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pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc #3

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pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc #3

from Demigod Forums

Update 5/25/2017

  • This thread is all done.  I've lost interest in jibba jibbing here, but its been fun.  Thanks for all the memories.  
  • I am streaming from time to time on twitch - generally just when I'm trying hard in ranked though.  If interested, you can check that out here:  https://www.twitch.tv/pacovdumptruck
 

Well, I started a thread back in Dec 2011 that’s seen a lot of activity (some 922,000 views over the course of a few years apparently...).  That thread had a good deal of tips/strategies/discussions about League of Legends from new and old players alike.  You can find the previous thread (now archived) here:  https://forums.joeuser.com/413863.  I think its time to start fresh with a new thread.

What’s this thread all about?
For those that followed the previous thread, the type of content you see here will be fairly consistent to what you are used to.  Please consider this a place to discuss LoL related content as you like.  I'll do the same and treat the thread as a blog as well where I talk about what’s going on with me in LoL.  Feel free to jump in and join the discussion if you like.

Quick background on me
I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011, I started getting heavily involved in League of Legends, and folks from the community were kind enough to help me figure things out.  I play LoL most nights, stream, make videos and it’s my main gaming interest.

Some links 

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Reply #1952 from Demigod Forums Top

Diamond 4 attained :D

Got to play brand both games and did well despite a leblanc giving me a run for my money in the second game. Well the curse is over! 

TouchTasks - Access tasks with ease on Windows touchscreens.
Reply #1953 from Demigod Forums Top

Been digging through riotLytes ask.fm page.  Came across this:

 

Q:Question for the upcoming Team Builder Draft: Since the duo queue partners must cover 3 distinct roles, does this mean that queuing up as a duo bot isn't possible? I feel like being able to bot lane with your friend guaranteed would be a nice feature..
 
A:This is a great question, and something we need to keep an eye on. Some players and Rioters have suggested that we allow "Duo Bot Queue" as an option, but make it obvious to players that this might have longer queue times. I don't think we can do this type of feature for launch, but the whole concept of "premade synergies" is interesting.
 
So, I'm guessing this sort of thing won't be coming then - and if it goes to ranked team builder at some point, then those duo queue folks will have to roll the dice like everyone else... which I kind of dig.  There's still certainly some advantage in duoing for ranked play - they just won't be able to necessarily get to play exactly what they want.  
 
 
Reply #1954 from Demigod Forums Top

Also this...

Q:Is the ranked TB comming out in the ranked season 5 or is it first comming out in ranked season 6?
 
A:Team Builder Draft is a pretty big change to the current Champ Select experience, so we want to avoid disrupting the middle of a season with it. So, it definitely won't be in the 2015 season
 
Curious - not sure if they are both talking about teambuilder draft or teambuilder ranked.  Sounds like lyte is saying no team builder draft this season.  :(
Reply #1955 from Demigod Forums Top

And this...

Q:This isn't really a question more-so a big thank you. I have big ranked anxiety because i can't really fill that well. With what i have heard about in the new team builder draft ranked thing, it seems like i won't have to worry as much
 
A:We're really looking forward to having you try it out, and see what you think of the new Ranked experience.
 
So, are they doing both ranked draft and draft teambuilder then?  I asked him and am waiting to see if response
Reply #1956 from Stardock Forums Top

Re: Cow's Awesome Promo To Diamond IV

Awesome man!  I found it interesting that you had a Gold Digger Morgana on your team for your last game who went 4/1 at one point.  Guess everyone who doubted Pacov's idea owes him a big apology.  Not me of course.  I was a fan of the setup the whole time.

 

Re:  Teambuilder

The current Ranked champion select will be replaced with the Ranked Teambuilder they're working on.  Normal Teambuilder will remain as it is but possibly get adjusted in the future.  Lyte said that having two separate queues for Ranked is not an option but that it doesn't really matter since people can still select a Fill option.

Is that what you were asking?

Reply #1957 from Demigod Forums Top

Lyte responded to my question

Q:I am really excited about the new teambuilder experience and have been reading up on every bit of info you are sharing. I'm confused about one thing - are there 2 diff things- teambuilder draft and ranked teambuilder draft? Or is it just 1 thing. Thanks!
 
A:They are the same thing, we're calling it Team Builder Draft because it's a new draft experience, and could be applied to both Normal Draft and Ranked Solo/Duo queue experiences.
 
Oh and from what I read today from the Q/A, they have completely scrapped the "fill" option.  Whenever it launches, everyone will select 2 total roles.  Any other variant is something they will consider adding post launch.  
Reply #1958 from Demigod Forums Top

Oh nvm lyte says there is a fill option.  unranked tb draft 1st then ranked

Reply #1959 from Demigod Forums Top

 

 

Do you expect the addition of a team builder would skew the amount of players selecting roles, as well as the time it takes to find a game for ranked queues among all levels? I know in regular team builder it sometimes takes 10-15 minutes to get to a game when looking for a support or jungle.Zero Aurora

Queue times should be much better in Team Builder Draft because we're asking players to all select 2 positions, and we're introducing the "Fill" position. If we have to, we'll also incentivize playing the high demand positions.

