Frogboy Frogboy

Leave and NEVER come back.

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Leave and NEVER come back.

Those who would impose their wills on us are not welcome here

from WinCustomize Forums

WinCustomize is a PG-13 site.  It is also a site where people are encouraged to discuss issues on skinning and customization in an open environment.

But over the past few yeras, I've watched WinCustomize's forums degrade from being the central point in the skinning community for discussion of skins and themes to being a monolithic forum filled with self-appointed elites who stifle contrarian thoughts and opinions through bullying and intimidation.

That ends now.  When we launched WC2K7, I made clear that I would be stepping in to put an end to the rank elitism that permeates the forums from time to time.

To those who would attack, insult, or demean others for having different points of view I say leave and NEVER come back.  To those who use the arguemnt "This is a family site" as a shield to impose their own brand of tyranny you are not welcome here.

This site is not designed for people who are under the age of 13.  We are not catering to children. We are catering to adults but allow people who are 13 and over.  We allow people to discuss and disagree issues. 

An incident occurred in this thread that provides an opportunity for us to make clear that those who would try to bury discussion with threats will not longer be welcome here.

For too long, people have used the threat of removing their works to crush disent to their opinions. When someone threatens to take their creations and leave the discussion always changes from what was being discussed to trying to convince the offended to stay.  Over time, this has resulted in a great loss in diversity of thought and discussion on this site.

What this community does not need are a handful of self-appointed elitists trying to force their points of view down the throats of others. 

This is a COMMUNITY site. It is not a site for snobby, self important elites who get kicks out of trying to bully others and impose their wills on others.

To any skinner or user woh has a problem with this. Leave and never come back. Remove your things and GO. GO NOW and never ever return.

From here on, if I see someone trying to force their opinion or end a discussion they disagree with by threatening to remove their creations and leave, I will force the issue. I will exile them and have their works deleted from this site. 

We want a community where people feel comfortable discussing any issue that relates to skinning and customization without fear of reprisal, personal attack, or intimidation. 

If someone disagrees with a policy of the site, a decision of the moderators, or has a problem with a user, let it be discussed civily and openly without someone commanding others to adhere to their demands lest they take their things and go.  Because that time is over now.

 

45,608 views 187 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top
You know, I just can't believe that this has gone this far. I can understand people having strong and differing opinions over something like... the death penalty or the abortion issue, but a picture of a woman in a bathing suit? Everyone has the right to their opinion but jiminy christmas this is over a picture that could easily end up on a billboard somewhere! Let it go, ask yourself, is it really gonna be that big of deal in a few days or a week? Is it really worth all the whoopfralla? Bottom line, it's Brads site, and I happen to agree with him. This picture on someone's computer doesn't qualify them as a porn freak or a sexual predator of any kind although it wouldn't surprise me to see this picture on that type of persons computer.
Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hey, Rad... I agree...well, said, kiddo...

I betchya Brad is a WONDERFUL daddy too! Shout
out to Brad's "mini-me"...tee-hee. )

If "shmoopy" rings a bell just ignore that awful,
hollow sound. lol

Me
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well, I've sat here all day reading all the comments, Whether I agree or disagree with what Frogboy said is really no longer important. He owns the site, he can do what he wants. But I still think this whole ordeal should of been dealt with as soon as it started. I saw the post the night before - I closed it without commenting. I've know Boopish a long time- she has never uttered an unkind word or joined in any kind of bullshit in the forum. She was kind to people that didnt deserve it. So I had to ask myself the next day " Why is she so disturbed by this pic "
Clwoods and TAWoods may in your opinion went " Overboard " in there quest for what they deemed 'decency'. Perhaps. I think vStyler's comment is more of a fair assessment.
" Perhaps they thought better of WC, that this was their "home"..as I do and that this site and its moderators held themselves to a higher standard and that maybe their standing in the community actually meant something"
At this point it doesn't even matter to me who was right or wrong. I just sit here in awe at all the ass kissing posts agreeing with Frogboy. I wonder if he took the opposite point of view if we would see an about face of opinions.
A community is made up of free thinking individuals. Brad has stated what he wants. Agree or disagree . But think for yourselves and not act like puppets.
Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I just sit here in awe at all the ass kissing posts agreeing with Frogboy.


