ADVENTURE-DUDE POSTS: #179



KFC POSTS: #182

Great job interjecting, KFC!

AD,

It's easy to see that the Sabbath is one of those 'sticklers' for you and with good reason for there is considerable confusion regarding the Sabbath-day.

It's often due to the failure to realize that when Almighty God said “Remember the Sabbath-day, to keep it holy” Ex. 20, He DID NOT SAY keep Saturday holy. As you know, Sabbath, Shabbath in Hebrew, means rest, while Yom ha-Shabbath means day of rest and not Saturday, so therefore Sabbath is NOT a specific day be it the 7th or the 1st.

In both Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, God says, “Six days shalt thou labor, and the definite article "The" seventh day merely implies that any day following 6 successive days that the Jews select as their 7th day was satisfactory to God.

The Jewish days were numbered, the only one named as well as numbered was the sabbath-day. The names Sun-day, Moon -day, and Saturn-day, (Saturday), unknown for a thousand years after the Jews began to keep the Sabbath holy, were of Egyptian astrologic origin, which rose from the practice of naming each day by the planet that was supposed to rule the first hour of the 24 hour day. There is no universal cosmic 7th day, so therefore the selection of a 7th day, a sabbath day, is an arbitrary act on the part of man.

That the term sabbath does not relate exclusively to the 7th day of a week, Saturday, is evident in the Pentateuch, in which many other sabbaths are enjoined besides the one that was selected by the Jews to follow after six days of labor. There is the Sabbatical Year, Deut. 15:2, the one of Lev. 25: 1-25, the Jubilee Year, the crowning sabbatical, the Shabbath Shubah, the Penitential Sabbath, that occurs between the Jewish New Year and the Day of Atonement, the Shabbath Hagodol, “the Great Sabbath”, which is celebrated before the Passover, and the Shabbath Nachamus, “the Sabbath of Comfort”.

To properly understand the question of the Sabbath day one must realize, first, that Sunday is no less a 7th day, in the religious sense, than is Saturday though the calendar we use which originated many years after the Jews selected their 7th day, lists it as the first of the week. The Commandment says that any day that follows 6 days of work is to be observed as a sabbath, a rest day.

The 7th day of rest is not of Sinaitic origin. Ages before there were any Jews, before there was such a thing as a calendar, “God blessed the seventh day”; His rest day Gen. 2:3. The Hebrews worshipped the One True God on a sabbath day from the days of Abraham until Moses brought them the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone, a period of 400 years, without having a prescribed sabbath day. This is suggested in the first word of the Third Commandment, “Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.” This word, ‘Remember’ is recognized by Jews as signifying a pre-Jewish sabbath day.

Secondly, the Commandment, “Remember, to keep the sabbath day holy”, was not changed or abrogated, and never rightly can be for it is one of God’s eternal and therefore unchangeable commandments. What Christians did was to change the reckoning of the seventh day, to select a day to supersede the particular CEREMONIAL 7th day of the Jews, which was an exclusively Jewish sabbath day, “a sign between Me (God) and you (Moses) throughout your generations. Ex. 31:13.

The Jews had divine authoritative right to interpret God’s Commandments and to designate the time and character of their ceremonies called for in the Pentateuch, when they were not specifically outlined already. In a word, they spoke with authority, BUT that was in the days when they had an Aaronic priesthood, a sacrifice, a Temple, and a Sanhedrin (high court). Those were the days when the Messiah was to come and thus to fulfill their Divine mission. That day came, when Jesus the Messiah was born, when He instituted a Church to take the place of the synagogue, when He instituted a new priesthood and a new sacrifice such as were foretold in the OT. It was then after the Church began to function in the Cenacle that the ceremonial law of the Jews including their 7th day ceased to be binding, the final authoritative end to Jewish ceremonials being proclaimed in the Council of Jerusalem.

The end of the Jewish sabbath was foretold by Osee 2:2 , the prophet of the kingdom of Israel, who said, “And I (God) will cause all her (Israel’s) mirth to ceased, her solemnities, her new moons, her sabbaths, and all her festival times .

