Frogboy Frogboy

Leave and NEVER come back.

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Leave and NEVER come back.

Those who would impose their wills on us are not welcome here

from WinCustomize Forums

WinCustomize is a PG-13 site.  It is also a site where people are encouraged to discuss issues on skinning and customization in an open environment.

But over the past few yeras, I've watched WinCustomize's forums degrade from being the central point in the skinning community for discussion of skins and themes to being a monolithic forum filled with self-appointed elites who stifle contrarian thoughts and opinions through bullying and intimidation.

That ends now.  When we launched WC2K7, I made clear that I would be stepping in to put an end to the rank elitism that permeates the forums from time to time.

To those who would attack, insult, or demean others for having different points of view I say leave and NEVER come back.  To those who use the arguemnt "This is a family site" as a shield to impose their own brand of tyranny you are not welcome here.

This site is not designed for people who are under the age of 13.  We are not catering to children. We are catering to adults but allow people who are 13 and over.  We allow people to discuss and disagree issues. 

An incident occurred in this thread that provides an opportunity for us to make clear that those who would try to bury discussion with threats will not longer be welcome here.

For too long, people have used the threat of removing their works to crush disent to their opinions. When someone threatens to take their creations and leave the discussion always changes from what was being discussed to trying to convince the offended to stay.  Over time, this has resulted in a great loss in diversity of thought and discussion on this site.

What this community does not need are a handful of self-appointed elitists trying to force their points of view down the throats of others. 

This is a COMMUNITY site. It is not a site for snobby, self important elites who get kicks out of trying to bully others and impose their wills on others.

To any skinner or user woh has a problem with this. Leave and never come back. Remove your things and GO. GO NOW and never ever return.

From here on, if I see someone trying to force their opinion or end a discussion they disagree with by threatening to remove their creations and leave, I will force the issue. I will exile them and have their works deleted from this site. 

We want a community where people feel comfortable discussing any issue that relates to skinning and customization without fear of reprisal, personal attack, or intimidation. 

If someone disagrees with a policy of the site, a decision of the moderators, or has a problem with a user, let it be discussed civily and openly without someone commanding others to adhere to their demands lest they take their things and go.  Because that time is over now.

 

45,616 views 187 replies
Reply #76 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If I was that Volkswagen car owner, I would tell them to fuck off it's my car and my life.



Can any language now be used also? I know I dont allow my 13 year old to say it

Honestly when I read this response I was surprised it had'nt been filtered out.. Im even more surprised its still here after many many hours.

If it's allowed then excuse me for pointing it out and I'll just notch it up for another win for liberalism.

@ogman.. your just not gettin it. Yes.. MY standards. MY opinion. Yes, I hear MYself.

However, I think you will probably run out of places to go in fairly short order.


Thanks you made MY point nicely. And you made yours quite Insultingly..

by MY standards.   
Reply #77 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Can any language now be used also? I know I dont allow my 13 year old to say it


WinCustomize is a PG-13 site.


According to the MPAA which decides the ratings, the F-Word is PG-13 rated. With that noted and the above stated by FrogBoy this should be okay.
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Reply #78 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Honestly when I read this response I was surprised it had'nt been filtered out.. Im even more surprised its still here after many many hours

WC is an adult site, so adult language can be acceptable if it's in the right context   

Reply #79 from WinCustomize Forums Top
WC is an adult site, so adult language can be acceptable if it's in the right context


Fuckin A ! Then im glad were all adults here !

Oh..Where are the context guidelines? , I'd hate to curse myself into being banned.  
Reply #80 from WinCustomize Forums Top
PG 13... Always keep in mind what would be acceptable in a PG 13 movie.  Cursing is allowed in bits and pieces so long as it's not too over the top or too frequent.
Reply #81 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Fuckin A ! Then im glad were all adults here !




I can't help it. The F word cracks me up. Richard Pryor could have stood on stage and just said it over and over for an hour and I would have been rolling.


It seems that everyone has made their point, taken their stand, etc. Lines drawn, alliances formed and dissolved, some important things lost, feelings hurt and so on.