I can't speak for the others (though I'm sure they might feel the same way) but I am in no way, shape, or form kissing ANYONE's ass. I just happen to agree with him. You know this could be turned around saying people were kissing the dissenter's asses by agreeing with them about the screenshot in the first place.

I am NO puppet, never have been and never will be. I think on my own and will voice it accordingly. I just happen to think the same way Brad does, nothing more. I've gotten into some head-butting matches with the guys on IRC about how things have been handled (I'm not as passive and lenient as they like to be). Might get some flack for even making this comment, but like I said...no one's puppet.
Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Actually, I've never had the honor of kissing Frogboy's butt (*sigh*) but I'm sure it tastes just like chicken.

I'm so glad I don't run this website...I think I'd be double duct taped and gally wagged.



Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'm a puppet or i'm not a puppet...

Ok Mens and Ladies Stop! Brad is in right when he don't want elite here but a real communauty. Now don't misunderstand what i said. I not agree with leave a site with his work but i respect people who standing up for their opinion.
Now a decision has made by mods here and we must respect that. We can said what we think and our opinion. But now this discussion go on hell and people hurt/fire other people here in my think is not a discussion. And it's not a good way for our communauty.

Now for no misunderstanding:
I don't want to leave this site i'm well here...
I'm not elitic people I'm beginner who want help others when i can. In more i'm simply a cashier with self education.
i have also a daughter (20 month)

I'm simply go here to say that: respect others, respect this site, tell us what you think but if we are not agree with you talk about not hurt others.
I'm really sad to see people hurt other people here.
Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I just *KNOW* I'm gonna screw this up somehow...BUT...

I *think* what Frogboy was trying to convey is just this: Shout and holler...run naked, be free but don't use 'taking away your works' as a tool or THREAT to get what you want. I was guilty of that myself except for the fact that I just took my stuff away (God, I feel old now)...but I could be wrong...because I was a huge cry baby. lol

A forum can go toxic very easily by just one nasty thread...

A smile can go a long way...


And this is a skinning site...not a battle ground...right? Sure, issues come up...again, write one of the mods privately...you'd be pleasantly surprised how accomodating they are...given the tasks they have as it is!




Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I just sit here in awe at all the ass kissing posts agreeing with Frogboy.


This is exactly why I feel I can't openly express my opinions on this board.

I can't speak for the others (though I'm sure they might feel the same way) but I am in no way, shape, or form kissing ANYONE's ass. I just happen to agree with him. You know this could be turned around saying people were kissing the dissenter's asses by agreeing with them about the screenshot in the first place.

I am NO puppet, never have been and never will be. I think on my own and will voice it accordingly. I just happen to think the same way Brad does, nothing more. I've gotten into some head-butting matches with the guys on IRC about how things have been handled (I'm not as passive and lenient as they like to be). Might get some flack for even making this comment, but like I said...no one's puppet.


Ditto!
Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Leave and NEVER come back. Quite a statement. IMHO sounds like a temper tantrum. I'm not taking sides on this one way or the other. I see Brads point. But like he and a lot of other people have said. HANDEL it privately. Ok so maybe they went about it the wrong way. After the first post It should have been worked out in private between Brad, Cindi and the others. What Happened to not making a big public issue of it? What happened to the we are a family here. A true family doesn't turn on each other. OK so they made some demands you thought was bulling. A family or a community doesn't turn on there members. IMHO what you are doing to them is worse than what they said or did. Yes you are the boss, the owner, the big guy. And you are the one to set an example. If you do the very things that you are against, How can you expect any one else to follow the rules. I don't think it was right for you to Ban them from the site. Now they can't even post to defend what they said or did. I ask you to please lock this thread and reinstate them.
Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top
As you said, they are welcome to contact Brad if they wish to further discuss this.  Brad has said his piece, stated the requirements of positive contribution, and any further issues that those 'restricted' might have, can be handled in private, via email.
Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top
This is exactly why I feel I can't openly express my opinions on this board.


Was your name mentioned in my post ? Nope.
But what Frogboy did say is I have a right to my opinion. As long as I dont say im leaving IF you dont do it my way. Well, thats my opinion.
Where were a lot of you when the whole other thread was going on an on ? Nowhere to be found - a lot of you wait to see where the wind blows. Then you chime in.