You recommended that MM read St. Justin Martyr who wrote that the Jewish sabbath “was not in force before Moses, so it is no longer needed after the coming of Christ.”

With the end of the mission of Old Covenant Judaism came a change, not in the Commandment, “Remember to keep the sabbath-day holy”, but in the CEREMONIAL day, by the selection of Sunday to supersede the Saturday sabbath of the Jews which was selected by the Jews for the Jews only. What the Sabbath was to the Jews, while they were a “kingdom of priests, a holy nation” Ex. 19:6, the sabbath of the New Dispensation is to the Christians since they became the “chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.” 1St.Peter 2:9.

KFC POSTS: #182
I agree KFC. While both the Christian day of rest and the Jewish Sabbath both paid honor to God, they were prompted by different motives. The Jewish Sabbath was in remembrance of God having rested on the 7th day after His completion of creation, and also in memory of the deliverance of the Jews from Egyptian bondage. The Christian “Lord’s Day” was instituted in remembrance of the resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah, from the dead, the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles at Pentecost, which marked the beginning of Christ’s kingdom on earth, His Church and as a memorial of man’s freedom from the bondage of original sin through reparation made by Christ for the sin of Adam.

AD POSTS: #183

The naturalism of the Jewish Sabbath in contrast to the supernaturalism of the Lord’s Day of Christians is seen in the celebrations that usher them in.

The Jewish Sabbath is proclaimed with the Kiddush (sanctification). Wine and bread are blessed, one the symbol of joy, the other the symbol of plenty. After sipping the wine, the head of the house passes the wine to the participants of the meal that follows.

In the Catholic Church, the Lord’s Day is celebrated, “from the rising of the sun unto unto the going down thereof” as it was first celebrated by the Apostles and the early Christians in the catacombs, by the ‘Breaking of the Bread” later called the Holy Mass. There, bread and wine, instead of being used as mere symbols of joy and plenty, are transsubstantiated, changed into the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ. The priest offers the Blessed Eucharist as an unbloody sacrifice, “a clean oblation” to God and fulfilling the prophecy of Malachais 1: 11.

The Kiddush is a sabbatical service for the spiritual man, to further his temporal existence, the Holy Mass is a sacrificial service primarily to gain for man the eternal promise by Christ to those who partake of His Body and Blood.

And lastly, it was the Apostles, to whom our Lord Jesus Christ gave the power to “bind” and to “loose” met on the first day of the week, the Lord’s Day, to fulfill the requirements of the Third Commandment of God. They were the teaching body of the universal Church Christ established, and they exercised their infallible power of changing the 7th day sabbatical reckoning.

Sunday observances supplemented rather than supplanted Saturday observances of the Sabbath during the first days of the Church. This was due to nearly all the Christians being converts from Old Covenant Judaism. As we have already discussed, their inherited high regard for the ceremonies of the Old Law caused them to go so far as to hold, for a time, that the Gentile converts should be circumcised, insisting that they had to become Jews before they could become Christians. It was the Council of Jerusalem in 49-50AD, followed by the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD, which ended once for all the priestly sacrificial services of the Jews, that caused the line of demarcation between the Jewish and Christian 7th day Sabbath,, which was blurred for a time, to be so clearly defined, and universally accepted, that it has hardly been questioned during the ages.



Me too, KFC. This lengthy answer to the Sabbath questions continually propounded may be concluded by quoting St. Paul's warning to the Colossians and he warns us today, “Let no man judge you in meat and drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon or of the sabbaths.”

Sounds like a bunch of replacement theology to me.

Secondly, you have only showed me that either Paul lied or the "Christian" teachings are lying by 'replacing' what is not there (no third direction).

The Sabbath (seventh day) was created for man. G-D almighty was pretty upset with Israel for profaning HIS Sabbath. There is NO record of the Sabbath changing. The Sabbath was a major stickler for G-D throughout the OT. So either G-D changed (which again contradicts scripture) or you are subtracting the 'seventh day' and adding the 'first' day.