Jeffrey Lin
Reply #1960 from Stardock Forums Top

Sounds like they're still not sure what their exact plan is.  Last I heard this was going to be THE mode (assuming there wasn't community outrage and hate for it) for Draft whether it was Ranked or Normals.  My understanding was that they were going to keep current Teambuilder as a way for people to practice banned/popular champions and get rid of Blind to help funnel people into it as the new mode of choice for Filthy Casuals.  

Don't understand why bot lane is a potential issue for them.  If you allow two choices and prioritize them, then duo queues are guaranteed to get bot lane every game if that's what they want right?

Anyway, personally I've come around to the idea of them doing this.  Less strife in champ select will be nice and people who want to play one or two roles will be really stoked.  Kinda selfish of me to worry about how badly my MMR is going to take a hit as a Support player when the new system goes live.

Reply #1961 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Thundercles, reply 1960

If you allow two choices and prioritize them, then duo queues are guaranteed to get bot lane every game if that's what they want right?
End of Thundercles's quote

As I understand it, you could guarantee you and a pal get bot lane.  But not who got which role - and as generally 1 fella is going to be a better adc or support than the other, its not ideal.  

Quoting Thundercles, reply 1960

Less strife in champ select will be nice and people who want to play one or two roles will be really stoked.  
End of Thundercles's quote

Or folks that want to fill - to me its a big win.  I think the only peeps impacted are those wanting to duo bot.  Sry if that's the boat you are in :(

 

 ALSO HOLY CRAP.. that c9 v clg game.  check it out on VOD if you missed.  

 

Reply #1962 from Stardock Forums Top
Quoting pacov, reply 1961

As I understand it, you could guarantee you and a pal get bot lane.  But not who got which role - and as generally 1 fella is going to be a better adc or support than the other, its not ideal.

End of pacov's quote

Well, if they system gave you two choices, I wouldn't think it would be hard to prioritize them so it only came into play for tie breakers.

For instance say the system grabs a Support, Jungler, and ADC and two players that both chose Top and Mid as their prefs.  Well if one made Top his priority pick and the other put Mid as his priority, then great!  If they both put Top as their pick then just make it random.  That way if Duos queued up, one could prioritize ADC and the other Support.  Voila!

 


Quoting pacov, reply 1961

Or folks that want to fill - to me its a big win.  I think the only peeps impacted are those wanting to duo bot.  Sry if that's the boat you are in :(
 
End of pacov's quote

 

I'm not the only one who's duo'd in Ranked but I would say my duoing has been far less successful than some of my friends as far as net LP gains.   With a little minor tweaking to their current system, Duo's should be able to get the role they want so it's a moot point anyway.

People who can play all roles competently will be negatively impacted since being well rounded probably helped them climb to where they are currently. That's the boat I feel I'm in. 

Being good at an unpopular role like Support is an advantage for you and I.  When this new version of Team Builder goes live, we will no longer be occasionally facing last picks who have been forced into the role and don't have a clue how to play it.  When we Support, we will now be playing other Support specialists every game.

Hopefully being able to specialize in less roles offsets that for you, but I think it might be a little naive to only see how the new system will positively impact you.  Your opponents will benefit from the changes as well.  

I'm talking LP of course.  As far as in game experience, everyone should be having a much better time except for duo's if they leave things as they are.

Reply #1963 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Thundercles, reply 1962

Well, if they system gave you two choices, I wouldn't think it would be hard to prioritize them so it only came into play for tie breakers.
End of Thundercles's quote

ah - that might be the case then.  Makes sense - I wonder if they make queue times prohibitive for this or something.  

 

I'm asking and will see if he answers:

 

Q:If I queue up with a buddy in team builder draft and we both choose adc/support as our 2 roles, will we always be able to duo bot lane lane?  Makes sense, but I'm not sure how things will work

Reply #1964 from Demigod Forums Top

More TB info

 

Will you guys make teambuilder to work like "When you find a match you cant leave it for x time" because when someone sees only 1 player there he instantly leaves even tho other players can come in just a few seconds! What do you think about it?‎  Erikos Eclipse
The Team Builder Draft experience goes from the lobby where you can invite friends and choose 2 positions straight into Champion Select, so there's no more waiting for the lobby to "fill up" before entering matchmaking. So now it's:
 
1) Invite friends into lobby.
2) Choose 2 positions each. 
3) Enter new Champion Select experience.
4) Do bans/picks.
5) Play game.
 