My opinion is still the same as far as that Wallpaper goes - I dont care if its a photo ( maybe or maybe not ) of a 24 year old Japanese model. Her whole persona is to look like a child and if you all read Po' Smedleys google search - this person is handled by " ChildStar.com.whatever " She " Degrades" herself to gain popularity and if you look at that pic carefully - she is in a kiddie blow up wading pool wearing a child-like bathing suit. Maybe no one cares - but its still an iffy picture to be on a site that even I thought had class.
Men and women will never see eye to eye about these type of issues. I personally wouldnt support a movie star that debases women.

A year ago there was a post that the Title was " I Am Pissed "
A moderator edited out the word pissed with ****** and wrote: I made this forum "user friendly" as children visit this site.
No wonder I remained confused if this is or is not a family site - but Frogboy has just stated that it is a PG13 site so now it is crystal clear that I may say Im pissed and not be lynched.

PS: For the record - I have not had any email chit chat with CL Woods since last October or so ... so its not like were thick as thieves here. Maybe Im missing something because I never saw her say " Do as I want or Im leaving - I saw her say that she would like an administrator help her with removal of her skins - and then they were deleted. Betty quietly deleted hers. I found out only after the fact as I have done skins to match her blinds...I have no choice but to remove those as they are irrelevant without the matching blinds. But thats life. I still dont like the way this whole thing feels but again - thats tough. But at least I know I won't ever do any ass kissing . Which is pretty much what an email I recieved this AM was telling me in regards to this matter.
Sorry, no smooches from me.
Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Ironically this is exactly the type of post and responses that make this community work ~!~ People are voicing their opinion, they differ greatly, no one is threatening to leave over it or demand that you must feel the way they do. If you now dislike someone as a result of their opinion or lose friends as a result than all I can say is I am sorry that an opinion based on a ss can so change your view of someone that you may have once called friend. That certainly narrows your world. IMHO there has been nothing said by anyone in either thread that would cause me to no longer like them.
I do agree with someone standing up for what they believe in. I am where I am today because I never took it laying down, even made a few enemies but my friends would never turn on me because they disagree with my opinion on a topic like this. Nor would I be accused of being a pedophile or encouraging them.
And @@@kissing only works if your going to get something out of it. I certainly am not. I am only a customer here. My posts get no special treatment & I am 1 of thousands. These lips have never kissed anyone's @ss. I don't need to. And that remark still doesn't change my opinion, I may not agree with it but it is yours and so as an adult I respect you enough & have a tough enough skin that something like that can not get under it.
I agree with Brad because it took years of me floating around these forums before I felt comfortable enough to post an opinion on these boards without fear of being torn apart. And the threats, how quickly a friendship could be destroyed and people leaving as a result assured me that this was not a pleasant place to be. Oh its not perfect..You can't find perfection anywhere but it feels great to know that the owner of this site cares enough to make sure that everyone gets heard and it matters not how drastically your opinion may differ.

It's My Secret

Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What happened to the we are a family here. A true family doesn't turn on each other. OK so they made some demands you thought was bulling. A family or a community doesn't turn on there members. IMHO what you are doing to them is worse than what they said or did. Yes you are the boss, the owner, the big guy. And you are the one to set an example. If you do the very things that you are against, How can you expect any one else to follow the rules. I don't think it was right for you to Ban them from the site. Now they can't even post to defend what they said or did. I ask you to please lock this thread and reinstate them.


I totally agree with this. I have been thinking about this situation for two days, thinking of what to say, the above sums it up for me. Ever since I joined this site, I always heard on the forums, and from other members, that this was a family oriented site. Everyone keeps saying that this is not about the screenshot in question, but it really is. If anyone were to actually sit down and look at it for a few minutes, you would see that this supposed "Woman" does in fact look like a ten year old Girl. Regardless of what other people in other countries feel is appropriate, a few members of this site feel that this screenshot should have been removed.

