Larry Kuperman Larry Kuperman

The Return of Prayer in Schools

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The Return of Prayer in Schools

Not What You Think

http://www.storyofpakistan.com/contribute.asp?artid=C071
from JoeUser Forums
I was debating with a neighbor of mine about prayer in American schools and I suggested that we would probably live to see it become an issue again....just not the way that we thought.

The prayer book may well be the Quran.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in America. Muslims are now the largest minority religion (counting all forms of Christianity as the majority) and have a high birth-rate. In some European countries, the birth-rate of the Muslim minority is often cited as being three times that of the Christian majorities. (France is the country most often cited, I saw this in several places, but I am not sure that it is true. Accompanying this is a prediction that France will be a majority Muslim country by 2050.) Additionally, Muslim immigration to the US continues at a rapid pace and Islam continues to gain converts at a very high pace.

The good news is that Christians may see many of their agenda items made real:

- A return of prayer in school.

- Abstinence education, perhaps enforced by the occasional stoning.

- A return to the sexual mores of a by-gone era, including dress codes.

As I said to my neighbor "Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it."
7,737 views 34 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
Kingbee commented: "The good news is that Christians may see many of their agenda items made real including a legal system based on G-d-given law...Sharia." My point exactly and excuse the (minor) edits.

The thing is that when you open the door for one religion to be the State religion....you better take into account that people and things change. Lebanon, for example, was once controlled by a Catholic minority. Look at Lebanon today.
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
KFC: 4. Jefferson read and studied the Quran for the sole purpose in understanding the mind of the enemy solely to defeat them in the Battle of Tripoli. He didn't read it because he thought it was a good addition to the bible.

This is simply untrue, KFC, please take a good look at this article archieves in the Library of Congress regarding the relationship between Jefferson and the "founding" generation and Islam.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html

Be well.
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Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
But...you have advocated prayer in the classroom, teaching abstinence, etc. Would you be okay with teaching those "values" in the context of Islam?


Not really. I'm not really an advocate of prayer in the schools anymore. Not in this culture. We can't go back now. As far as abstinence? Yes. That is a good idea not because of religious ideas so much as it's just a good idea for the kids no matter the affiliation. Actually the Muslims, Christians and the Jewish Religion all would support this.

There is no such thing as "safe sex." There is so much stuff out there they can get never mind the self esteem and emotional issues they're dealing with by engaging in sexual activities even at the tender age of 12. The only "safe sex" is to teach the kids abstinence. What's safer than that? Tell them it can be done. Give them options.

Both were taught lessons in school. What they took from those lessons was very different.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran Minister, certainly formed a lot of his opinions when he lived in New York, studying at Union Theological Seminary and hanging out in Harlem. Rock on for pointing out Corrie Ten Boom. My class used to read The Hiding Place.


Yes both were taught lessons in school. Where they differed was one claimed it and one did not. I love Corrie as well. I've got some of her stuff as well as Bonhoeffer's. I've got Corrie on tape before she died. She was one amazing lady.

Good article Larry. Lots to comment on here, but no time to do so...maybe later. From a Christian POV I look at this from a spritual viewpoint and I know that Satan's idea of victory is "if you can't beat them, join them." The same thing happening here is similar to that of the 4th century with the Romans joining in with Christianity. Mix them all together, blend them and then take over. That's where we're heading. How long do you suppose it will take to make the U.S. a Muslim Nation under Allah? They seem to like it over here.

Thanks Sodaiho...I'll check that out soon.





Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
i mean the first commandment or second honor thy father and mother. is something ever civilization on the planet has always held. whether it is a law or not. i was told to show where it was a law. and i said show me where it is religious


you don't know the commandments dan ie lost? no wonder you're having a problem grasping any of this.

don't they have some sorta beginner blog at disney.com?
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
you've continually avoided a question i've directed to you at least 5 times in less than a month: why and how did they manage to create such an excellent constitution which they clearly intended to be the basis of our american government with no mention whatsoever of any god--much less the judeo (not judean) christian (by which you really mean christian christian) faith???


Good question and while I remember you asking this once or twice on my blog...five times? I actually thought I answered you this when I brought up the subject of John Locke (1632-1704) on my site.

Anyhow, he was an English theologian and political philosopher, and Declaration signers such as John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Rush, and many others sang his praises. John Quincy Adams even made a comment that the Declaration was founded upon the same theory of government expounded in the writings of Locke. So our Declaration had it's beginnings in a theologian's writings.

His writing that most influenced the Founders’ philosophy in the Declaration of Independence was his "Treatise of Government." In fact, signer of the Declaration Richard Henry Lee declared that the Declaration was “copied from Locke’s Treatise on Government.”

If I remember correctly I advised that you go and get this book still available out there. It's actually two treatises in one book.

Locke quoted the Bible in 1,349 references; in his second treatise, he cited it 157 times. Imagine! In the primary work influencing the Declaration of Independence, Locke referred to the Bible over 1,500 times to show the proper operation of civil government. And we wonder why the Declaration has been such a successful document?

While the framers didn't specificially reference God, where did the signers find the ideas of God-given inalienable rights, religious freedoms, liberty of conscience, individualism, limited government, etc? These ideas have now made the Declaration the most successful government document in the history of the world. All of it is based on scripture and it's no wonder it has lasted and been so successful. The sooner we get away from these principles the quicker our downfall.

It's clear that while almost all of the framers and signers of the Constitution and Declaration were strong Christians, referenced by their writings, their desire was for Americans to have Freedom of Religion....not Freedom From Religion.




Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
when in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

but they did in this document


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Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
John Locke


if locke had lived long enuff to carry each and every delegate on his back to philadelphia for the convention, bought them all dinner, powdered their wigs at night while they slept and, to a man, they joined him daily at noon to chanting the name of god 30,000 times before counting down locke'w top 100 biblical verses most vital to good government, it could barely be more telling that our constitution's authors and executors chose--not neglected nor forgot--to avoid any mention of god, christ or the bible in that document.

many of those men were lawyeres. all were products of an era in which words were weighed carefully and employed deliberately.

then, as now, what matters isn't what's opined or proposed or discussed. if it ain't in the contract, it ain't germane.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
where did the signers find the ideas of God-given inalienable rights, religious freedoms, liberty of conscience, individualism, limited government, etc?


where exactly in the bible will one find manifestations or advocacy of man's inalienable rights, religious freedom and individualism? far as i know, classical greece didn't contribute anything to the old testament.

as far as limited government goes, core support for all remaining european monarchs has always been provided--to this very moment--by one christian church or another.

our constitution was the first--and remains the most defiant--affront to the concept of divinely delegated governmental authority.
Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top
Laws of Nature and of Nature's God


nature and nature's god could as easily refer to a hindu diety as your candidate. i don't recall any similarly phrased reference to the god of the old or new testament.