If you "leave" after Step 2, you will get a queue dodge penalty. This is very similar to how drafting works in League today.
 
 
Reply #1965 from Demigod Forums Top

Oo - lyte answered more of my questions.

 

Q:In team builder draft, are people consistently able to duo queue for bot lane and get it? Ex - 1 goes adc primary/support 2nd and the other support prim/adc 2nd. Or does this intentionally break up people trying to lane together? Thanks!
 
A:We currently don't have a "Premade Synergy" feature that allows Duos to reserve bot lane. The system currently asks Duo Queue players to cover at least 3 unique positions.
 
 
Q:So - no ranked team builder draft this season. Can we expect to see UNRANKED team builder draft this season?
 
A:We'd like to do a beta of Unranked Team Builder Draft sometime this year, we just don't to disrupt the current ranked season.
Reply #1966 from Demigod Forums Top
Q:This might not be your department, but how do you think Ranked Team Builder is going to affect the total average MMR of the entire community? At first glance I would think it would raise the average MMR since almost everyone will be playing their "main" roles. Or does the system work differently?
This is a very mathematical question, so pardon the nuance. Right now, because you have no control of what positions you get in Ranked Draft, you can have a "Primary" position but might be forced to play the other positions in some games. This means that your MMR is actually a weighted average of what positions you've actually played, and these weights might be different for every player depending on what positions they prefer to play. So, a Support Main might have a more accurate MMR that represents their true underlying skill level because they get Support in 90% of their matches. However, a Mid Main might have higher variance on their MMR because they only get Mid in 60% of their matches.
 
A:With Team Builder Draft, we're giving players more control over what positions they get in Ranked Draft. So, instead of having a probability of getting 1 of 5 positions, you have a probability of getting 1 of 2 specified positions so there's lower variance in the system. If you think through this math, it means that the variance of the population is going to go down, but MMRs should not increase globally on average; after all, it's a zero sum game (if you win MMR, someone is losing it). If you think through this more abstractly, players are technically not more skilled after we introduce the system, the system just has more accuracy when measuring player skill now. Over the first few weeks, players who had low variance will probably have the same MMR. Players who had high variance will most likely see moderate to large drops (or increases) in MMR and this new MMR will be a better reflection of their underlying skill levels.
Reply #1967 from Demigod Forums Top

People who can play all roles competently will be negatively impacted since being well rounded probably helped them climb to where they are currently. That's the boat I feel I'm in. 

Being good at an unpopular role like Support is an advantage for you and I.  When this new version of Team Builder goes live, we will no longer be occasionally facing last picks who have been forced into the role and don't have a clue how to play it.  When we Support, we will now be playing other Support specialists every game.

Hopefully being able to specialize in less roles offsets that for you, but I think it might be a little naive to only see how the new system will positively impact you.  Your opponents will benefit from the changes as well. 

End of quote

Since we know that it isn't being released this year, it'll be released during Preseason "at the earliest". If you avoid ranked during preseason, that means you have until January or February until you have to work with the new system. This means that you have, at least, 6 months to choose two "main" roles, and practice them. i figure that should be plenty of time to learn those roles. In addition, there are already ways to facilitate that: you can play Normal Teambuilder.

There's also other levers that Riot can use to make the system more palatable to "fillers":

  1. MMR reset or placement matches may be different this season. i generally assume that most resets benefit people with "solo lane mains", but that's not 100% certain.

  2. You may get a very slight MMR "handicap" or slightly boosted LP gains if you queue as "fill"

  3. At the very least, if you queue as "fill" you'll experience much faster queue times. If you're able to keep up a similar win rate, faster queues -> more games -> more LP. Going 1-1 generally results in a net gain of 8 LP, right? Think of it as playing Face Hunter up to Rank 5...

  4. In actual fact, "fill" isn't playing each role equally as often. Both you and pacov play mid much less than your other roles. Is that just because of Cow and me? Probably not. It also depends how many duo queues use the system. If lots of duos play, then you might see your "fill" mostly actually playing jungle/top.

  5. Some people are going to queue Support with... non-support ideas. Just because they want the shorter queue time (i've got 75 minutes to play! Not enough time to queue as mid, but support i can play...). You probably won't be facing Lemonation EVERY game. Inb4 GDM.

Reply #1968 from Stardock Forums Top
Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 1967

Since we know that it isn't being released this year, it'll be released during Preseason "at the earliest". If you avoid ranked during preseason, that means you have until January or February until you have to work with the new system. This means that you have, at least, 6 months to choose two "main" roles, and practice them. i figure that should be plenty of time to learn those roles.

End of awuffleablehedgie's quote

I'm not currently concerned about how this change will effect what League I'm in and am not planning on adjusting how I play too much for it.  My initial reaction was initially poor months ago.  Seemed like Riot was pandering to those that watch LCS or 'One Trick Pony' streamers and think "If only I could just play my main role all the time like they do.  Then I could make it to ______!"  

