Rips - A discussion

Over recent months, I have noticed an alarming rise in copyright theft amongst the skinning community. It only takes a quick look through this very message board to find numerous reports of unauthorised modification and redistribution of WindowBlinds skins, icons and wallpapers.

It's really encouraging to see that skinning is becoming an everyday part of computer use and, as Frogboy tells us time and time again, skinning is constantly on the rise. It seems however that this public exposure has a downside. As more people discover skinning, so the 'ripping' trend continues to grow.

I have to admit that a large factor in my decision to stop skinning was the fact that I had little or no control over the use of my work once it had been released to the public. I got tired of finding threads on various boards around the net where people were simultaniously bad-mouthing me while ripping my skins and passing them off as their own. I'm sure I'm not alone.

So what can we as skinners do about copyright theft? There has to come a point when we can no longer chase those who steal our work, as the situation grows beyond our capacity to monitor it. It's obvious that much of the problem stems from a lack of education and information on the subject, as it's a commonly held misconception that anything you find on the Internet is free to use as you wish. We obviously need to find a way to spread the message that copyright theft is a crime. It's common sense that stealing physical property is theft, so why not digital property?

Is there any way for us to actively protect our work? Digital watermarking goes some way toward settling disputes over ownership, but such techniques hardly lend themselves to skins which often contain large numbers of tiny images.

I'd like to hear any ideas you have on the issue, and perhaps we can start to find a way out of this mess before it truly gets out of hand.
14,036 views 56 replies
Reply #1 Top
we have same problem grayhaze and we feel we can not do anything, I would also like to hear real solutions
We feel the same way
Reply #2 Top
As grayhaze mentions the watermark.....is there no way of 'stamping/branding' it so to speak which cannot be removed without losing a great deal of the skin and leaving it useless?
Reply #3 Top
Unless we want to go the way of single encrypted files that also take advantage of Palladium or something, I think it's largely a lost cause. (I'm not saying give up though)

My concern isn't mainly with people who merely distribute a work and not give credit. It's with people who claim other people's work is their own.
Reply #4 Top
You have right grayhaze, but I feel that there is nothing we can do about it, at least now. The problem is difficult, but we don't give up, we will try and who knows we may find some solution.

Good thread!
Reply #5 Top
So why don't walls get ripped? to obvious maybe?
Reply #6 Top
Oh, I've seen quite a few ripped walls. The difference between Skins and Walls is that often people claim the skin is their work, while people simply don't bother giving credits for the walls... they just want to share a cool wall.

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Reply #7 Top
The fact is, your work is copyrighted when you post it. You could go further and register your copyright by mailing it to the Library of Congress (along with the appropriate form and a check for $30) and wait about 8 months for the official ©number. (You can include numerous works under a single copyright submission, as a collection)

I think it might help if we made a more visible "terms of use" statement here and at all skinning sites. Have a statement visible right on each page stating that "All posted works on this site are copyrighted and may not be modified or redistributed without written permission... etc"

I don't really notice it being any worse than it was before, but every case is aggravating.
Reply #8 Top
Dark Mist - watermarks are expensive. I looked into using them for a photography exhibit and found that after you use up the free ones that come with the registration they get extremely expensive.
Reply #9 Top
Oh right i didn't realise. Maybe the protection you need is sadly gonna have to be paid for, not right but thats justice for you
Reply #10 Top
I think making a well publicized example of one 'ripper' might go a long way. Pick a rendom ripper and publically (CNN, Wired, etc....) rip them a new a$$hole, As this would need to be done through the courts, it would cost, but may have a positive effect. On the other hand, it may have the opposite effect - I'll show them, etc...

Just a thought.

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Reply #11 Top
If you can stop warez, then you can stop rips.
Reply #12 Top
I agree with DavidK. A good start would be a visible "terms of use". There is nothing that stands out to warn there are Copyright issues involvedon this site.
Reply #13 Top
I think the problem is this: Have you ever heard of anyone being sued for stealing a skin or image?, I mean actually held accountable for their actions in a court of law? I don't think I have. And how do you go about sueing some guy in Russia or china? They have different standards and different laws, and the costs would be prohibitive.

Drug dealers and rapists get away with pitiful "slap on the wrist" sentences, so where is the deterrent to ripping a few skins or walls?

