pray some more.
19. stand up and sing a song.
20. leave

And as you know...thats leaving out many parts of the mass

Other services by churches like the Baptist and Pentacostals:
1. Praise and worship, in song, to God all mighty for 30- 45 minutes.
2. introduction...go over any notes from the pamphlet.
3. asking for prayer for members of the congragation.
4. praying together as a church body for those in our congrigation that need prayer and uplifting.
5. song by someone in the church that wants to sing on their own will.
6. sermon and interaction with the church body as we focus on one teaching of christ or one concept and how the Bible teaches us to work with it, or any other topic relating to God....using the Bible as a reference.
7. More songs.
8. communion and tithes for those who wish to recieve and give back what God has chosen to give them.
9. More praise and worship
10. thats it, yer done....Go and learn in Christ as a church body in small group discussions or Bible studies...focusing on the word of God, if you want.

Many churches focus on God and his teachings...and others put more focus on what seems like rituals and doing stuff that is not taught in the Bible. Thats where I have the problem.

Many churches focus on God and his teachings...and others put more focus on what seems like rituals and doing stuff that is not taught in the Bible. Thats where I have the problem.

Damn, you still refuse to educate yourself and instead wallow in your ignorance. First, your 20 steps are wrong.  Not to say there are not a lot of parts to a Catholic mass, but it is apparent you don't know what they are.

Second, it is the same Catholics you hate so much that wrote the New Testament.  Have you ever heard of the Gospel of James?  Probably not.  It was an editorial decision on their part not to include it.

Let me give you another clue.  Guess what bible the Christians on the early church used?

Give up?

NONE!  Because it had not been written yet!  So you see, your very hypocrisy of "everything you need to know is in the bible" is just plain stupid!  Otherwise, there would be no Christian religion since Jesus did not write the bible.  Neither did God, and it is only that he inspired it through Catholics!

So the whole Catholic religion is based upon the life and times of Jesus Christ (with some pageantry and mystery put in for the pagans of ancient times), NOT ON THE BIBLE.

So worship your precious bible.  I can laugh at all the holier than thou people who condemn Catholics to hell, knowing that their beliefs, fragile as they are, were written by Catholics!

Papists are evil, and that is that. Every year here in Britain we celebrate Bonfire Night on Nov 5. This is to mark the day when an evil Catholic insurgency group tried to blow up the divinely appointed protestant monarch James I, and the subsequent destruction of the plot.

Catholics are decadent idolaters, and they deserve scorn by the grace of England and St George!

Ziggy, it's obvious that catholicism didn't 'work' for you. And your new religion seems to. So why not just be happy with what you have now, and leave the hate and resentment behind. Wrap it up in a nice little bundle and drop it in the trash can. I'm sure you'll feel a burden lifted if you do.

As far as annulment goes, that's a religious thing, not a legal thing (unless I misunderstand),

Yes, there is a secular annulment legal "thing." It's when a court vacates a marriage, making it as if it never happened. Try googling: legal annulment.

In a Christian context, remarriage after divorce is, in general, considered adultery (something most denominations ignore) -- hence the need for annulment of the religious variety.

(And, yes, it's more complex than that, but I don't feel like writing a long-winded, scripture referenced screed when that's good enough for this convo. )

Seems the Holy Rollers dont like Mary, the Mother of Jesus, but put the Bible on a higher pedestal than the actual teachings of Jesus himself.

I can laugh at all the holy rollers who condemn Catholics to hell, knowing that their beliefs, fragile as they are, were written by Catholics!

Your bigoted comments toward "holy rollers" as a group make you no better than the single bigot you are having an issue with.

As a holy roller who got thrown out of the church of my birth for confronting anti-Catholic bigotry may I request that if you have a problem with Ziggy the Asshole you confine your contempt to Ziggy the Asshole?

I could certainly start regaling you with tales of Catholic bigots who condemn all other "christians" to hell for being heathen -- even high-profile Catholics who have no qualms about taking such a stand. Would they justify sneering comments about your religion?

Call the individual bigots what they are, but make blanket condemnations and you're just another one of them yourself.


