Frogboy Frogboy

In memory of September 11th

In memory of September 11th

A tribute

Five years ago on September 11, 2001, 19 men boarded four planes in the United States with the intention of hijacking them and crashing them into important buildings with the hope of killing as many people as possible.

Three of those planes made it to their targets killing over 3,000 people. The fourth one crashed after passengers attempted to retake the plane after learning the fate of the other three planes.

For Americans, September 11th marked a major turning point for how the country viewed the world. For people outside the United States, the choices and response to September 11th has stirred a great deal of debate.  Even within the United States, there is a great deal of disagreement over how best to continue to carry out the response to the terrorist attacks and the growing movement of violent Islamic radicalism.

The people who attacked the United States were part of a terrorist organization called Al Qaeda. A radical Islamic group dedicated to restoring the historic caliphate that once existed from Spain to the far east, Al Qaeda considered the United States as an obstacle to their goals of turning "moderate" Muslim states such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt into fundamentalist Islamic Republics modeled after then Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. Their belief was that if the US presence in the middle east as well as its support of countries such as Saudi Arabia and Israel could be removed that they moved one step closer to their goal. They believed, wrongly, that the US response would be to withdraw its presence from the middle east just as it had done so in Somalia in the mid 1990s.

On this day, we at this site give our thoughts to the families of the men and women who died on that day. And we support the valiant men and women in the armed forces from the United States and other countries who are working to put an end to organizations and movements that support the indiscriminate wholesale annihilation of innocents.

We hope the world does not forget 9/11.  We certainly will not.

53,758 views 137 replies
Reply #101 Top
Apparently you had someone write your comment as it is plain to see that you can't read. Stupidity, ignorance and disrespect reigns. Do you think discussing, solving, or knowing about all these accusations, statements and or facts will bring one ounce of comfort to the bereaved?
Comforting, remebrance and love is the theme of this thread. Oh, that's right, you either can't read or can't comprehend what you do read.


All im saying is that the americans shouldnt feel victim to muslim's. They should feel to their own ignorance of "It'll never happen to America" when planely (excuse the pun) it can happen to anybody...
Reply #102 Top

Had this been my thread and not Frogboy's I would have removed any and all such comments by the naive and socially inept who have shown exactly zero compassion and/or respect for the lives lost on 9/11.

People have the right to expression their opinions, even unpopular, idiotic opinions. As long as they're not violating one of the stated rules on WinCustomize.com, they're free to post their dribble.

Reply #103 Top
Hi all,
My wife suffers from schizophrenia. Even though she comes up with some great delusions sometimes, she has never once thought of this conspiracy!!! It is truly amazing that some people on this board are acting like terrorists to this day!! I agree with all those that are coming here or have already came and left to pay their respects to all of those people who have died from and because of this event in our history.

I strongly disagree with those that have posted in defiance, after the request that we keep this thread about the conspiracies of 9-11 off. You should be treated as terrorists and deserve nothing but shame and pity. Everyone in the world is/was affected in some way by what happened on 9-11, however to come here and create chaos in this thread is straight terrorism. You are creating doubt for some and re-opening wounds for many others.

Brad, I do agree with your comment of allowing stupidity, (It is in the first ammendment rights.) however I would strongly disagree that these people should be allowed to terrorize others on this board with thier extreme rhetoric BS. These terrorists need to be put in their own thread and allow us that are here to mourn that fateful day in our own way without the hurt, fear and shame that these people are causing.

Speedy
Reply #104 Top
Firstly, I wish to say my heart goes out to all the people affected by the September 11 tragedy. Any war will have its 'casualties' and you can bet your boots that the war was already going on between America and the Muslim fundamentalist groups well before the date of 9/11...if you know anything about the Middle Eastern/American Global political history,thats a given. These people were the casualties of an already existant warfare.

Personally I have my own 'conspiracy' theory. The fundamentalists have gotten exactly what they wanted...a nation that in 5 years has reformed its constitution out of fear...a nation that has cut the civil liberties of its populace...a nation that has so effectively put most of its political energy into fighting a war far from home that it is unable to efficiently cope with managing its own internal crisis whether that be natural disaster or combatting the highest levels of drug warfare, violence and crime. If these terrorists planned on creating subterfuge and letting a country eat itself out from within, then I often wonder what they are thinking as they look at the state of things now within America.

I was horrified and appalled to tears by the September 11 disaster up until December 24, 2004 when I was staying in Thailand on vacation. That day almost 227,000 people lost their lives in front of me. I can tell you honestly, that the experience put a new perspective on 'disaster' for me.

After that experience, the term 'GOD BLESS AMERICA' seemed somewhat egocentric. 'GOD BLESS HUMANITY' seems somehow more appropriate.
Reply #105 Top
Wow...all this name calling and posturing...why am I not surprised.

"People have the right to expression their opinions, even unpopular, idiotic opinions. As long as they're not violating one of the stated rules on WinCustomize.com, they're free to post their dribble."

