Ah, what it must have been like to be a moderator in those days...   

The relevancy of your first paragraph is in doubt, since no one here is claiming parentage of the model in the screenshot. You've created an unrelated hypothetical situation, completely disconnected from anything that actually took place. I always wonder about those who claim that others are "titillated" by something? Personally, I didn't find the screenshot titillating or offensive. I found it a bit childish, sort of like the pictures I see on the wall of the local auto garage or in some schoolboy's locker.

So, violent video games are a "precursor" to serial killing? Coffee is a "gateway" drug? Maybe communion is a "precursor" to alcoholism?

Just a gentle reminder: Western culture is not the only culture on earth. That obvious statement aside, you are not the arbiter of Western culture. If you prefer a community that respects your values alone, perhaps you should start your own site and make it a closed community with strict rules for membership.

The simple fact is that, in the end the, the true issue was not about the content of the picture, the alleged age of the model, the cultural differences that may have caused some to assume a lower age for the model, or whether the picture was offensive/titillating/innocuous. The real issue was that some people tried to impose their will upon the group and the site owner refused to allow that to happen. That, my friend, sounds a whole lot like Western culture to me.

No it isn't....been there, got put through it and know the pain/anguish/frustration first-hand...

Point being: put yourself in the shoes before declaring something harmless/innocuous/irrelevant

It might be all well and good to say so at a safe distance....but wait until someone has similarly pissed in your pocket before you go deciding whether it's harmless or not.



Get real! Going from the sublime to the ridiculous is a poor excuse for a reasoned reply. I'm out of here (this thread)'cause the subject sickens me too much to my stomach to hear/read any more of what's "not wrong" with that pic.

In the hands of and minds of those not properly 'adjusted' or in good 'mental' health as it were.....Yes. Yes. Yes.

For someone as analytical as you come off, I would think you pay more attention to the world around you. Culturally speaking, Japan is one of the first countries to open up clinics for video game addiction and is attempting to deal with the violent tendencies it brings out in some of the youngsters.

Have you ever attended an AA meeting? If so, you may know how many Priests are actually alcoholics, starting with communion wine and alcohol served at other masses and that alcohol is a huge part of that particular culture/lifestyle.

Caffeine is an addictive drug. Look it up. In the hands of someone with an addictive personality, the sudden withdrawal from it without propper supervision and or counseling can lead to the uncontrollable need to replace that addiction with another. Like drugs, alcohol...oh wait...or SEX which is also an addiction for some people..as is pornography...in all it's formats...then there are the fetishes that some porn addicts get into...BDSM, exhibitionism...and others that may or can include child pornography.

And if they can't get the real thing, we can thank the government for allowing virtual child porn to be legal. Which to a lot of people here, the wall in the SS represented. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. How it made them feel should not even be up for analysis, it's their feeling and they own it.

Perhaps when you are dissecting someones feelings or talking about things like addiction and alcoholism you should try spending some extended time trying to understand these things. I've done 18 years of counseling with addicts from all aspects of addiction and all walks of life. A lot of them were sexually abused as children, by adults, parents, etc., that would slowly lead them into it by leaving pictures just like the one on that SS laying around for them to see and talk about. To convince them it was okay. Then the following pics would get more and more revealing.

To my knowledge there were/are SEVERAL issues happening all at once.

Questionable content in the screen.

Questionable reactions from the community.

What some feel is a questionable reaction to it all, from the big guy.

These all seem to be connected, IMHO, no matter how much you want to split them apart. This thread came to be through a chain of action and reaction that started with one SS. You have people who thought the SS should go but agree with Brad; People who thought it was fine and disagree with Brad: and vice versa and sideways. A lot of people with a lot of opinions and ideas. And they go on in this thread about them because some of them don't feel the issue that started this was resolved or resolved correctly.



Watch Dateline. Go to a meeting for sex addicts. They are out there. Some have no control, some struggle with it on a daily basis, and then some are just lucky like you. I've met some who aren't that would give their lives to be free of it. My point is, they exist. I'm weary of the game of words that keeps playing out.

Her DVD (latest) is titled POPO PORN (POPO comes from the Japanese meaning 'kiss')
Wikipedia states she is about portraying a young schoolgirl..not schoolWOMAN or schoolTEACHER. Not all of us are a experts when it comes to judging age, but this model was clearly and definitely attempting to portray a minor. It's her HOOK. It what makes her popular in Japan. It's WHAT she DOES.

