Gideon MacLeish Gideon MacLeish

The Myth of the College Degree

The Myth of the College Degree

About 7 years ago, I sat in a marketing "class". Oh, don't get me wrong, it contained a lot of good information. A lot of VERY good information, in fact, that I use to this day. But the marketing class was just a sales pitch for the latest Internet marketing company that had set up shop.

At the end of the day, we all received a very nice quality certificate, printed out on quality parchment paper. It was well presented, but all it was, effectively, was a sales pitch.

It was at the moment that I received my certificate that it hit me: degrees, certificates, pieces of paper are all essentially marketing gimmicks.

This is how those correspondence courses, those learn online places, make their money. Often they will offer you the information they are seeking, they just accredit their education to their own standards rather than a national standard, and issue you a "degree" based on their own educational standards. Without any kind of reputation behind it, all it is is another marketing gimmick.

I've spent the last year and a half earning the degree I never received. Now I can actually take credit for earning a college degree, and am working on another. And while there are moments where I think it might have been nice to have earned this degree when I was younger, there's a part of me that is glad I waited this long. Because not only do I value it, but I realize its value.

The degree I am earning is, by itself, worth nothing. Well, maybe the fraction of a cent recycle value that it represents. But the degree itself is utterly worthless unless the education is actually used. It is like a key dangling on a chain. If you find a key while youre walking along the street, do you keep it? Unless you're a packrat, you usually don't. It's just a worthless key, after all, and not worth spending the time stooping to pick up.

Now, then, change the scenario. Assume you find a key, and you know it unlocks a great treasure (for the sake of this analogy, we will assume it's legal to procure the treasure, provided you have the key). What do you do then? You keep it, you guard it, until such time as you can use it to obtain the treasure.

Did the key's value increase? Not one bit. It is still worth exactly what the first key was worth. But the value it REPRESENTS is what increased.

Recently it was suggested that the government should pay for all postsecondary education, up to and including advanced degrees. I disagree with that premise, and this is why. Because it makes no sense to hand out keys indiscriminately to everyone hoping that one or two will unlock the treasure.

In America, we are incredibly fortunate. We have all the tools for learning at our disposal. You cannot go to a city of any size and not find a public library. These libraries have a wealth of information available to anyone who wants to use it. And, in fact, if you're reading this, you are sitting in front of a machine that gives you access to more information than the most well stocked library.

This is what makes the suggestion of "free" postsecondary education useless. Essentially the proposal is that we hand out keys to everyone so that they can unlock their potential. But if they won't walk through open doors to unguarded treasure, why on earth would they use a key to access more closely guarded treasure?

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Reply #51 Top
No, you stated you wanted to pull people out of the mud. I said there are already ways to do that. Basically, if people are still wallowing in the mud, in America, at least, it is because they choose to be there.

As for your personal case, danielost, stop making excuses. If you are that miserable, change things!
Reply #52 Top
And Arty, I'm kind of disappointed you didn't weigh in on my "Microsocialism vs. Macrosocialism" thread!
Reply #53 Top
I think BlueDev's working on a GRADUATE degree,
End of quote


That's what I thought you were talking about with danielost in this aspect. He was talking about doctors doing their intern stuff and I thought you told him they could get jobs.

Which is false. :D

PS BlueDev's been done for over a year, now. He's a certified MD finishing up his residency.
Reply #54 Top
Daniel, judging by the number of college freshmen who have to take remedial math and English classes... no, we're not forcing math or reading on anyone. ;~D
Reply #55 Top
No, you stated you wanted to pull people out of the mud. I said there are already ways to do that. Basically, if people are still wallowing in the mud, in America, at least, it is because they choose to be there.
End of quote


what i have proposed would lift some of the people who are laying in the mud.
Reply #56 Top
Daniel, judging by the number of college freshmen who have to take remedial math and English classes... no, we're not forcing math or reading on anyone. ;~D
End of quote


i didn't say that we were doing a good job. we're too busy taking kids to picket lines to get more pay for teachers, i saw this in utah when i was driving cab, they had whole classes there. too busy telling kids that the celebration of christmas is wrong.
Reply #57 Top
I said there are already ways to do that.
End of quote


but there are more official ways of keeping them in the mud. than there are to get them out of the mud.

you also usually have to know about the ways out of the mud before you can use them.
Reply #58 Top
what i have proposed would lift some of the people who are laying in the mud.
End of quote


And I'm telling you that we already HAVE a system in place to lift people out of the mud. You're proposing universal college (which, by the way, would almost certainly become MANDATORY if the government funded it at the level of K12 education), when we already HAVE opportunities for those who need it.


That's what I thought you were talking about with danielost in this aspect. He was talking about doctors doing their intern stuff and I thought you told him they could get jobs.
End of quote


No, I was saying that a freshman college student and an intern were not the same thing. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

As I've already stated, my plan for law school will be to use loans, because I understand the hours are grueling. I know that at the graduate level it's necessary, but at the undergrad level at a state college it is all too often a luxury.

One of the reasons I'm NOT taking out much in the way of loans for my undergraduate work is because I expect I will HAVE to for law school!
Reply #59 Top
Daniellost, we have given a lot of suggestions about how a person can fund an education without making free education an entitlement. So far you seem to have ignored them all.
Reply #60 Top
you also usually have to know about the ways out of the mud before you can use them.
End of quote


You have to LOOK for a way out.