When can we all just agree to disagree?
Reply #82 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Always keep in mind what would be acceptable in a PG 13 movie.



acceptable to who?   

Well, I've done my part for trying to stick up for whats I personally believe is right.

Im not pulling any of my work but I did think WC had way more class than Ive seen in past couple of pages.

Well, won't be the first time i've been disappointed.

Hops back into Skinstudio*   



Reply #83 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Sorry Brad, but I have to agree that the image of that girl is offensive, at least to me. There is absolutely no reason to use children in images that portray them in and indecent manner such as this. That is not an adult, it is no more than a 9-12 year old child to me, and I would need someone to prove to me otherwise.
Reply #84 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Double post


Reply #85 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I'm starting to find this all very bizarre. That girl is clearly mid 20s, to suggest she is 14, or even 9-12 is just completely off the wall.

It's just an adult girl in a bikini. I cannot comprehend what is offensive or indecent about it. Maybe this is a cultural difference? Whatever the reason I find it all very strange   

Reply #86 from WinCustomize Forums Top

At this point it doesn't even matter to me who was right or wrong. I just sit here in awe at all the ass kissing posts agreeing with Frogboy. I wonder if he took the opposite point of view if we would see an about face of opinions.
A community is made up of free thinking individuals. Brad has stated what he wants. Agree or disagree . But think for yourselves and not act like puppets.

Well we agree on one thing - people should be free here to have their own opinions.

THAT is the issue at hand.  We want people to be able to freely express their opinions on things in a rational, reasonable, calm way.  We do NOT want people to stifle disent through bullying or threats.

Reply #87 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I *think* what Frogboy was trying to convey is just this: Shout and holler...run naked, be free but don't use 'taking away your works' as a tool or THREAT to get what you want.

That is precisely it.

What someone makes the threat to take their creations and leave, it changes the discussion away from the issue that is being discussed to one of placating the person who is making the threat.

That is precisely what we saw in that thread and what we have seen in the past.  No one is forced to have their creations here. But we will not allow people to have their creations here if they're going to use them as leverage to force others to do as they command.

Reply #88 from WinCustomize Forums Top
WC is an adult site, so adult language can be acceptable if it's in the right context



So WC is an adult site.. So we can upload nude pictures of men and women. Well FUCK this is an adult site so we can upload men and women nude and in the sex act. See where I am going with this. Who decides when the f- word is in context. And just how can any one determine when it is ok to use it. Either it is ok to use the word or it isn't. This has gone way beyond the original post. I have seen posts locked up for way less then what is going on here now. But I guess It's Brads post so any thing goes. What I can't understand is WHY does every one keep this going. Why is every one turning against their fellow members. Can't you just let this go? Above all try to remember you are dealing with people that have feelings. Think about how you would feel if you where standing up for something you believed in and it got out of hand, Went way beyond what your intentions were. As some one else said we are not perfect, But we do have the ability to forgive. Seems some people have a hard time doing that. Now I ask you did they really do something so bad that they deserve all this punishment. So maybe they said or did it in the wrong way.. Get over it. let life go on..
Reply #89 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Sorry Brad, but I have to agree that the image of that girl is offensive, at least to me. There is absolutely no reason to use children in images that portray them in and indecent manner such as this. That is not an adult, it is no more than a 9-12 year old child to me, and I would need someone to prove to me otherwise.

It has been proven elsewhere that the model is not a child.

Secondly, it's irrelevant.  What differentiates me from those that I exiled is that I am providing you with the right to have an opinion that is different from mine with no consequences. Do you see the distinction?

Despite the fact your view is contrary to mine, I am not calling you names. I am not insulting you. I am not questioning your parenting skills or your background and I am not threatening you with expulsion.

By contrast, the person who posted the original screenshot was subjected to vile personal attack and insults and then, when discussed on the forums, the offended parties immediately decided to "pull their work" as to not support this site. Which is their right.  I am simply making sure that they and others realize that this is a one-time act.

Having watched the WC forums over the years degenerate into a clique of self-important elites, I have seen the tactic used to the point where a small minority has created their own set of rules by using the "do as I say or I will take my stuff and go" threat. It even got to the point where moderators felt bullied into censoring words and eliminating any sort of debate.

