When is Suicide permissible?

Just a question ok?

from JoeUser Forums
I have often wondered when Is suicide permissible, what circumstances must you be in?

Is it a selfish or a selfless act?

Does it take strength to kill yourself or some kind of inherent weakness>

Do you take loved ones in consideration and allow that to override suicidal thoughts?

Do you "hang in there as long as you can" to please a loved one?

disclaimer FOR THE INCREDIBLY STUPID, mm HAS NO PLANS TO HURT HIMSELF! SO PLEASE SPARE ME. i ASKED QUESTIONS and want answers to the questions I asked.
life
11,156 views 57 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

There is no single answer.  It can be selfish, it can be noble.  It can be done at the right time, or the wrong time.  it depends upon the situation.

The Suicide that Locamama wrote about was for all the wrong reasons at the wrong time and for selfish reasons. 

Sorry I dont have an ABC rule for you.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Monday mornings. Before coffee.
Fences - Organize your desktop icons today!
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
2 by UBoB
Friday, October 28, 2005


Monday mornings. Before coffee.


hahahahahahah thanx.. lolololo
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
1 by Dr. Guy
Friday, October 28, 2005


you must have opinions doc, not looking for any "hard fast rules" just some opinions on the questions I asked.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Do you "hang in there as long as you can" to please a loved one?


I don't know how to respond to this one without seeming harsh, but I firmly believe that there are a lot of troubled people out there who stay alive because they are nobly trying to please their loved ones, yet cause a lifetime of pain, remorse and guilt that they might have been better off to have stuck to their original intentions. There are some people who want to get better, and there are others who try to make their loved ones suffer as much as they are suffering...



Is it a selfish or a selfless act?


I think that people who see it as being wholy selfish haven't really been there, desperately trying to make it though another day. I guess this sounds very contradicting to the above statement, but there are people who commit suicide for a variety of reasons. I often wonder about the people I used to know who did it, and think about the things they were going through back then. Time often makes the things that were once so big and important fade away. I wonder what they could've done with their lives if they were able to understand that.

As far as suicide being permissible... isn't it far easier to accept a person's decision if they are in extreme physical pain and suffering than mental anguish? How can that be measured? And who's to say that all mental suffering can be cured with a wonder drug, or a good talk or two with a counsellor who has 30 other clients?
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Speaking as one weak (or brave and stupid) enough to have attempted suicide a couple times, I would have to say there is no definate line in the sand you have to cross to be able to justify killing yourself. Everyone's experience is different- some people endure terrible hardships and can live out happy, satisfying lives anyway, whereas others (like me) fall at the first hurdle, and can hardly endure getting out of bed before 12 noon.

Suicide, in my opinion, is an entirely selfish act. I can't think of any examples where it would be selfless- even if it were in the case of someone who requires a lot of care from their loved ones, I truly believe that inspite of all the stress and difficulty of caring for the person, they would much rather do all this, and have the person around, than have that person kill themselves and save them the bother, to put it crudely. I know that I am a very difficult person to be around when I am depressed and suicidal, but my friends have stuck by me, and showed such love for me, that I know killing myself would hurt them too much. It would be the most selfish act I could commit- and as long as my desire not to hurt my friends outweighs my need for everything to just stop- I won't kill myself. I hope.

As for the strength/weakness thing, I can't decide. When I tried to kill myself I was terrified, and did it anyway (which is a popular definition of courage, courage commonly regarded as a strength). But suicide is also an admission of weakness- its the loudest way of saying- I cannot take it anymore, I am giving up. I suppose the act is brave, in a twisted sort of way, but what it represents is a confession of absolute weakness, absolute inadequacy- an inability to cope with the reality and difficulty of living.

I think I answered the last two questions in the above.

Interesting thoughts MM, I hope my reply didn't suck too much.

Thankyou for the comments on my blog. I do appreciate them, although I never know how to reply.

Dyl xx
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

I gave one.  The lady who hanged herself was not the right time.  Depression is not the right reason.

My religion tells me there is no right time, but I dont buy that.  I wont do it, but I do not condemn the terminally ill for choosing it.  How do you know?  Many people die while undergoing curative treatments.  They still have hope.  Others go veg before they can make the decision.

The right time is when you can no longer stand to live due to pain, are in a terminal condition, and your spouse and loved ones agree there is no hope, only pain and agony.

There are no hard fast rules!

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
When you can't take any more physical pain and your physicians can't help you any more. When you feel that your life has no quality, when you can't do simple things like feed yourself, when you're incontinent....when you feel that you have become a burden to those around you and you see that you are causing them pain.

Or, when you see yourself heading for all of the above, if, say you've been given a diagnosis of a disease that will mean a horribly painful death preceeded by a lot of debilitation. That's when I think it's acceptable.