I'm not at all advocating replacement theory. I believe God has a specific plan for Jews and a specific plan for Gentiles but in the end they will be joint heirs together with him in the kingdom.



Yes



Absolutely



There is NO record of the Gentiles keeping the Sabbath either. The Sabbath was NEVER given to the Gentiles. It wasn't EVEN mentioned after Pentecost. BTW...what day was Pentecost? Also what was the reason for the two loaves baked with leaven way back in Lev 23:17 celebrating the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost)? Leaven ALWAYS represented sin and they were to rid their houses of it for Passover. Now for the fourth feast they were to bake TWO loaves with leaven? Why? And Why was Pentecost on a Sunday...or first day of the week? Read Lev 2:11.

Acts 15 and Col 2 are very clear. This was not meant to carry over into the New Testament that Christ instituted in the Upper Room. Now the rest of redemption is celebrated. God's redemption in giving of his son was harder than it was for him to create the whole world.

Really?



How is replacing the Seventh Day Sabbath as prescribed by TORAH to the first day of the week NOT replacement theology?



Oh really?

Exodus 20

8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Gentile = meaning in general all nations except the Jews (dictionary.com).
sojourner = derived from STRONG'S 1616. ger (gare)
Or (fully) geyr (gare); from guwr; properly, a guest; by implication, a foreigner
alien, sojourner, stranger. WWW Link



For the readers:
The Pentecost that KFC is referring can be found in Acts chapter 2.

- And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath (Acts 13:42).
- And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, (Acts 17:2).
- And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks (Acts 18:4).

Again I say... Some one is guilty of false testimony here. It is either Paul or the 'Christian Theology.' If Paul is guilty of false testimony then ALL his writings should be BANISHED from the Bible.

What gets me they would rather attack the truth then the lies,heck they would rather attack me as a false teacher then focus on the torah and the prophets which Sh'aul taught out of,not many are willing to call this man of YHVH a liar but yet they do proclaim him as a brain dead liar who did not know how to really preach to the pagans.

The Almighty of the TaNaK is still the Almighty of the Good News,he told us he changes not,what he did was establish various covenants/contracts with those who listened and obeyed the Word of His Voice,he has even reaffirmed a better covenant through establishing His Son as King and High Priest over the World. We can either come and follow him to life or walk our own polluted way unto death.

My advice is quit misusing the words Sh'aul wrote or it is going to lead to your downfall,for this man was never found guilty of Torah violation what he was guilty of was preaching Yehoshua resurrected.
Pastor Terry
P.S. Sh'aul circumcised Timothy but not Titus..hmm circumcision,,people get your heads out of your church and into the whole council of the Word of YHVH.

Terry, with all due respect be careful with your words. No one on this thread is 'attacking' you. The thread that you were 'attacked' on has been dead for awhile now.


Is it really necessary to bring this issue back up?

The Sabbath was NEVER given to the Gentiles. So the Gentiles are NOT replacing anything. Secondly, this was a new Covenant in a line of many covenants in scripture.



Yes, where would Paul preach to a group of Jews congregating? In the synagogue. He went there to preach to them Christ was the Messiah as predicted. He used OT scriptures to show them Christ was who he claimed to be. None of the scriptures you point out are showing or advising that we are under the Law. Most of the NT is specifically saying we are NOT under the law. I can give you many scriptures showing you this including Col 2 and Acts 15 which we have gone over, not to mention quite a bit of Romans and Galatians.

The only two things required of the Gentiles as they came into the faith according to Acts 15 is to avoid idolatry and sexual immorality v19-29. Not one writer to the Gentiles advocated

Well then you are if you are insisiting that we are still under the law. Paul is not guilty. Acts is a historical chronicle of the happenings in the early church. Not once in scripture will you see Paul say we are to keep the Sabbath. Can you show me?

