Homosexuals Taking Over the Earth!

if gays were born that way or if it is a choice

Define "choice" in this context. Most particularly, a conscious choice or an unconscious or subconscious choice?

If God says that homosexuality is such an awful sin, then why would he make homosexuals?

Sorry, but that's just too simplistic of an approach. If God says that that X is bad, why does he allow X to happen in the world? (Fill in for your choice of X.) If God says that killing is bad, why does he hit people with lightning? One cannot presume to know the mind of God in any meaningful way.

Being born, last time I checked, is not a sin

Carebear, we've gone over this before. No being born is not a sin, but Catholics believe that you are born with original sin--justice and holiness is only acheived through Jesus. Therefore, we are all sinful and no one sin is any better or worse than any other sin in God's eyes. Homosexuals are no more or less evil than you or I. No one is free from sin, we all have our weaknesses, but we are not on earth to judge our fellow man--that is God's duty.

Here's the catechism on original sin for you:

d. Para. 404: How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man" (St. Thomas Aquinas, De Malo 4, 1). By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam has received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state (Cf. Council of Trent: DS 1511-1512). It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed"—a state and not an act.

Like I said.....people are not born evil...so god doesn't make evil people, they choose to be that way.

Choice......as in....you are the one choosing to do something.

~carebear~

Shades~ I'm Catholic....but I don't believe that you are born evil. So.....yea.

~carebear~

Shades~ I'm Catholic....but I don't believe that you are born evil. So.....yea

No, you aren't born evil, you are born sinful...it's a fundamental tenet of the Catholic church. It's the reason we need Jesus to wash us of our sins. Being sinful and being evil are not one in the same.

You aren't born sinful. We need Jesus to wash our sins away once we make them after we are born. How can you be born sinful?! If you aren't born evil, you aren't born sinful.

~carebear~

You aren't born sinful. We need Jesus to wash our sins away once we make them after we are born. How can you be born sinful?! If you aren't born evil, you aren't born sinful.

Carebear--did you read the catechism I posted? You should talk to your priest about the concept of original sin. I'm surprised your CCD class did not go over this--it's about as basic as the Catholic church gets.

Yeah...well my CCD class teaches us the same thing every year. They like to teach us about being friends, and having fun. It's pretty sad actually. I don't always have to believe in everything my preist says do I?

~carebear~

I don't always have to believe in everything my preist says do I?

No of course not, but you should agree with the fundamental beliefs of the church that you belong to, or at least understand the concept. I think your priest would be able to better articulate the concept of original sin and its importance to the Church...but suffice to say, the Church is adament in its claim that we are born sinful as a result of Adam's transgressions. But again, sinful and evil are not the same thing.

Carebear....I do not usually reply to messages, however.....if I can open your eyes up a little it will be worth it. I am one of those born gay homosexuals. Life would have been soooo much easier for me, and just about every other gay person that I know, if we were straight. You have no idea what it is like to live your life in "the closet", for fear of being attacked physically and/or verbally. You , carebear, have the ability to say what is on your mind, do what you want to do, live with whom you want to. A gay person has to watch what he or she says or does and on occassion , keep turning their head to see if someone is about to kick their ass. The bigotted hatred out there is astounding. What a pity. Personally, I felt "different" when I was about seven years old. I had gay relationships. I at the age of thirty met a beautiful woman, who though I told her of my sexuallity, persuaded me to "try straight". We did. We maried, had no children, and divorced five years later. Here's the kicker. I remained faithful to her while we were married though I most certainly would have preffered being with a man. She however was screwing her boss, MY EX MALE LOVER, and others. Now, moving on: Regarding the G-d thing, why has G-d created men and woman that can not have children? Think HE took that into mind? Perhaps HE brought gay people into the scheme to give a home to all of the abandoned children out there! Lastly, regarding your bisexual friend, this guy just plain likes to have sex period! G-d Shmod, there is a reason for it all,but we don't know it until..... .

Carebear....I do not usually reply to messages, however.....if I can open your eyes up a little it will be worth it. I am one of those born gay homosexuals. Life would have been soooo much easier for me, and just about every other gay person that I know, if we were straight. You have no idea what it is like to live your life in "the closet", for fear of being attacked physically and/or verbally. You , carebear, have the ability to say what is on your mind, do what you want to do, live with whom you want to. A gay person has to watch what he or she says or does and on occassion , keep turning their head to see if someone is about to kick their ass. The bigotted hatred out there is astounding. What a pity. Personally, I felt "different" when I was about seven years old. I had gay relationships. I at the age of thirty met a beautiful woman, who though I told her of my sexuallity, persuaded me to "try straight". We did. We maried, had no children, and divorced five years later. Here's the kicker. I remained faithful to her while we were married though I most certainly would have preffered being with a man. She however was screwing her boss, MY EX MALE LOVER, and others. Now, moving on: Regarding the G-d thing, why has G-d created men and woman that can not have children? Think HE took that into mind? Perhaps HE brought gay people into the scheme to give a home to all of the abandoned children out there! Lastly, regarding your bisexual friend, this guy just plain likes to have sex period! G-d Shmod, there is a reason for it all,but we don't know it until..... .

Thank you for your comment Moilman. But my bi friend is a girl.