[That's the 6th draft and it's finally semi-nice. Now, good day. I wash my hands of this thread before I type something I'll regret and don't have the self control to not press "Post Comment."]

Catholics are decadent idolaters, and they deserve scorn by the grace of England and St George!

Yea, yea, yea.  At least we dont worship the king of england.

I'm sure you'll feel a burden lifted if you do.

Saner heads prevail!

Your bigoted comments toward "holy rollers" as a group make you no better than the single bigot you are having an issue with.

Point taken and edited.

put the eucharist away in the tabernacle (Hi god, how are you in there?)

Little "g" noted.

1. Praise and worship, in song, to God all mighty for 30- 45 minutes.

You mock them and then exalt yourself -- yes yourself, not God. Do you really think you're doing God a favor by insulting others in His name?

You're no better than the Pharisee who loudly and publicly prayed (for the crowd's benefit) "Thank you that I'm not like him."

Jesus said if you bring the truth and it isn't received to stamp even the dust of the place off your feet and leave them. If you think you are so right, why don't you listen to the Master and leave "the blind to follow the blind?" At least stop trying to show everyone how good and right you are, stop blowing your horn before you in the street, because such behavior isn't about you being right with God, but you trying to elevate yourself before men.

You're the kind of "bible based" Christian that gives us all a bad name and leads to the unfortunate opinions such as those expressed by Doc G.

Matthew 6:1,16-18 NEB Jesus said, 'Be careful not to make a show of your religion before men; if you do, no reward awaits you in your Father's house in heaven. 'Again, when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; they love to say their prayers standing up in synagogue and at the street-corners, for everyone to see them. I tell you this: they have their reward already. 'So too when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites: they make their faces unsightly so that other people may see that they are fasting. I tell you this: they have their reward already. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that men may not see that you are fasting, but only your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees what is in secret will give you your reward.' Luke 18:9-14 NEB Jesus told a parable, which was aimed at those who were sure of their own goodness and looked down on everyone else. 'Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax gatherer. The Pharisee stood up and prayed thus: "I thank you, O God, that I am not like the rest of men, greedy, dishonest, adulterous; or, for that matter, like this tax gatherer. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes on all that I get." But the other kept his distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven, but beat upon his breast, saying, " O God, have mercy on me, sinner that I am." It was this man, I tell you, and not the other, who went home acquitted of his sins. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled; and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.'

You're the kind of "bible based" Christian that gives us all a bad name and leads to the unfortunate opinions such as those expressed by Doc G.

I should not have allowed my anger to get the best of me, and I appologize for my statements  You are correct, they were as bad as his.

First, your 20 steps are wrong. Not to say there are not a lot of parts to a Catholic mass, but it is apparent you don't know what they are.

Never said they were steps...more the like the procedure they follow. Very structured and very ritualistic. I do know all of the parts of a standard Catholic mass; but like most people...I dont know the specific names given to each part of the service. And no...Im not wrong..that is the way the service goes.

Let me give you another clue. Guess what bible the Christians on the early church used?Give up?NONE! Because it had not been written yet! So you see, your very hypocrisy of "everything you need to know is in the bible" is just plain stupid! Otherwise, there would be no Christian religion since Jesus did not write the bible. Neither did God, and it is only that he inspired it through Catholics!

First off...he did not inspire it through Catholics. The Catholic church wasnt even founded until some time after his death and resurrection. The Bible was written through people inspired by Christ...God wrote through these people. If it isnt in the Bible...I cant make it up on my own based on what I think is right or based on ancient texts that are not generally accepted in the whole of the Christian faith. The Bible is the word of God...not a complimentary pamphlet to the Catholic church.

So the whole Catholic religion is based upon the life and times of Jesus Christ (with some pageantry and mystery put in for the pagans of ancient times), NOT ON THE BIBLE.So worship your precious bible. I can laugh at all the holier than thou people who condemn Catholics to hell, knowing that their beliefs, fragile as they are, were written by Catholics!

Once again...I never said I worship the Bible. Are you missing that part? Also....I never condemned Catholics to hell. And...if the Catholics did everything as you say...why did it take my leaving the church and going to a Pentacostal Church before I felt the Hand of God in my life?