I reserve the right to die with dignity, on my terms.....not on the terms of some disease that I have no control over.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
My Father, who died from cancer, fought it as long as he could. Finally, after a gruelling 18 months the pain was too much. Although he never came right out and said he was ending his life, what he did had the same result. He stopped all medications and treatments, except pain medication. Then he gave his doctor a D.N.R. order. When he eventually departed this life he had a calm, satisfied look on his face. He was the bravest man I knew.

Yes, I think sometimes it is permissible.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
He stopped all medications and treatments, except pain medication. Then he gave his doctor a D.N.R. order. When he eventually departed this life he had a calm, satisfied look on his face.


That's exactly what I'm talking about. And I'm sorry for your loss.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good article Elie. I think suicide should be permissible when ones life is too hard to bear(sp.?) by that persons standards. It shouldn't be judged by others. If one is in so much pain and there is no way out of it than it should be up to that person what the next step should be. Is it a selfish decision, you betcha, as I think it should be. I have had experience with a loved one choosing suicide and it sure as hell hurts that they chose this route but I also have come to know there wasn't anything I could have done to prevent it,this took a while to get into my thick head.
When my disease gets to a point whre there is more pain than I can bear, I plan on fighting until there is no fight left in me, than finding more strength to fight some more. But I will not live a life as a shell. I will know when my time is up and than I will take the step necessary with help. :}
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Personally, I believe that if I were to commit suicide it would be selfishly. My religion also says that suicide is the wrong thing to do, but who am I to judge? It is interesting that people have different opinions of what suicide is. Vikings thought that going into battle alone and knowing you were dying for a just cause to be the only true hero. Some think that refusing to eat, drink, use medications, etc. is suicide, while others think that is just the way things should happen. I dunno, sorry I can't give you an answer. Hope this helps.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Did you see Million Dollar Baby? I don't want to ruin the ending if you haven't but it's definately thought provoking. Rent it if you haven't seen it yet.

I do think that suicide would be really hard on your surviving family members. I think their would be a lot of recrimination of what could I have done to prevent this? Have you ever heard Adam's Song by Blink 182? There's a line in it. "Please tell mom it's not her fault". It just makes me so sad to hear that.

I also think other cultures have different view points of suicide. The suicide rate in China is very high. It seems like their are lots of older people who don't want to be a burden on their families who kill themselves.

On a totally off the wall funny note - I was watching a comedian on HBO who said she doesn't think suicide should be illegal. She thinks in some cases it should be mandatory.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

When he eventually departed this life he had a calm, satisfied look on his face. He was the bravest man I knew.

I wish my grandfather had been as wise.

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: NickyGPosted: Friday, October 28, 2005


now your answers are what I was looking for, not permission or anything like it, just your opinions, wondewrful and thank you.

MM
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: NickyGPosted: Friday, October 28, 2005


now your answers are what I was looking for, not permission or anything like it, just your opinions, wondewrful and thank you.

MM
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
#6 by DylanZimmerman
Friday, October 28, 2005


dyl all I am looking for is some insight into how people feel about this subject, there is NO RIGHT OR WRONG answer.

thanx dyl.


xoxoxo back at ya kiddo.

mm
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
7 by Dr. Guy
Friday, October 28, 2005


thats all I wanted doc, some discussion, some food for thought.

thanx,

elie
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
#8 by dharmagrl
Friday, October 28, 2005


reserve the right to die with dignity, on my terms.....not on the terms of some disease that I have no control over.


exactly D. my thoughts on this are already known, I will not die rotting.


mm
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
#9 by UBoB
Friday, October 28, 2005




.
Yes, I think sometimes it is permissible.


me too, there is a point when it's all usless hanging on anymore and it's time to let go and let GOD>.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
11 by Gimpyone
Friday, October 28, 2005


I see that eye is still giving you trouble michele{ large print from you , dead give away}

We have talked about this ever since micheal, enough said.

hey chele?? I love you!
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
#12 by TARSIER
Friday, October 28, 2005


Personally, I believe that if I were to commit suicide it would be selfishly. My religion also says that suicide is the wrong thing to do, but who am I to judge? It is interesting that people have different opinions of what suicide is. Vikings thought that going into battle alone and knowing you were dying for a just cause to be the only true hero. Some think that refusing to eat, drink, use medications, etc. is suicide, while others think that is just the way things should happen. I dunno, sorry I can't give you an answer. Hope this helps.


you did answer, I do not know is an answer,

thank you.

MM
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
13 by Locamama
Friday, October 28, 2005


Did you see Million Dollar Baby? I don't want to ruin the ending if you haven't but it's definately thought provoking. Rent it if you haven't seen it yet.


have not seen it and thank you for not ruining ending.
MM

Also I just want views and opinions loca.

thank you.

MM
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Next Thursday, between the hours of 8:00 and 11:00 p.m. Remember city noise ordinances, so please, don't use a gun.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
24 by Spc Nobody Special
Friday, October 28, 2005


Next Thursday, between the hours of 8:00 and 11:00 p.m. Remember city noise ordinances, so please, don't use a gun.


not even with a mark iv.. silencer?