This whole mess could have been avoided if the Admins and Members were able to reach a compromise, and the model could have been sufficiently covered. Leave and Never Come Back is totally harsh, and people always deserve a second chance, especially if they were not known to cause trouble. This website is a Stardock website, and Brad is the owner, and he can do whatever he feels is right. But everyone makes mistakes, and no one on this earth is perfect, even corporate CEO's.

Everyone should take a few deep breaths and relax!! From what I have seen over the past few years, Frogboy has shown people compassion, where others have not on this site. So why not put this issue to bed, and give some a second chance Brad. And lets let this community get back to being a family and heal from this nightmare.

Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Man what a mess this has turned out to be. I'm very sorry the Woods and Boopish decided to pull their work from here, I will miss their work here. Brad you were wrong in your comments about Cindy "bullying" you. I also read all the comments that have been made about this and I disagree with you Brad. Having said that I'll have to talk to Cindi via email about what I feel about her and her husbands decisions.

As far as the pic goes it does leave a lot to the imagination which unfortunitelly can be taken the wrong way. Child porn is a evil and should not be tolerated.

I think that this was handled very wrong on both sides, I'm a firm believer in private messaging someone if I personally have an issue with something or someone but that's me.

Brad you definitlly need to work on your people skills because at times you come across as such an ass. You may own this site but it's the people that support this site that keep it up and going. I hope that the lessens learned here are applied other wise this site may lose more people.
Reply #65 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Oh its not perfect..You can't find perfection anywhere but it feels great to know that the owner of this site cares enough to make sure that everyone gets heard and it matters not how drastically your opinion may differ.

It's My Secret


Then Why did he ban them?
Reply #66 from WinCustomize Forums Top
In response to vStyler:

"middle aged decent folks"

Oh, so if I'm middle-aged and disagree with you or your friends that would make me? What the heck has age got to do with it? How is threatening to leave if you don't get your way and indication of middle-age OR decency? Sounds more to me like a lost 6 year old taking their ball home because the other children wouldn't let them have their way.

"this site and its moderators held themselves to a higher standard"

Yeah, it was a higher standard as long as YOU agreed with it, right? Everything must conform to YOU, right? Do you actually hear yourself?

"dealt with more professionally"

Meaning the way YOU would deal with it? Uh-huh. I sense a pattern here.

"Lastly , saying "just dont look" is a lame retort. People patronize certain communities so they dont have to duck and dodge what they see and dont see."

You have seriously got to be kidding me! This site displays works of an artistic nature. People will always see something on a site such as this that they don't like and may even be offended by. I frequently come here and see wallpapers displaying some violent scene that I would not want on my computer. Let me tell you how I handle that; I click my mouse button and move on!!! I don't run crying to admins, I don't fire off emails, I don't threaten to leave, and I don't try and make everyone think like I do. Really, it's not that hard to do, you should try it. If you are not capable of that and you feel that you have to "duck and dodge" too much, then you should not patronize the site. However, I think you will probably run out of places to go in fairly short order.








Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Because they chose to leave over it...not continue to discuss it, privately or otherwise. And the moment that they said they were leaving the whole topic changed to...please don't go the ss has been removed. People had to apologize for stating their opinion and friendships changed & feelings hurt. It was no longer a discussion that would have allowed an agreement, understanding, agreeing to disagree or removal of ss. It became about...if I don't agree then I leave...this occurred all within a few hours after the first moderator & staff member posted on the thread...

Again.. if I don't agree I leave...
Harsh...you bet..considering years worth of friendships are wrapped up here on both sides.

And so is Brads response ...harsh..you bet..because little by little others take the same stance when in a disagreement and these boards go back to the way they were. A place where insults, threats and fights are in almost every thread.

It's My Secret
Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Was your name mentioned in my post ? Nope.


Fairyy~~ cmon, That's really passive aggresive. The fact is you didn't mention anyone's name, which is good and without a doubt the best way to handle it. However, labelling something like agreeing with Brad as "Ass Kissing" is the same as saying that agreeing the other way is....well, also "Ass Kissing". I think it's a way of getting to the people that aren't agreeing in the other direction. I'm agreeing with Brad because I'm also a CEO and understand very well where he's coming from. It's as simple as that. I can also see how some people could be offended by the pic. It's simple as that. HOWEVER, when someone says, "I'll take my toys and go home if we don't play my way." that's called manipulation. Something I also see as unacceptable. If I allowed people in my workforce to manipulate me, we might as well take up all of our corporate policies books and shred them because they are no longer official or effective. The net effect is that all of the other employees are now jeopardized and don't know which end is up and creating a lot of confusion. Hence the old saying, "Too many chiefs and no Indians."