While in the Catholic church, I was never told about a relationship with Christ.
I was never told to open my heart to God.
I was never taught to hand my life over and my worries to Christ.
I never knew that I needed to dedicate my life towards Christ so that his will and plan that he has set for me can be fulfilled.
I never knew that God had a plan for me which was far different from the plan I had for myself.
I always thought that I should give 10% because...thats what im supposed to do. I later then realized that God has given me an opportunity to give back a portion of what he has allowed me to recieve and that 10% is just what 'tithe' means. I started trusting, praying and giving more for each time I recieved more pay and the more I gave, the more I was blessed in return.

I attended a Pentacostal service and I was the first person out of the service because I was scared. But...something kept drawing me back. After attending more and more...and I read the Bible and what God teaches in it; I handed my life over to Christ and only then did I feel his true presence in my life. I was uplifted and my life became something that it had never been before...complete and I knew that God had a plan for me. I started praying directly to God and started a relationship with him and asked him to enter my life, clean me up and lead me to his will and my life has never been the same since.

Now, once again...I never said it was a cult, but I said that some view it as such.

Personally...I just dont know how they can justify some of the things they do that arent taught in the Bible. There are many things that are done that I just wonder...why do they do that if its not in the Bible? Even if I was to think of the Bible merely as a reference tool...what other scriptures and teachings from God justify the various things done in the church today?

Whatever floats your boat, goat, just don't knock others for their personal preferences. All paths to God are valid, and yours is no better than any other's.

Exactly.  And Catholics actually teach that now, altho they did not in years past.

Never said they were steps...more the like the procedure they follow. Very structured and very ritualistic. I do know all of the parts of a standard Catholic mass; but like most people...I dont know the specific names given to each part of the service. And no...Im not wrong..that is the way the service goes.

Try again.  That is not how it goes.

why did it take my leaving the church and going to a Pentacostal Church before I felt the Hand of God in my life?

Read Little Whip's response.  Get an education.

The Catholic church wasnt even founded until some time after his death and resurrection.

Uh, why dont you check out the Papal Succession.  Who was the first pope?  What did Jesus say? Some time?  Would that be in Days or minutes?

Wow....no WONDER there was a Protestant revolution.

Do we have to relive it here?

Look the only thing that matters in Christianity is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Period.

All the other things aren't going to cost you salvation. They are just something Satan uses to keep us all fighting amongst ourselves. Because (gasp) if we were united he would actually have to WORK for his souls...

Dr.Guy:

I got to ask, How? HOw did a Priest bless your child against your will? Just Curious.

My mother-in-law (and her entire family) is Catholic, and when my youngest was still an infant we spent the weekend with my in-laws. On Sunday morning, out of respect for them, we attended services with them.

After services were over, we were sitting in the pew, waiting for my in-laws to be ready to leave. The priest was talking to my m-i-l and then turns to me (I'm holding the baby) and he begins doing the whole blessing thing.

Now, you can argue that I could have just said I didn't want him to do it, but that would have been incredibly rude and a poor reflection on my m-i-l, so I just sat there in disbelief. He didn't ask me if he could or if I wanted him to...he just did it.

It really bothered me. I felt violated.

So I really dont see why anyone would care. If you are not catholic, it does not affect you.

Exactly.

Gene:

Yes, there is a secular annulment legal "thing." It's when a court vacates a marriage, making it as if it never happened. Try googling: legal annulment.

Heh, like what Britney Spears did?

In a Christian context, remarriage after divorce is, in general, considered adultery (something most denominations ignore) -- hence the need for annulment of the religious variety. (And, yes, it's more complex than that, but I don't feel like writing a long-winded, scripture referenced screed when that's good enough for this convo.

I'm familiar with the Scripture that discusses divorce (Matthew 4:31 touches this very topic), but I'm not sure where the authority for annulment comes from. Could you enlighten me?

...why do they do that if its not in the Bible?

Let me get this straight.....are you Marcie's boyfriend?

If not please disregard.

If so, your Pentecostal and shacking up????? Well shacking up is NOT in the Bible. I wonder how many tongues your church would speak in if they knew about that.