Blog: Aero Skinning, Modelers, and unorthodox skinning...

from WinCustomize Forums

Has anyone noticed that the quality of WindowBlinds visual styles has improved lately? There's been some really great stuff coming from people like MikeB, Boxxi, and many others. With WindowBlinds 4.4 now out for registered/Object Desktop users, it's a perfect storm of good things for users (like me) who are really into this stuff.

One of the internal debates right now is whether to support Aero-style semi-transparencies in borders. We don't know how well it could be done without affecting performance. There's still lots of people who argue (incorrectly) that WindowBlinds is "slow" despite the fact it's faster than what's built into Windows XP.  I can guarantee that there's be some performance hit on all but the latest video cards for semi-transparent borders. It would be non-trivial to go and do this well. My personal feeling is I'd like to see shadows in WindowFX made more seamless. How many of you run with shadows on all the time? If not, why? I don't because I feel (maybe wrongly) that they slow down my computer. I think the first quest is to find a way to make shadows perfect as long as you have a high end video card that has proper drivers. That would be the proof of concept. I do agree that semi transparent window title bars and borders might be cool.  And I have no doubt lots of people would like the feature. The question is merely whether it's feasible or not.

Meanwhile, things are crazy at the office as usual. We're working on buying a building. Right now, we lease our building over in Livonia Michigan. But this Winter, we hope to migrate to a brand new building we're buying. We're very excited about it.  Once we're over there, we'll have more room to start hiring more peple.

Speaking of hiring, we're still in a bit of a world of pain in the art department. We really need a senior level 3D modeler, preferably one with some animation skills (i.e. someone with some serious experience). We have a fantasy strategy game in early development and we're really weak in the 3D modeling of organic things (trolls, orcs, elves, etc.).  So if you know anyone whose really good at modeling things (and I mean really good -- we have good modelers already but we don't have ones who are experienced enough to make convincing organic things fairly quickly) then have them email me ([email protected]).  And no, you can't work from remote (we get a lot of people saying they're happy to work with us, for lots of money, as long as they can work from home, we need someone on hand).

We're working with SkinPlant on a really cool new skin suite called Unorthodox. The idea is to create some truly unique looking skins that approach GUI design from new angles. We hope to have that done by October.  Meanwhile, Mormegil is nearly done with the Utopia icon suite. It's a sequel to his popular Orion icon suite. He's been working on Utopia for over a year now. It's a huge undertaking as there are so many icons in it and he has strived to create something both unique as well as something you'd want to use.  We're hoping that'll come out in October as well -- 2 years after Orion.

Next week, WinCustomize subscribers will be able to start having their own personal pages via the new WC2K5 technology. WC2K5 won't be done next week for subscribers, just the personal home pages. But I think a lot of it will blow people away. The amount of "stuff" there is, frankly, incredibly cool. By the end of September, the beta of WC2K5 will be ready for subscribers.  The full WC2K5 will be a pretty dramatic departure from the WinCustomize of today. It'll be a tabbed interface. Things will be context driven. So when you go to the WindowBlinds library, you'll see the most popular WindowBlinds skins and WindowBlinds authors along with the most recent discussions about WindowBlinds and WindowBlinds tutorials. That's what would appear on the right bar instead of the same stuff on every page.  From a speed point of view, things are really different. Right now, everything on WinCustomize is database drive.  But in WC2K5, there will be a lot of pages cached so that performance should be much higher. 

On Object Desktop, two new components are about to go into alpha/beta -- RightClick should show up next week and Web Explorer (think Internet Explorer with a tabbed interface and some other goodies built in). 

41,193 views 101 replies
Reply #1 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I would be all for using shadows all the time for windows. I use WindowFX on and off but it's buggy for certain things and hasn't been updated in some time.

WC2K5 sounds awesome, and this Web Explorer sounds very cool as well (using FX currently).
Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It all sounds great,kudos to Stardock and Wincustomise.The innovation never stops.
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I for one would LOVE to see WB support alpha transparency on window borders. (and not necessarily for Aero effects, either). It'd be nice to make shaped borders without the jagginess. Even if it limited alpha transparency to just a few pixels all the way around, it'd be a huge improvement.
Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'd definitely like to see WFX do shadows better (properly shaped real time shadows, especially). Not that I want to get rid of the current style of shadows, there's some room for cool effects in that area as well (there's some Aero look shadows out there that look really cool).

I'd love to see titlebar and border transparency for WB also. Of course, I have a high end graphics card, so I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have major problems with performance

Also looking forward to the new WC and the upcoming skins and icons.

Great work!
Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top
BTW, if possible, it'd be cool to see some previews for Utopia and Unorthodox
Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top
tabbed browser eh, very interesting. might be the first to support wb a bit better. a lot of the others get a bit tweaked.

im pretty big on the aero thing, and i dont see a need for windowblinds to support alphas the way your talking. i turn winfx off witha simple click when i start using acad or some large photoshop files, be a shame if a wb required it or i had to go into properties to disable it. more seamless integration with winfx would be a great thing though. be neat if it would drop shadows behind invisble magic pink.
Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top
"One of the internal debates right now is whether to support Aero-style semi-transparencies in borders."

Don't do it. You can run WinFX to get it so why put it on WindowBlinds???

Love the blog news, keep it up.
Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top
WFX applies transparency to the whole window, not just the borders and titlebar, as Brad is suggesting. Nice enough in its own way, but not the same thing.