Reply #69 from WinCustomize Forums Top
In response to Fairyy~

"I just sit here in awe at all the ass kissing posts agreeing with Frogboy. I wonder if he took the opposite point of view if we would see an about face of opinions."

Well, if we follow your playground logic, then if he held the opposite opinion then you would be kissing his ass.

I'm sure you meant to demean others with that comment, but let me suggest that you demean yourself buy showing that you simply cannot stand the idea of not getting your way at every turn. In life, this happens and it's best to deal with it maturely. The owner of the site has stated his policy. Some people have agreed with him and some disagreed. Those who disagree can accept that the policy or discontinue patronage of the site. Why bother slinging insults at people who will either be fellow members of the community, if you stay, or who will remember you as childish and undignified, if you go?
Reply #70 from WinCustomize Forums Top
In response to Bushman:

"You may own this site but it's the people that support this site that keep it up and going."

I think that's a commonly held misconception on the internet. In fact, the people are here because the site is here. Without any segment of those people, if the site is still a well run, good quality site, more people will come in to replace the ones who left.

The fact is that Brad had no choice. Some people decided to try and impose their will upon the community and used a common threat, that of leaving if the site administration did not do what they demanded. I have seen site owners merely ignore this type of threat and assume that the individuals would be good at their word and leave when they did not get what they wanted. However, as Brad is probably aware, the type of person who makes that threat usually does not actually leave. Instead, they stay and continue their demands, only more frequently, more vehemently, and in a more aggressive manner. Brad's action avoided all of that and made it clear that no one will control his site through intimidation.

I'd say his "people skills" are just fine.
Reply #71 from WinCustomize Forums Top
RadialFX: Fairyy~~ cmon, That's really passive aggresive


Exactly - you didn't get all antsy about my statement because you arent just chiming in. I saw a few posts that I could tell the person probably never even read all the posts , hadnt seen the picture but just wanted to take the opportunity to jump in and just agree with Brad. So those that are here just to kiss up will question my post won't they ?

The " she must be referring to me thingie "
In the end a lot of long time members will lose a something after this incident.

I know I have already lost way more than can ever be recovered.

When brad first wrote this post I was taken back by the harsh punishment - I still am. I've seen worse in the years I've been here. I've seen exiled people reinstated and promoted to Journeymen.

This punishment does not fit the 'Crime'

But sadly - I am no longer friends with some of the people involved and nothing can change that for me now.

I will not be made to feel guilty by anyone.
Reply #72 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Ogman: I'm sure you meant to demean others with that comment, but let me suggest that you demean yourself buy showing that you simply cannot stand the idea of not getting your way at every turn. In life, this happens and it's best to deal with it maturely. The owner of the site has stated his policy. Some people have agreed with him and some disagreed. Those who disagree can accept that the policy or discontinue patronage of the site. Why bother slinging insults at people who will either be fellow members of the community, if you stay, or who will remember you as childish and undignified, if you go?


Have I said I was leaving ? Not that I saw - or is this wishful thinking on your part?

My opinion remains the same and NOWHERE did I ever try to force it on anyone. I have always held that opinion of any wall that degrades the women. This site is 99% men....every since Ive been here I have never hesitated to leave a comment on a screen shot that offended me. But not once I have threatened to leave over it.


A lot of people never show there face in these forums to even attempt to help anyone but let Brad write a Forum and its a full house. What do you know..

Reply #73 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Can some one show me where this threat was, said or written?
Reply #74 from WinCustomize Forums Top
hmmm..I want to say something here...but...erghhh...nevermind...
Reply #75 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Can some one show me where this threat was, said or written?


You could go back and read the original thread.

By the way, please don't come back with, "Well I didn't see a threat, those words were never used" The threats are there, they was implied (fairly blatantly) and understood as the author(s) intended. However, they did not get the reaction they hoped for.