I have no problem if one wants to keep the Seventh day as their special Sabbath day, but to preach and teach that we are mandated to keep this is wrong and is what the Judiazers were doing condemned by Paul in Galatians especially. To mandate this is to walk on the treadmill of works.

"Christ is become of no effect to you whosoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace." Gal 5:4

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28.

The law condemns us as it points to Christ. Our rest isn't in a day, it's in a Savior. He is our rest. That's why Paul said this in Col 2:16-17

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a holyday or of the new moon or of the sabbath days; Which are a shadow of things to come but the body is of Christ."

To back up what I said here AD:

Acts 20:7:

And upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them.....

This became the regular day of worship for Christians in remembrance of Christ's resurrection on Sunday. Think about it...if you are always celebrating on Saturday (7th Day) when do you celebrate his resurrection (First Day of the Week)?

1 Cor 16:2

"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him that there be no gatherings when I come."

The Christian's giving is to be done regularly on Sunday and into a private fund at home from which fund he makes distributions and in proportion to God's prospering.

KFC, I already showed this to you in Post #190.



Did you forget these 19 verses?

ALL after Pentecost:

Acts 15:21 - For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.
Acts 22:3 - I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city educated under Gamaliel , strictly according to the Torah of our fathers, being zealous for G-D just as you all are today.
Acts 23 - I have walked according to Torah.....I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees.
Acts 24:14 - believing everything that is in accordance with the Torah and that is written in the prophets.
Acts 25:8 - I have committed no offense either against the Torah of the Jews or against the Temple.
Acts 26:22 - I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said.
Acts 28:17 - Brethren....I had done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers.
Romans 2:13 - For it is not the hearers of the Torah who are just before G-D, but the doers of the Torah will be justified.
Romans 2:26-27 - If the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Torah, will not his uncircumcision? and he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Torah, will he not judge you who through having the letter of the Torah and circumcision are a transgressor of the Torah?
Romans 3:31 - Do we then nullify the Torah through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.
Roman 7:12 - So then, the Torah is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
Romans 7:14 - For we know that the Torah is spiritual
Romans 7:22 - For I joyfully concur with the Torah of G-D in the inner man.
1 Cor 7:19 - What matters is the keeping of the commandments of G-D.
1 Cor 11 - We see Paul partaking in Passover (which is what the Lords supper was all about).
Galations 3:24 - Therefore the Torah has become our tutor to lead us to Messiah so that we may be justified by faith.
Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of G-D; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Messiah Jesus for good work of Torah, which G-D prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
1 Timothy 1:8 - We know that the Torah is good, if one uses it lawfully.
1 timothy 6:14 - Keep the commandment (Torah) without stain or reproach.

I have highlighted the words of Paul that directly contradict what you said for our readers convenience.



If I'm guilty of anything, it is insisting that Paul's words speak for themselves. I am only giving you scriptures and letting Paul's OWN words do the talking. I gave you 19 references where Paul (after Pentacost) supports Torah observance (above). You say you can give me MANY references where Paul says the Torah is done away with. That makes Paul a liar. Plain and simple.



On the 3rd day of Matzot (or 18th of Abib/Nisan) which was April 6th this year. Jesus was crucified on the first day of Passover (using biblical days of evening until evening the next day). He arose on the third day of Matzot (as it begins on the day after Passover).

Unlike Easter (April 8, 2007), Passover is based upon the New Moon in the spring whereas Easter is based upon the sunday on or after the Vernal Equinox.

No, what you showed me was there was to be no work in a Jewish Household during the Sabbath day. Nobody even the animals were to be working. That is NOT giving the Gentiles a Sabbath Day. The Sabbath was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles and you cannot show me in the NT where it was something the Gentiles had to adhere to. Can you?



No, some I addressed. Remember? I mentioned Paul going into the Synagogue on the Sabbath because that's when the groups gathered to hear the scriptures. On Sunday, they were working. Did you not read about the young lad that fell out of the window when Paul was preaching? Why? Because the early church would meet at night on Sunday, the first day of the week (Lords Day) because they worked all day. Acts 20:7-9.

