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Blog: Aero Skinning, Modelers, and unorthodox skinning...

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Blog: Aero Skinning, Modelers, and unorthodox skinning...

from WinCustomize Forums

Has anyone noticed that the quality of WindowBlinds visual styles has improved lately? There's been some really great stuff coming from people like MikeB, Boxxi, and many others. With WindowBlinds 4.4 now out for registered/Object Desktop users, it's a perfect storm of good things for users (like me) who are really into this stuff.

One of the internal debates right now is whether to support Aero-style semi-transparencies in borders. We don't know how well it could be done without affecting performance. There's still lots of people who argue (incorrectly) that WindowBlinds is "slow" despite the fact it's faster than what's built into Windows XP.  I can guarantee that there's be some performance hit on all but the latest video cards for semi-transparent borders. It would be non-trivial to go and do this well. My personal feeling is I'd like to see shadows in WindowFX made more seamless. How many of you run with shadows on all the time? If not, why? I don't because I feel (maybe wrongly) that they slow down my computer. I think the first quest is to find a way to make shadows perfect as long as you have a high end video card that has proper drivers. That would be the proof of concept. I do agree that semi transparent window title bars and borders might be cool.  And I have no doubt lots of people would like the feature. The question is merely whether it's feasible or not.

Meanwhile, things are crazy at the office as usual. We're working on buying a building. Right now, we lease our building over in Livonia Michigan. But this Winter, we hope to migrate to a brand new building we're buying. We're very excited about it.  Once we're over there, we'll have more room to start hiring more peple.

Speaking of hiring, we're still in a bit of a world of pain in the art department. We really need a senior level 3D modeler, preferably one with some animation skills (i.e. someone with some serious experience). We have a fantasy strategy game in early development and we're really weak in the 3D modeling of organic things (trolls, orcs, elves, etc.).  So if you know anyone whose really good at modeling things (and I mean really good -- we have good modelers already but we don't have ones who are experienced enough to make convincing organic things fairly quickly) then have them email me ([email protected]).  And no, you can't work from remote (we get a lot of people saying they're happy to work with us, for lots of money, as long as they can work from home, we need someone on hand).

We're working with SkinPlant on a really cool new skin suite called Unorthodox. The idea is to create some truly unique looking skins that approach GUI design from new angles. We hope to have that done by October.  Meanwhile, Mormegil is nearly done with the Utopia icon suite. It's a sequel to his popular Orion icon suite. He's been working on Utopia for over a year now. It's a huge undertaking as there are so many icons in it and he has strived to create something both unique as well as something you'd want to use.  We're hoping that'll come out in October as well -- 2 years after Orion.

Next week, WinCustomize subscribers will be able to start having their own personal pages via the new WC2K5 technology. WC2K5 won't be done next week for subscribers, just the personal home pages. But I think a lot of it will blow people away. The amount of "stuff" there is, frankly, incredibly cool. By the end of September, the beta of WC2K5 will be ready for subscribers.  The full WC2K5 will be a pretty dramatic departure from the WinCustomize of today. It'll be a tabbed interface. Things will be context driven. So when you go to the WindowBlinds library, you'll see the most popular WindowBlinds skins and WindowBlinds authors along with the most recent discussions about WindowBlinds and WindowBlinds tutorials. That's what would appear on the right bar instead of the same stuff on every page.  From a speed point of view, things are really different. Right now, everything on WinCustomize is database drive.  But in WC2K5, there will be a lot of pages cached so that performance should be much higher. 

On Object Desktop, two new components are about to go into alpha/beta -- RightClick should show up next week and Web Explorer (think Internet Explorer with a tabbed interface and some other goodies built in). 

41,194 views 101 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I agree with judge about using 32-bit bitmaps for the shadows rather than interpreting the greyscale value as an alpha value. I would also like to define how many pixels a shadow is offset seperately for each side in the shadow to be able to do custom shadows for wb skins better. I have a theme which I plan on working on which is waiting for that feature.

I myself have also been wanting alpha blended (32-bit) borders as well for a long time this would enable antialiased titlebars which OSX has but most other systems have been sorely lacking. Also there is a certain theme which has the inactive titlebar transparent which could also use this. So please put this in, those people who don't want to use it don't have to.
Reply #27 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Two more things which WB has needed imo which I'm not sure it has now is visibility settings for the close button and more freeform toolbox borders. I'd lie to be able to have the size of the buttons on those and the border independent of each other and to be able to add\remove buttons there just like with the titlebar.
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If I understand this correctly, the only performance hit would be when Windowblinds is actually using a skin with transparency. It's not as if this would be implemented into WB and suddenly ALL skins would take a slight hit.