I like the idea of having the option of transparent border for WB, just because it's there, doesn't mean it has to be used on everything (and I doubt that it's going to be used on every skin).
Reply #10 from WinCustomize Forums Top
WindowFX shadows... I have tried it before a while back. While really fancy at times, it got cumbersome when launching certain applications. I do not know what may cause it but I feel that it may be in the Windows GDI+ subsystem. Given that Microsoft has extended the GDI API to enable developers to create some cool effects, the code is quite old and is only meant to extend the capabilities of legacy code. What seems to be missing are new driver APIs or drawing systems that gets ride of the old cruft of drawing in 2D and simply utilize the 3D hardware from the start.

For me who think this way, I am always chashing for the fancy GUI that rivals, matches, or surpasses OS X. Ideas and concepts now realized in OS X makes a XP user like myself drool. The drawing is smooth. The effect is fancy. And the transparencies are nice. I just wish Windows is capable of doing the same without any kind of weird flickering effect. I don't know who else get these kind of issues but that I what I experience when using 3rd party apps that adds shadows or transparencies.

Hopefully the Aero drawing system will cure us of that. But given from what's been known Aero is to be released on Windows XP (and 2003?) will it replace the GDI+ code completely? Or is this just another legacy GDI extension to give us the fancy stuff that Longhorn will have?
Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I run with shadows enabled all the time, but with two caveats for WindowsFX:
1. A few apps must be excluded/ignored, as shadowing gives them fits.
2. I've disabled all fade IN animations, because the delay them impose (yes, only a couple hundred ms) causes some apps to not paint their menus or windows properly or at all. But fade OUT animations are always fine.


Seeing alpha-blending in WB would be nice, but something I'd like to see even more is improved font size management. With 1600x1200 displays becoming mainstream, the 8-point fonts 99% of skins use are too small for many things. WB has the ability to enlarge ALL the skin fonts, but this causes problems because Windows does not format things well if toolbar fonts are larger than 8-point, whereas there are no issues with larger menu fonts or titlebar fonts.

What would be great is if WB would enable "font override" for Menu, Icon/Toolbar, and Titlebar fonts individually, the way the Windows control panel does. This way we could enlarge the menu and titlebar fonts for readability, but leave the toolbar font smaller to avoid compatibility problems.

Thanks...
Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don't use FX, because the shadows bog down my videocard when moving windows. Someone over at Aero-Soft has created a shadow that gives you the Aero Glass border around the window....it works okay, in appearance. It would be nice if you could use *TGA's in the windowframe and taskbar images.
Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Would that be as in "per-pixel transparency" AKA alpha transparency? As in: anti-aliased borders? That would be grand.

/me starts drooling
Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'd say if Windowblinds could do alphablended window borders and taskbars, then do it maybe only enabled if a skinner was using UIS3? to preserve the current speed and memory usage of UIS1 and 2 skins. (I made the UIS3 bit up, it doesn't exists....yet)

I know some people complain that they *must have* 95% of their memory free at all times! but I for one don't care, mememory is there for the taking, if you need all the memory you can get, then you shouldn't be running any skins. But, if the performance hit is too great then it probably won't be worth it, but saying that, if new graphic card can be used for the effects then its certainly worth developing IMHO (go on, you know you want to make a pre-preview pre-alpha release and test the waters)
Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Congratulations on all your success! It's exciting to feel like "a part" (albeit a small part) of something great! Keep up the great work!!

Reply #17 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I use WinFX for shadows permanently, and as that's the only WinFX feature I use, I don't see any performance difference. The animations and otherr effects, yes, slow me down and that's why I don't use it. But just for the shadows, I find it seemless, I don't notie any performance difference at all.
As for Windowblinds alpha borders, I say go for it, but make it theme defined. Skinners can always include a substyle without the alpha borders for the users concerned about performance.
Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Oh, and can't wait to see Web Explorer!! (but maybe you should consider a name change, it sounds a little too close to "Internet Explorer"...)
Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Woot again, more great stuff to come! I don't use WinFX because it kills my frame rate in games, and I game a lot.
Reply #20 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Wow, sounds like there are some fantastic things going on. I am very excited for this new stuff that will be rolling out.

I have played around with WinFX for shadow purposes, and while they look cool I just haven't found it to be practical for every day use. I may soon, but I have to admit that my current hardware is getting a bit old, so that makes it an issue on my end. I must say though, the aero shadows that have been done look pretty cool.

I enjoy these reads Brad! Thanks.
Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Definately intrigued by Web Explorer, that could help a lot in work as we have to use it for some dev and tabbing would be nice

As to WB supporting Alpha borders, if you can do it and have the man power it would be a great ability to show off. Even if the caveat is that you HAVE to have high end graphics, then it at least gives those who have something new to play with.
Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I would give my right arm for a sneak preview of Utopia...
Reply #23 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I use WFX shadows all the time. WFX could be improved to use per-pixel alpha blending (i.e. 32 bit BMPs) - rather than interpreting the greyscale value as an alpha value.

However (as I'm sure you know) that isn't the same as having alpha-blended borders - i.e. I would want the window controls to be on the glassy part of the window.
Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Um, kind of a change of subject, but you guys aren't leaving Livonia are you?
Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top
would like to see WB use shadows..

i havn't come across any skins with them currently in, so i use winfx.. on odly styled skins (like airlock) winfx doesn't display them properly