I'll take a few you put down ok?



In context beginning with v19 we see James puts down a verdict. The Judizers were insisting that the Gentiles had to follow the law if they were to come into the faith. A big commotion ensued and James finally said "Wherefore my sentence is that we trouble not them which from among the Gentiles are turned to God But that we write unto them that they astain from pollutions of idols and from fornication and from things strangled and from blood." Then goes on to the next verse which you put above.

Your verse 21 DOES NOT preach the Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath. The clear verdict from James was that Gentile converts need not to be circumcised. In order to promote peace between Jewish and Gentile believers the Gentiles were asked to abstain from any practice abhorrent to Jewish Chrisitians. The Jewish Christians would then socialize with them. Then all the letters went out explaining all this with the verdict repeated in v29. These two things were the only lifestyle change the Gentiles were asked to make. Nothing about the Sabbath was required of them.

Did you notice what else was put into the letter (v24)?

"Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words subverting your souls saying, You must be circumcised and KEEP THE LAW; to whom we gave NO SUCH COMMANDMENT."

Ok, moving on to Acts 22:3. You wrote:



Now how does this prove the Sabbath is to be kept today? Paul was arrested. His defense was to go back explaining his background to these Jews. The Jews laid their hands on him to arrest him. WHY? Because he was teaching AGAINST the law. Go back to 21:28 and hear what the Jews were crying out against Paul.

"crying out Men of Israel help; This is the man that teaches ALL MEN every where against the people AND THE LAW and this place...."

So Paul was almost killed in the Temple but was rescued by soldiers. He then goes on the defense going back to his upbringing. He tells them he was as zealous, if not more so, than they. He kept the law perfectly he says. He's not telling them they have to continue this...he's telling them his background explaining he was where they are now. Going on he shows them how this zealousy for the law brought on the death of Stephen. So if this is your criteria AD then you're in the same camp as the Pharisees as Paul said he was.

what verse are you referring? all I can say here, to be brief, is past tense is involved. Not present tense.



Who's he talking to? He's talking to Governor Felix in his own defense after being accused in a court of law by the Jews as being an insurrectionist (v5). He was also accused of being a leader of the Nazarenes and desecrating the Temple (v6).

In his own defense starting in v10 and continuing way past your v14 he explains himself. In the verse you pulled he's saying I have always walked and believed with my whole heart all that is written in the Torah and in the prophets.

Well AD I can say that as well. I do too. That is NOT saying that he is still worshipping on the Sabbath. He said plainly he's now following the "way." This was what the early church was first called.



Continuing on to your next quote AD. Now Paul's going before Festus. These law believing JEWS plainly wanted to KILL Paul. They were laying in wait for him, (v3). In v7 we see the Jews made up charges they could not prove against Paul. He then answers with your v8. He was telling the truth. He had committed no offense.

Looking at v18-19 it says: "Against whom when the accusers stood up, they brought none accusation of such things as I supposed; But had certain questions against him of their own superstition and of one Jesus which was dead, whom Paul affirmed to be alive."

Paul once a Pharisee was now a believer in Christ so his new religious beliefs were centered around the resurrection of Christ. Thus the dispute. The Jews were looking at Paul as a trouble maker who needed to be killed. He was teaching AGAINST the law (see Romans and Galatains) and they were losing many to the "way." He needed to be stopped.

So AD, taking your verses out of the context yes, it could appear that you are right. But reading them in context you can clearly see it's not at all what you are teaching. That's why topical preaching can be dangerous. If you take a scripture out of context it's nothing but a pretext. Context is so very important.

KFC POSTS:

Bingo!



Double bingo!

With Christ, the Messiah came decision time for everyone, then and now. You are either with Him or against Him...there is no soft, cushy, gray middle road.

Perhaps now is the time to discuss --- what is Judaizing? I'd say it's an attempt at mixing the Old Law with the New and Eternal Covenant of Grace.