~carebear~

In that case, (lol) let me rephrase it:
Lastly, regarding your bisexual friend, this girl just plain likes to have sex period!

there are people that are gay for recreation and people that were born that way. There is no right or wrong sexual orientation. people are just people.

Where did you get that God said being homosexual was "bad" the Bible? The bible also says that eating pork and getting a tattoo is bad too.

Ashley, sweetie, you know I like you, but this is blatant points-whoring. You have hashed out what you think about homosexuality with JU again and again. I just checked my gmail account and found an email asking me, and eight other JUers, to read this article because you "think we will enjoy it." It seems to me that you would like to see a battle rage on your blog so that you can rake in the points; it doesn't seem that you are interested in any sort of meaningful discussion. If I wrong about this, please correct me, but this is very much the way it looks to me.

As to the choice issue, I'll reiterate what I said quite a long time ago, with some elaborations.

Ask just about any homosexual, and they will tell you that if there were a conscious choice to be made, they would have chosen to be normal and accepted instead of living the life of the marginalized, oppressed outsider. Actual homosexuals overwhelmingly deny that there is any conscious aspect of being homosexual.

While there is no "gay gene", no single element that can be pointed to that says "This right here is why or how you become gay", there is a set of genetic attributes that may predispose a person toward homosexuality. On top of those attributes, you have environmental issues. What genetic attributes a person has, what environment they are exposed to and how they react to that environment all factor in to whether or not they become homosexual. What the genetic attributes and the environmental factors are is essentially unknown, so while your reaction to the "environmental factors" may indeed have some conscious choice included in it, the end result of becoming homosexual is a completely unintended, unforeseen consequence.

The conscious choice that IS available is whether or not to be an "active" homosexual or a "repressed" homosexual. Once your sexual nature has been determined, it is indeed up to you how to deal with it. But actually changing that nature is next to impossible.

As TW pointed out, this is ground that has been covered ad nauseam previously, with you as an active participant in the debates. I don't know why you feel the need to bring it up again.
Though I will agree that Sam's line was amusing.

Okay, if we may not be born evil but we're not born perfect either, now are we? huh. oooohhh i have a point!!!!! anyway, being bi myself, although i hate to admit and it took me sixteen years to admit it in the first place. it is the most stressful thing in the whole world i'm convinced. I don't know why any one would chose to be this way. i love God and i want to make Him happy. in the bible it just doesn't say it's bad, it says its an abomination in His sight. I mean come on now, i'm like AHHHHHHHHHHH it's really not good. It's not like we wake up one day and say jee i think it would be a blast to be gay and burn in hell forever. ya know? In a way, admitting my sexuality brought me closer to Him because i pray more now trying to figure out what's right and wrong. Oh and if i'm the bi friend you talked to shades of grey about, i'm not this way to have sex all the time. virgin, right here, yeah!!! oh and i don't think youre judging me, and i'm not judging you either.

Plain and simply, God does not say that homosexuality is a sin. Let me guess, you are a Bush supporter.

Plain and simply, God does not say that homosexuality is a sin. Let me guess, you are a Bush supporter.

So George Bush, I mean Carebear, where does it say homosexuality is a sin. I think, although not sure, that the Bible says something about a man shall not lie with another man ...etc... but not that homosexuality is a sin. And which God I might ask? There are many according to the many people who inhabit the earth. What's the expression about walking a mile, or a hundred miles in another guys shoes...something like that. Anyway, it seems a bit premature to be formulating opinions on things of such serious nature at such an early age. I mean afterall, sexuality, either by choice nor not, can manifest itself at a later age sometimes.....wink wink.

great posts, eric!

I think, although not sure, that the Bible says something about a man shall not lie with another man ...etc... but not that homosexuality is a sin. And which God I might ask?

One would think that the "man shall not lie with another man" verse implies homosexuality.

What's the expression about walking a mile, or a hundred miles in another guys shoes...something like that.

Walking a mile in somebody else's shoe is always good, but sometimes there's such a thing as being too close to the problem. For example, suicidal people think they're trapped in a hopeless void, yet people outside can see otherwise. People

I mean afterall, sexuality, either by choice nor not, can manifest itself at a later age sometimes.....wink wink.

Which is why it doesn't matter if somebody says they felt gay as soon as they were born, because many "natural" gays felt straight for years. Hell, some even had sex with women. One has to wonder how gay one must be to have sex with somebody of the opposite gender. As a heterosexual, I know I'd never want to have sex with another man.

Ugh....homo-time again? My theory?...well, homosexuals are here to help thin out the human population....less reproduction, less people=better for the environment. Why are people homosexual?...good question....I think its some kind of genetic disorder or brain chemistry thing....but, the funny thing is....there are actually homosexual animals too....so, that's a bit interesting. I really don't think about the gay mind much, its too hard for me to comprehend.....but, you'll have that.

As for the original sin....how do you not know about that?...That's why people get baptized, to wash away sin....and then you follow Jesus and...blah blah blah, you're good to go. I'm surprised you haven't heard that, but that's what I'm for....enriching and educating my fellow peers...

~Zoo

The Lost 11th Commandment.

"Thou shalt not put his winkie in the mouth or pooper of another of the same sex."

....I'm a little bastard....

~Zoo