In my mind, that just gives us more options. More options for new themes, more options to update old themes and more options for the future of Windowblinds. Whats wrong with having more options to create when it doesn't hurt the abilities we already have?
Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top
smoke - WindowBlinds title bar buttons (including the close button) have all kinds of visibility conditions. You can have the close button hide and show under all kinds of circumstances.
Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top
if stardock is going to integrate the shadow thing and essentially wfx (since thats the most common use) into wb, i hope they leave it easy to turn off. it does have a large impact on my system when autocad or photoshop start getting overloaded. with wfx i just right click and unload it, and then bring it back up when my computer is out of the red again. if i had to use the properties window to bring it up its that much more my comp has to think about and render.
Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Web Explorer?

Will this be something like the Avant and MyIE browers? Just a slick shell over the IE rendering engine.
Reply #32 from WinCustomize Forums Top
My $0.2: I am a great fan of the new Aero look, so I would really like to see the option of having transparencies in wb skins. As I mentioned, this would only be an option and would open wb skins to a new world. Also, if you look at the numbers of downloads for the Luna skins before WinXP was out, you know there is a very high demand to emulate MS's new iteration GUI.

I sincerely hope you implement it!

While I'm at it, thumbs up for a great suite of apps! I've been using your soft for years now, and I have to admit that it's been the BEST purchases I've ever made! Thanks.
Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Thornz, I think the shadows are GPU accelerated not CPU so those programs you mentioned shouldn't really be affected much, unless you have a really low end card. I could be wrong though.
Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I just need to clarify some things, please point out any errors you see as I'm not perfect.

Aero = final presentation interface, we haven't seen this yet.
Avalon = the engine behind it all, also being ported to Windows XP and Server 2003.

LH themes we've seen so far = Plex, Slate, Jade, and this new "Glass" thing that is what we're talking about here with the transparent borders.
Reply #35 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Web Explorer sounds interesting. As much as I like Firefox, it is still an IE world overall and some sites I have to launch IE (or in my case Maxthon) to load them.
I would much prefer to use a Stardock program for that. Match its tabbed browsing together with SP2's popup blocking in IE, plus skinning and you got a winner. I'm not sure if I'd switch back to IE, but would at least use Web Explorer instead of Maxthon (too bulky but better than regular IE).
Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top
mav, both photoshop and acad have video acceleration options. theyre not the only programs i run anyhow, just the most used to. i also dabble with maya and use my machines to play games.

besides, the video acceleration isnt exclusive to the video card, your still using the rest of your system components.
Reply #37 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Thornz, I use PS, Premiere Pro, 3ds max, Illustrator, and game and never noticed the shadows slow anything down (I'm a game dev) in the least. What are your specs like?
Reply #38 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I use FX, but think it needs a little work, but overall, I like everything Object Desktop has. The new stuff sounds cool, and I'm interested in the Nature Desktop, but I think I'll wait awhile, till the bugs aree kinda eased out.
Reply #39 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Are the "only show close button if there is a close button" options in the previous version of WB? Or do I need the new version to have them.
Reply #40 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I coudln't find no such "show if window has a close button" or "show if a window doesn't have a close button" in skinstudio. Which versions of the software do you need to take advantage of that if it exists.
Reply #41 from WinCustomize Forums Top
i have a 3ghz 533 fsb laptop with 768 mb of memory and a mobile gf fx. pc is a 2.8ghz 800 fsb with a gig of memory and a 9700 pro. when i deal with archD paper sizes for posters and large acad files the shadows do have an impact. i assure you, my system is optimized and it is the programs. the shadows also have a few problems with other applications including some opengl programs (not all), it tries to force them into windows when theyre set for full screen. another reason i disable the program occasionally.
Reply #43 from WinCustomize Forums Top
btw mav, as I said I disable this when my system starts slowing down, im not saying wfx is a direct cause. the shadows use very little resources by themselves, but when your computer starts vibrating from seizures the shadows add another layer of strain, and it does have a noticable relief when its disabled. im not sure if im making that very clear.

regardless, all im asking for is a easy way to turn it on and off without going into properties if complicated transparency shadows (alpha, per pixel, whatever) are included into the program, just as its easy to unload them now.
Reply #47 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Can't wait for mormegil's next suite. I may install a new set of icons, look at 'em for a little bit, say 'nah' and go right back to Orion. As for shadows, I don't use them for the reason stated and they only look right with 90 degree angles. Alpha transparent window borders sounds pretty cool, though...
Reply #48 from WinCustomize Forums Top
/sigh
i like aero, i run aero skins, and i use winfx. with two clicks i can disable the shadows. why would i want to run a different skin? i dont need this, have a good evenin

/out
Reply #49 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Per pixel borders aren't like shadows as the bitmap is different. It's not like the program does real time antialiasing to the titlebar that toggles on and off done by a seperate program that you can shut off either. A person can include a non 32-bit titlebar for those who want borders as they are right now. Perhaps it could strip out 32-bit as a choice but things could get pretty ugly with that. So I suggested using a substyle that doesn't have 32-bit as a fallback skin. No need to have a meltdown it's just a suggestion.
Reply #50 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Maybe a submenu for the right click desktop menu that allows you to pick from substyles of the current running skin and have a 32-bit substyle and non 32-bit so with 2 clicks you can switch to a non 32-bit version of the same skin.