Some people here have become so sheltered that they don't even realize that WinCustomize, the world's largest skinning site, isn't even remotely the central place in which people come to discuss customization.  They go to Neowin or AeroXP or any number of other sites because the forums here lack any sort of diversity in thought and belief. And why did that happen? Because of incidents like the one in that other thread.

People who would stifle disent or other points of view also stifle creativity and innovation in thought. The issue isn't that individual screenshot (which as I said I wouldn't have allowed until it had been more covered), the issue presented an opportunity for us to make a stand against the kinds of things that have diluted the community to where people go to other sites to talk about what to submit here.

 

 

Reply #90 from WinCustomize Forums Top
While I respect your opinion Brad, could you point me to where it is proven that this is an adult as I cannot seem to find it any where. Thanks.
Reply #91 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Sorry Brad, but I have to agree that the image of that girl is offensive, at least to me. There is absolutely no reason to use children in images that portray them in and indecent manner such as this. That is not an adult, it is no more than a 9-12 year old child to me, and I would need someone to prove to me otherwise.


Please read the original thread. All of the info you need is there.
Reply #92 from WinCustomize Forums Top
OK, I admit she is 24 as I have now read her bio, but I still disagree with that type of image being shown, it is very sexually suggestive. As she is a model known for her 'schoolgirl looks', I can see why many people also find it offensive. Oh well, back to real life.
Reply #93 from WinCustomize Forums Top
You could go back and read the original thread.

By the way, please don't come back with, "Well I didn't see a threat, those words were never used" The threats are there, they was implied (fairly blatantly) and understood as the author(s) intended. However, they did not get the reaction they hoped for.


I did read it ogman, and you are really full of it. There is this saying ogman "Assumtion is the Mother of all Fuck Ups"

"I'm starting to find this all very bizarre. That girl is clearly mid 20s, to suggest she is 14, or even 9-12 is just completely off the wall.

It's just an adult girl in a bikini. I cannot comprehend what is offensive or indecent about it. Maybe this is a cultural difference? Whatever the reason I find it all very strange."

Amen to that. That's been the most sensible thing I have read all day. Thanks Fuzzy.

Reply #94 from WinCustomize Forums Top


this can help someone lol the screenshot and a shot of the model find in her site

Reply #95 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Bushman - Hey, thanks for quoting that, since I can now see I made a grammatical error.

they was = they were.
Reply #96 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Last thing from me, this whole thing is a total mess..

For me it just worries me that WC will go the way of DA or ThemeXP etc etc in the fact that once you start letting borderline material in, it all goes downhill rather quickly.

I just hope that this isnt the case here. WC is a wonderful place for artists to share their creations, learn , teach and enjoy.

We should really try to make sure it stays that way for all involved.

Reply #97 from WinCustomize Forums Top
WC is a wonderful place for artists to share their creations, learn , teach and enjoy.


totally agree with that

For me the better thing here is the rules/mods/admin. I explain: In more of other website they are mods who make/say what they want or simply nothing. here there are a rules and mods/citizen/in fact all people must respected them. It's a really good thing .
We are humans and we make error/mistakes If there are no rule is the anarchy.
In more here a good work/help/support is appreciated at his just valor.

that was with little good things that we can make a better world.
Reply #98 from WinCustomize Forums Top
i have missed that before put my work on an other site i always stand by the WC mods decisions LOL
Reply #99 from WinCustomize Forums Top
For me it just worries me that WC will go the way of DA or ThemeXP etc etc in the fact that once you start letting borderline material in, it all goes downhill rather quickly.


As was said earlier, this was not about the screenshot, it was the reactions following it that led to this situation. 

We still do not allow "chick" walls, and the moderation hasn't changed from what it's been. 
Reply #100 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Bushman said: 'I did read it ogman, and you are really full of it. There is this saying ogman "Assumtion is the Mother of all Fuck Ups"'

I realize that the people who left are your friends and it's admirable that you come to their defense. However, anyone reading that thread with anything other than completely biased eyes can see what was said that brought on Brad's reaction. Trying to insult me will not change that fact.