The Christian churches of Rome, Galatia, Corinth, Colosse, Philippi and others were full with Judaizers. It was the subject of the first Council from which Acts 15:5 tells us "But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, 'It is necessary to circumcize them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.'"

We read in his Epistles that St. Paul treated this problem with the harshest of comdemnations.

AD, the religion of the Old Covenant is no more. The end came as the Temple Veil was rent from top to bottom at the moment of Christ's Crucifixion and in 70AD the Temple was completely destroyed within the generation of the Sanhedrin fulfilling Christ's prophecy. Daniel 7 and St.Matt 26. The Jews exclusive power to share God with the nations was gone forever with the destruction of the Temple. Is. 2:2-5, 56. God was making it known that the ceremonies of the ancient law were to be abolished by Christ and Heaven was open to all.

Only in the New Covenant in the Blood of the Savior is the true worship of God to be found. The rabbinicals rituals and the ceremonial laws of the OLd Covenant, being aboolished, now count for nothing, confer no grace, and save no one. Worse, they bring a curse upon those who obstinately cling to them. StPaul warned the Jews of this when he said, "for as many as are under the works of the law, are under a curse." Gal. 3:10. In Hebrews 7:18-19, he says, "there is an abrogation of the former commandment becasue of the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law brought nothing to perfection. He went on and said, In saying a new, He (Christ) made the former old. and that which decayeth and groweth old is near its end." I have to conclude that the end came in 70AD.


This begs the question is modern Judaism salvific?

I say no based on Christ's own affirmation that "there shall be one flock and one shepherd." Therefore Christianity, the Church and Judaism cannot be seen as two parallel ways of salvation.

The New Testament doesn't speak of one covenant with two different ways to salvation, but rather the dramatic end of the OLd Covenant and the beginning of the New and Eternal Covenant in the blood of Christ.

I see this article is doing fine while I was away, I am amazed sometimes at how much I learn here.

Thank you to all those that have participated!

christianity is also guilty of being judizers,for a judizer and christian has one thing in common they follow the local yokel pastor then follow the true High Priest and His Word...So many say those who walk as Messiah walked is a legalist,I would rather be a legalist then a illigalist,especially when it comes to the words given for salvation and death.

Hmmm how many ever though being a Illigilist is the right way,it would be like you are ailligal immigrant in his nation wanting to keep your old ways..maybe we need to give this word some more insight,would you rather be a Legalist or a Illigalist?
Pastor Terry

Mark 2:27 - And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

It doesn't say to "Jews only" club.

444. anthropos (anth'-ro-pos)
From aner and ops (the countenance; from optanomai); man-faced, i.e. A human being
certain, man.

It was given to man, human kind not to just a small remote group.



Could it possibly be because this was his manner or custom?

Acts 17:2 - And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,



Exactly because it wasn't the Sabbath? Thanks for proving my point.



Acts 20:7-12

Verse 7 here which is so often used as an argument for 'Sunday Sabbath'

And upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread Paul preached unto them ready to depart on the morrow and continued his speech until midnight (Acts 20:7)

Let's look at 'first day of the week' and 'morrow'

They are meeting on the first day of the week and Paul is leaving on the morrow.

Part I - Meeting on first day of week

3391. mia (mee'-ah) - Irregular feminine of heis; one or first
4521. sabbaton (sab'-bat-on)- Of Hebrew origin (shabbath); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. The interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications

Genesis 1:5 - tells us how to differentiate the days.

"And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."

According to the Biblical day the 'first day of the week' would begin the evening after the Sabbath (ie Saturday evening) and remains consistent with the Greek Strong translations.

Part II - Morrow

1887. epaurion (ep-ow'-ree-on) - From epi and aurion; occurring on the succeeding day, i.e. (hemera being implied) to-morrow day following, morrow, next day (after).

our clue here is the root word aurion:

39. aurion (ow'-ree-on)- From a derivative of the same as aer (meaning a breeze, i.e. The morning air); properly, fresh, i.e. (adverb with ellipsis of hemera) to-morrow

This all makes sense with the added part of, "kept on talking until midnight."