If anyone knows of a ripper being caught and tried and made to compensate his victim, I would love to hear about it, if only to make me feel better!
Reply #14 Top
You have a point, paxx

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Reply #15 Top
Paxx? I don't see a post by Patric............
Reply #16 Top
The solution looks pretty simple to me, but I don't know how hard it is to atieve. The last time we have seen 2 or 3 sites that had massed ripped stuff (about 50 skins!!!) If we, or wincustomize could put a note in the zip file like: this art belongs on wincustomize, made by...., copyright C2003.
That would make it verry hard to get evry zip unzipped, delete the note, rezip it again not?
and a watermark is a great idea too for walls.
Reply #17 Top
All the contents of skins could be placed into an encrypted file instead of just a bunch of loose bmp files... might help a little.
Reply #18 Top
You must realise that we are quite deep into things. A lot of people outside think "what's all the fuzz about?". To them, where bickering about insignificant details.

So the only solution is to educate people. Let them know that blood, sweat and tears go into this, that we take it serious and that by uploading it somewhere does not mean that it's "public domain" as the ignorant may claim.
Reply #19 Top
Styl skinner : I see a problem in this method : Ports in good quality would never be possible with this...
You would have to ask the original author for the graphics before You have done anything and I doubt many authors would give their original graphics away before having seen anything...

For the whole problem of ripping : I think the attitude of the younger people reflects the society we live in nowadays. As skinning becomes more popular more problems arrise like in 'real-life' society. Skinning is no island anymore...

I hope this doesn't sound complete crappy, as english is not my origin language.

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Reply #20 Top
I have a small question, if I may..

What amounts to ripping? Plagiarising? Or is unauthorised reproduction counted as ripping too?
Reply #21 Top
actually, if SkinStudio compressed a skin/theme pack or there was a utility that had a propriety compressions algorithm, which also had encryption, that was run against a skin before posting. You could in fact control the use of the skin better, also with this MPC-ob-server the steps for controlling pirate products is well on it/s path to reality...

When your computer boots up the MPC server/service loads. connects to SD checks against your configured personal installation/registration (local) against SD's registered owners database and if it comes back incorrect it refuses to load and you are told to call support or email them. Pirate is stuck and can not use products, or open skins to get the graphics out...

Watermarking software is an option on the graphics level, you could pay for the service, but do not really have to. Watermark you artwork and then back up copy's to your CD-RW, both marked and unmarked, the date stamp will be applied to the burned CD files and can not be changed so it is solid proof of creation date. One without mark same date and minutes apart from the one with mark on CD would be a good record of ownership....

Kind of like this computer chip I had put into Boomer for proof of ownership. If he ever gets loose and anyone attempts to claim him. All that needs be done to prove he is mine is to pass a scanner over his neck and all of his and my personal information pops up on the monitor. neat:)

as long as it stays for use with ONLY animals

use of the (tm) and (c) for un registered marks is sufficient, but you have to have indisputable proof, which the cd method would pretty much solve for you...

just some thoughts of possibilities....

when I get up later Ill go ahead and post a series of links to some solid watermark software that does not cost an arm and a leg and could be used in such a process...



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Reply #22 Top
@shu, that is exactly a part of what ripping is...

theft...

Skins and such are bad enough, but digital photography, man, anyone making or attempting to make a living with that on the web has some serious need of controlling distrabution of work for sure....

As DavidK states, it is extreamly expensive when you work with a registration service to register your watermark and work...

Maybe if some company deeply involved could come up with a value added feature to subscrupyion membership which a person could purchase as an addon, this could be addressed at least, for those of WinC? hint hint , wink wink

maybe if they had an addiliation program? where numbers registed lower the over all provce for everyone under a package plan...

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Reply #23 Top
affiliation typing in bed in the dark hasn'f seemed to improve my typing



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Reply #24 Top


Maybe the hint will be taken IPlural.

But what action can one take against rippers? Like I have this wall https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=5905 uploaded at WC. And just a month back, I saw it at a guy's PC (we have a common friend). It has my name and everything but I didn't send it to him, and neither did my friend. I asked him if he had got this from WC, and he replied in the -ve. He showed me a CD (u know the kind that come with computer magazines) which had that wall.

I am all for free art, but atleast I should've been informed...
Reply #25 Top
well, that would depend really. as a single person, you are pretty limited, though here at WinC they do take an active part in helping you out as they do throughout the skining community at large. There could be a purge I would guess, where a number of sites and authors band together one month a year and work on cleaning up as much of it as they can find on the net, power in numbers kind of thing, maybe?


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