Po'

Po' Smedley, starkers -

You and I have vastly different views of the world, and for that I find myself extremely grateful.

I won't drag out personal history issues with you, as I don't think this is the appropriate place. However it may interest you to know that I have a degree in psychology. I mention that only because you seem to think you have a monopoly on understanding of the human psyche.

A worldview that envisions addicts, perverts, and other assorted evil around every corner and focuses on confirming that worldview in everything that one experiences is depressing, isolating, emotionally damaging, and ultimately unfulfilling. Tiny portions of society are afflicted by difficulties that you seem to see in epidemic proportions. Millions upon millions of people play games, drink coffee and alcohol in moderation, and ignore silly pictures posted by testosterone filled males without seeing it as a crisis of the human condition.

By the way, part of any good counseling program for those who have been sexually abused is bringing the person to the understanding that the world is not full of abusers and that living in constant fear of them is unhealthy.

I have no reason to believe that there is value in any further response to this thread, so I leave it to you. I'm going to go enjoy some good food and good music with friends. Perhaps you'll do something equally relaxing with the rest of your day.

Yes, all those Catholic school girl posses by artists & in popular magazines are certainly not anything related to Western culture. Cm'mn get real we perhaps are as exploitive as any culture going.

That's a shame. Because now I really am interested in what you have to say about addictions, alcoholism, and the violence that can be beget through video games. The fact that you have a degree concerns me, since you would have already known that the statement you made is one that psychologists, psychiatrists, and rehab counselors have to deal with on a day to day basis.

I never implied that I had a monopoly on anything, only that I felt you didn't have an understanding of the things you spoke of. You still haven't shown me you do. I also never claimed to be focusing on anything, just that I have counseled and help treat thousands of addicts (from drug,alcohol, gambling, video games to sex, porno and self-mutilation...all which can lead to harm and or death of others and/or the addict) over the past 18 years. And that is just me...ONE counselor in one city in one state in one country. Multiply that by fifty states and allow let's say 6 major cities in each, then do the math for the rest of the world. Then, try, just try to add in all the people who never get help because no one knows, because they hide it, because they can't afford it. You should know this.

I am not about focusing on the doom and gloom in the world. I have to find ways to give these people hope and make them feel better. In the meantime, it's hard to condone or support things that would feed these addictions or just allow themselves to be available to someone who has an addictive personality and hasn't found their crutch yet. The things I pointed out like Dateline are a fact of life and they are the people next door, and pastors, and doctors, and senators, and teachers, and other people with access to children. The meetings for addicts are real. The people are real. I would never talk to someone as if they should trust no one and never leave their homes..but there is no point and no safety in denial either. Again, you should have known this and I am surprised you didn't speak on it or elaborate. IMHO, you give the impression that your therapy is about denial. Again, IMHO.

Finally, the only reason I bring these things up is to make my point. Which, most interestingly, you chose that to be the one thing you didn't address.



This is fact. And when she gets too old to pass herself off as a minor (which she succeeded at here to a certain degree or we wouldn't be having this discussion), she will be out of a job. Out of a job. Because she makes her living doing this. She earns her money portraying schoolGIRLS. She is good enough at it that she has several DVD's, websites, and so on. A Fan Club. She does her job well. And she does it because there is a demand for it and it must be pretty freakin huge to make a living on it. Now...times her by a thousand in Japan, then do each country....then do the math for the supply and demand...then get your head out of the sand. It's proliferant, rampant and worth millions if not 10's or 100's of millions world wide.

Who of us can say how many of the people who view it are 'balanced', 'safe to have around children', 'healthy'...or not to all of these? Does it matter, really? What if only one is truly sick out of 10's of thousands? Would that be better? What if he lives next door to a female relative of yours? A 'minor'? Is it still okay?

I think some people here just had some question and some doubts as to wether this site should support those kinds of images...wether they were in agreement with the admin's or not as to what the picture actually portrayed.

just a little thing in this case
what can think people who had a bad experience with pedophile in the past could think/feel of this SS
(that's my case there are only my wife who know that (now all the world i don't care))

Not really a question

Now the subject of this post is not really the SS but really the unhumanity of any people here who talk about nothing if not try to impose their opinions and hurt others ,and i don't talk about Clwoods or others, i talk about people in this post LOL

Brad talk about this issue and you have nothing better to make after.