So in conclusion Paul here is talking about meeting on Saturday evening and if Sunday was the "new" Sabbath wouldn't he be breaking it by his travels?

KFC said:






Talk about context. You said Sabbath wasn’t even mentioned after Pentecost I showed you several verses that contradict what you said.



Since you bring up Acts 15 for a closer look let’s address the actual issue here.

Acts 15:1 - And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

This is the underlying reason that the Jerusalem Council met. Salvation wasn’t ever given through or by circumcision.

The teaching of these ‘certain’ men was incorrect and needed to be addressed with the Jerusalem Council as these men preaching in Antioch were from Judea. So the congregation sent Paul, Barnabas, and others to Jerusalem (V 2).

Acts 15:5 - But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

The issue wasn’t about keeping the Torah. In fact it can be argued that here is an example of Messiah believing Pharisees. I say this in conjunction with Peter in verse 7.

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Acts 15:21 - For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
There is evidence here that the council members were Torah observant and believed in Messiah. Please not the present tense of the verbs.

But back to the issue at hand… The certain men were from Judea and it appears that the congregation needed to clarify who was sending this message and whether it came from the Jerusalem Council.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Here is the Jerusalem’s response to the congregation in Antioch.

Acts 15:1 - … ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Acts 15:24 - Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Please note here WHO is saying they gave no such commandment. The “we” is implied from the Jerusalem Council saying that they never gave the commandment that ye must be circumcised or ye cannot be saved.

Hopefully you can see the issue wasn't about Torah observance here but about refuting what the 'certain men' were preaching as commands that were given by the Jerusalem Council. Then enclosing a note of encouragement to begin moving towards Torah Observance as these are Kosher Laws being mentioned in Verse 29.

Hey MM, we are happy to see you made it back from Florida.

Yes, same here.

AD,

I just want to let you know I'll be away from my desk for a while as fall cleaning must be done.

Thanks for the heads up Lula. This is an incredibly busy time of the year for me at work. It will take me a bit to finish up with KFC's responses before I get to yours.

What I am loving the most is the respectful way that each side is presenting its point of view. This is why I love JU so much.

elie

Better than following a 'Pastor' that isn't even a real Pastor, like Terry here, who is recognized by NO official church.

For Pete's sake, even my Husband is ordained. It cost Him $40.

Little Whip
Mine cost me alot of study,as for being recognized,I am recognized as a Senor online Pastor for Truth and Knowledge Ministries out of Bediford Maine,Bishop James Sheldon runs the home church,and has been wanting me to move up there so we can take the brunt of the online to the congregation.
Bet that was the easiest 40 dollars he ever spent,at least I did not have to buy mine,see I am not recognized by the christian system because I teach the Way as the Apostles taught in there day thats why.

As for me I can really care less about titles,but if someone came along speaking truth the roman organized christian system does not recognize as truth but was totally scriptual I for one would listen,for you never know if one who is sent to speak to you might one day actually be Yahshua himself.

Your response is one which got the Apostles killed for standing on the Torah and the Prophets and not coming out of the web of deciet the false ones through over the unwary.

You gettin much smoke up there?

Respect,everyone wants respect,but the problem is not many return respect,this is what happened in 325 A.D. one side loved their neighbors,respected their neighbors,but the other side killed them all in the name of Universalism/Christianity,why was this so?

Why did one side do all they could to show care,helpfulness,love and the other side showed hate,they killed those who showed love and kept to the Way of Israel,and the sad thing is both sides professed belief in the same Savour,Redeemer,King and High Priest,but one side killed the other,was this respect?
Pastor Terry

I am not sure if you are poking fun at me or not. If you are, good for you. if not, nope I live 300 miles from the fires, we up here in the northern part of the state do not get those crazy fires that burns up everything. BTW those huge wildfires are because of the LIBERALS that keep other people from thinning the trees and cleaning underbrush because they don't want to disturb the buffalo cricket or some such other nonsense!

Well thank you both for the welcome home.