Now I just see Ranked Teambuilder as a positive change for the population overall and am stoked they're doing it.  I'll just continue to play what is fun for me and think that I'll be just fine next season doing that.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 1967

In actual fact, "fill" isn't playing each role equally as often. Both you and pacov play mid much less than your other roles. Is that just because of Cow and me? Probably not. It also depends how many duo queues use the system. If lots of duos play, then you might see your "fill" mostly actually playing jungle/top.

End of awuffleablehedgie's quote

It's a little cause of you and Cow and Gotnades and ShadowKunt are better Mids who enjoy playing it.  And the fact that I really enjoy going bot with Sharpie as my Support.  And the LoL Babies just want to play Leona or ARAMs nowadays so I've been playing ADC a lot.

When I'm 'stuck' with the role, I feel I have just as much a chance of carrying my team than losing the game for them.

But I do see your point, but feel that there is just too much 'diminishing returns' when it comes to specialization in this game.  Learning all roles and having a champ or two in each to play competently doesn't take much time and is very much worth putting the effort to do.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 1967

You probably won't be facing Lemonation EVERY game. Inb4 GDM.

End of awuffleablehedgie's quote

No, but whatever people's motivation for playing Support with Ranked Rolebuilder, they will be better at the role than people currently being forced into the role.  And even if they don't play the role conventionally, they will be better players who dropped in MMR so will be just as effective in their own way

What you won't have is the fifth pick "Mid or feed.  Fine, I'll go Nid Support.  You guys brought this on yourself." on the other team who then flames his team while stealing their kills.  That being a thing of the past is going to be a disadvantage for all of us who play competent Supports and embrace the spirit of the role.

Reply #1969 from Demigod Forums Top

server maintenance announced - patch going out wed morning - includes new HUD.  Per rito:

"We’re planning on rolling the HUD update over to live with patch 5.14. We’ll target non-ranked queues first to make sure nothing goes boom, then, if we’re ship-shape, add the update to ranked a few days later. "


Guessing we'll see the new hud very soon.  

Reply #1970 from Demigod Forums Top

Also, if you haven't even glanced at the new game mode items, you should take a look... its.. pretty in depth - http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/514-pbe-cycle.html - scroll WAY to the bottom and then up to find

 

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 1967

You probably won't be facing Lemonation EVERY game. Inb4 GDM.
End of awuffleablehedgie's quote

 
I do and that's why I run GDM.
 
Quoting Thundercles, reply 1968

What you won't have is the fifth pick "Mid or feed.
End of Thundercles's quote
 
We did some draft tonight and just had last pick decide they wanted to jungle also.  Which left me supporting for no one.  I rolled with it, but yeah - when shit like that ends, yay!
Reply #1971 from Stardock Forums Top

This from Lyte's Teambuilder Draft QnA:

"When selecting 2 positions, you can choose one as your Primary, and one as your Secondary. We're working on ways where if you get your Secondary position too often, we'll try to make sure you get your Primary position a few times. At this time we're not allowing players to just select 1 position, even if they understand it would have longer queue times."

I should like work for Riot or something.

Quoting pacov, reply 1965
Q:So - no ranked team builder draft this season. Can we expect to see UNRANKED team builder draft this season?

 

A:We'd like to do a beta of Unranked Team Builder Draft sometime this year, we just don't to disrupt the current ranked season.


End of pacov's quote

What's the highlight for?

Reply #1972 from Demigod Forums Top

Expect going in to be really frustrated with the new hud for your 1st game at least.  I was anyway.  Eyes so used to looking for things in certain places.  

Reply #1973 from Sins Forums Top

The new hud is bland, horribly bland.  It's terribly for quickly drawing information from.

Reply #1974 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting psychoak, reply 1973

The new hud is bland, horribly bland.  It's terribly for quickly drawing information from.
End of psychoak's quote

True.  I'm still getting used to it and it takes a split second longer to push the icon to stroke myself off on how much AP I have.

But I love being able to see the whole map so much now that all the 'clutter' has been consolidated.  Also really like the new Tab function where you can move everyone around and be able to compare how the lanes are doing with their CS at a glance.

Reply #1975 from Demigod Forums Top

i need to figure out how to make my health bar bright gold again \: keep losing myself

Also i think it's *really funny* how mad people get about the items being on the left. Like, Rito, everyone knows items go on the left!!!!! That's how every culture ever puts its items!!!!! You dumb asses this is so stupid!!!!

Like, items being on the right/left is no better/worse... It's a completely arbitrary thing. The only justification for the left is "that its always been there"... or something. But they want to keep the bottom-left corners free, and items on the right aren't any worse once you're used to it.