Please guys a little humanity is welcome

Twice. Four years at the hands of someone in my own family and 1 year with a so called 'pillar of the community'. That's how I ended up counseling people. I've said how I feel. There is no other way to slice it or dice it. The model does what she does and it worked on enough people here that it all came to this.

Po i don't talk for you my friend but for a pseudo psy!
i know your kindness and i'm sorry for you in my case it's an unknow people at less

@ ogman..your wrong. and before you say wrong about what.. everything. MY opinion.

In reading the thread it seems people that your debating are really speaking from their heart and you are just doing everything you can to oppose their beliefs.

Let me clue you in.. you don't know everything.. no one does, and no one likes a know-it-all.

You would do well to have a little more compassion and understanding when making your points. You come off as very ritcheous and smug.

Degrees in Education are no substitute for real human emotion and understanding.

Frogboy:

With all due respect , I declare bullshit on your 'elitism' point.

What your proposed actions due is remove the drama queening. Which I agree with. But I've seen the elitism on here, and what you're doing isn't gonna do jack shit about that.

Finally something I can agree with you on....

Now maybe we can have some peace without you trying to rekindle the fire everyday

Ta Ta .......

(Although I'm betting you just won't be able to stay away - yanno there is a thing called Obsessive Compulsive Know-it-all-ism .

Oh brother. Slippery slope and now red herring. Once you take logic classes, you see it everywhere.

They are his 'feelings' and 'experiences' and he owns them. They are not meant to draw attention away from the issue, but have everything to do with the issue that began all of this.

You don't have to 'like' them or even 'understand' them, but you could find a more constructive way to acknowledge them if you gave it half an effort.

The sarcasm and smugness has gotten old.

I agree wirh Po on the smug sarcasm that boils under the surface here.

UNDER the surface..?

Not much 'fun', really.

Neither then NOR now.

I am loath to visit DeviantArt, etc now, as I expect various places will be rife with invective and vitriol.  That is the way of the beast.

No-one does [or SHOULD do] website administering as a power-trip, at least certainly not here on Wincustomize.com.  Admins/moderators are selected/invited/promoted in response to their clear and present 'devotion' to the site, skinning, and its community.

When someone is removed from Wincustomize.com it's not a knee-jerk cavalier approach/reaction, but rather an experiential thing defined over several years of [their] interaction on the site.

What interested me, personally in these recent incidents was not 'who was removed' but who subsequently popped in and commented.  Names I hadn't seen for a very long time...who now were saying things along the lines of 'about bloody time this elitism was nobbled'.

Meanwhile, I was taking a few days off at the Bike Racing, a rare break from Wincustomize, and came back to several tomes of discussion/dissent over a single screenshot of something you'd very likely see at the nearest beach.

It irks me personally that I have spent so much time with some of the people involved here [via email] that THAT may be part of the problem  ["remove the screenshot or I'll tell Jafo...he listens to ME"].

I [we] listen to everyone.

Wincustomize.com is a community [in theory] of 2.7 million people, each can have an opinion....that's democratic.  As a 'senior' member of the Community [Apprentice/Journeyman/Wizop/etc] your role is to GUIDE - set an example to those who are new to the site.

That does NOT mean "do it MY way or else", or some such other threat.

I got back from the bikes....and spent the next 4 hours catching up on ALL the past few days of controversy.  I DO that because it is important [to me] to understand clearly where everyone is 'coming from', so the community/guidance can improve.

Look at the last page of this thread.....count the smilies.

Are people being just serious...or just TOO serious?

Serious for me was the Red Flag incident in the Historic bikes when a fallen rider was run-over by another bike [who continued, not falling off] [Turn 4], and was air-lifted to Hospital with 2 cracked vertebrae and a broken sternum. [he'll be OK].

Frogboy's handling of the situation here was right and proper, and, had I the same freedom to remove a Stardock customer from access to product content, etc. as he,  I would have done the same.

Removing those who attempt to force action/opinion upon others is a good thing.  I can't say I've been anywhere else on the net [I do escape sometimes] where I've noticed such elitism/pressure to conform as we all see here, particularly culminating in a flame, etc.

That's going to change...

 

the voice of the reason as always Jafo thanks hope that's calm a little someones.

OH no, tell CL Woods!

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50230413/




Model is a teenager. I understand she finds deviantart to be acceptable but found wc unacceptable.

or not!?!

That is not funny or called for..






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