In our community, the community college sits literally 300 feet across a field from the low income apartments. EVERY welfare referral has to go through Texas Workforce which works hard to place students in the college. Believe me, danielost, if you don't know about these opportunities, you frankly don't WANT to know.

The enrollment counselor at the local college isn't going to recruit at the homeless shelter; that's not their job. If the so called "advocates" at the homeless shelter aren't trying to help these homeless people find better opportunities for their lives, well then, they're not really advocates, are they.

STOP putting the blame on the higher education system, which provides ABUNDANT opportunity, and START putting it where it belongs. On the people who have day to day contact with America's poor but would rather keep them poor so that they aren't put out of a job!
Reply #61 Top
Daniellost, we have given a lot of suggestions about how a person can fund an education without making free education an entitlement. So far you seem to have ignored them all.
End of quote


no i have not ignored them.
Reply #62 Top

STOP putting the blame on the higher education system, which provides ABUNDANT opportunity, and START putting it where it belongs. On the people who have day to day contact with America's poor but would rather keep them poor so that they aren't put out of a job!
End of quote




i wasn't. i am actually blaming the social programs, those so called help programs.

and most shelters don't want to lose their clientèle because then they would get less money for their shelters and their pockets.
Reply #63 Top
And Arty, I'm kind of disappointed you didn't weigh in on my "Microsocialism vs. Macrosocialism" thread!
End of quote


My apologies Gideon- I thoroughly enjoyed reading both the article and the responses, but my opinions on that particular topic are.... extensive.... and for me to respond would require writing a mini-essay, which for a fool like myself will take a good couple hours (I like to sit and ponder, it's therapeutic you know!) This is also why I don't write near as many articles as I'd like- because it takes me too damn long. If I don't take the necessary time to compose my words, I end up frothing at the mouth screaming in permanent caps lock, all bold and underlined:

PRETZELDENT BUSH IS TEH WORST EVAH!!!!11

followed by a short dissertation on the benefits of jello. Not something I want to subject the good folks here to.
Reply #64 Top
I would need some hard stats to show that the average 4 year state university grad is carrying $100k in debt out the door with them.


I happen to know from my own experience that it is possible to work full time and study in the evenings and pay for everything.
Reply #65 Top
followed by a short dissertation on the benefits of jello. Not something I want to subject the good folks here to.
End of quote


Jello is good. ;)

If you ever do get a hankering, I would be interested in reading your essay tho.
Reply #66 Top
Anyway, as is often the case, my point was largely lost. You don't NEED a degree to be educated, nor does a degree guarantee that you ARE educated. A degree simply means you've passed the coursework.

You can get a pretty good education from your local library and the Internet. There's no excuse not to be educated.

EDUCATE THYSELF!
Reply #67 Top
He's told us on another thread that he has a degree in accounting...
End of quote


i have a certificate. i went into job corp got a cert.


before i went in they wanted anyone with a cert. to be an accounting clerk. when i came out it one year later, they required 5 year min. exp. and i have never seen it go back down.

but your right, the only job i have held longer than 1 year was driving cab. like i have said i get bored.
Reply #68 Top
an education doesn't guarntee nothing. but it helps.


has your husband thought about becoming self employed.


or would you stand in the way.
Reply #69 Top
Why isn't Simon working as a 'political philosopher?'
End of quote


He is. It's called 'blogging'. It doesn't pay very well, though.
Reply #70 Top
i wasn't insulting.


a friend of mine here has a computer store. has had for at least 10 years and his wife is still not happy about it. although she has stopped telling him to get a real job.
Reply #71 Top

You don't NEED a degree to be educated, nor does a degree guarantee that you ARE educated. A degree simply means you've passed the coursework.

I believe that Mark Twain once said, "I never let my education get in the way of my learning" (forgive the misquote if I got that wrong). Very true to this day!

Reply #72 Top
Getting a degree is an investment just like any other. Some investments pay off and others don't. I think the only difference is, too many people expect a degree to come with guarantees, even if they don't expect them from other investments.
Reply #73 Top
So if one choses to study in the library and through teachers willing to tutor outside of university,does that make that person uneducated because of no paper?
If so then who gave paper to the first teachers?
Terry
Reply #74 Top
If so then who gave paper to the first teachers?
End of quote


Charmin. ;)
Reply #75 Top
a farmers son goes away to college for four years.


when he comes home. his dad asked him what he studied. he told his dad that he had studied agriculture.

his dad says you could have learned that from me, i have been doing it all my life.


so the two of them get in a heated argument over it. mom decides that they need to have a contest to see which one is best. so they both get a box of soil. dad plants the way he always has. the son does what he was taught in school.


when the contest is over the son wins. dad goes into the bedroom packs his bags and heads out the door. his son ask him where he is going.

dad says he is going to college.





now the meaning behind this for this thread is that dad knew what he was doing. but with the education his son was slightly better than the father at it.


no there is are no guaranties in life. and yes there will be those who won't do anything with it, this already happens. and yes there will be professional students but guess what we already have them too.