That statement includes every last one of you on both sides of this issue...with the exception of those who actually came here to pay respect to the people murdered on 9/11 regardless of your views and didn't resort to name calling.

So many closed minds here...its no wonder the world is in such a state of chaos.

Not one...not one single person here knows what really happened on 9/11 other than what you think you saw that day...you can speculate all you want...you can have all the theories you want...and that goes for BOTH sides of this issue whether your a so-called conspiracy nut or a Government disinformation nut...none of you will arrive at the real truth. Popular Mechanics doesn't really know and Changelink doesn't really know...each is sprinkled with an equal amount of dribble & credibility. So all this antisocial name calling and finger pointing is so counter productive it isn't even funny and only serves to further divide an already divided people. Get over yourselves, we're all in this together people.

I watched the video account and I read Popular Mechanics account and both sides...not just one side...of this issue have credible reasons for believing what they believe...so why is it people can't discuss things on an intelligent level and at least attempt to arrive at the truth without all the name calling? No ones right...no ones wrong...somewhere in the middle...that part between conspiracy and disinformation...is the truth. Get past your differences and at least attempt to find it.

"The mind is like a parachute...it works best when opened"
Reply #106 Top
To Citizen DWFII the only morons are the ones that chose to be unknowledeable! Knowledge is Power! Plus I am from Ohio! First to PICHIN, MadMike25,Whitewolf07, we are doing this world a service because do you think that anyone will just come out and say what the truth is, I think not! Like the ones in power will call a public conference and say "AMERICA WE DID IT". We have strong points, and some people in this thread cannot take that! They are not ready! Just Like Morpheus told Neo: Some are ready, and some are not. It's just too much for them. Once again. if I may point out, I have nothing but deep condolences for the ones that lost there loved ones! Once the people are in the know, then nothing can stop a whole bunch of US Citizens from knowing what this is all about! I am not going to insult anyone cause we are all adults here, I think!
Reply #107 Top
There is no signigficant difference between those who believe these conspiracy theories (partisan conspiracy theories included) and those who said, on Sept 12, "America deserved it." In fact, it is some of, if not mostly, the same people.

All this pretentious and pompous posturing about "sympathy" and "condolences" is just that...posturing. 911 isn't, and its anniversaries aren't, about the tragedy (that's self-evident)...what it's really about is the infamy (and some of that in our own midst,) and the savagery, and the clash of brutal reality with head-in-the-sand self-delusion masquerading as altruism and benevolance.

It reminds me of the guy who says he loves his wife yet berates her in public to make himself look good...and then comes back and tells her how sorry he is for the shame and humiliation that she suffered. BS!!! That's not love and what we see here is neither patriotism nor is is sympathy. It's self-congratulation.
Reply #108 Top
It would seem that "madmike25" & "pichin" spend WAY too much time in front of their tv...For an all volunteer army that makes it VERY difficult to enter without a diploma(felons need not apply), to make a remark re: intelligence is uummm...unintelligent. Where on earth did one scrounge that "factoid" from?
the average IQ in the Army now is horribly low

I know 65000 men and women that could disabuse you of such ignorance.
Reply #109 Top
From the editor of Popular mechanics...

September 12, 2006 -- ON Feb. 7, 2005, I became a member of the Bush/Halliburton/Zionist/CIA/New World Order/Illuminati conspiracy for world domination. That day, Popular Mechanics, the magazine I edit, hit newsstands with a story debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories. Within hours, the online community of 9/11 conspiracy buffs - which calls itself the "9/11 Truth Movement" - was aflame with wild fantasies about me, my staff and the article we had published. Conspiracy Web sites labeled Popular Mechanics a "CIA front organization" and compared us to Nazis and war criminals.
For a 104-year-old magazine about science, technology, home improvement and car maintenance, this was pretty extreme stuff. What had we done to provoke such outrage?

Research.

Conspiracy theories alleging that 9/11 was a U.S. government operation are rapidly infiltrating the mainstream. These notions are advanced by hundreds of books, over a million Web pages and even in some college classrooms. The movie "Loose Change," a slick roundup of popular conspiracy claims, has become an Internet sensation.

Worse, these fantasies are gaining influence on the international stage. French author Thierry Meyssan's "The Big Lie," which argues that the U.S. military orchestrated the attacks, was a bestseller in France, and his claims have been widely repeated in European and Middle Eastern media. And recent surveys reveal that, even in moderate Muslim countries such as Turkey and Jordan, majorities of the public believe that no Arab terrorists were involved in the attacks.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion," Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was fond of saying. "He is not entitled to his own facts." Yet conspiracy theorists want to pick and choose which facts to believe.

Rather than grapple with the huge preponderance of evidence in support of the mainstream view of 9/11, they tend to focus on a handful of small anomalies that they believe cast doubt on the conventional account. These anomalies include the claim that the hole in the Pentagon was too small to have been made by a commercial jet (but just right for a cruise missile); that the Twin Towers were too robustly built to have been destroyed by the jet impacts and fires (so they must have been felled by explosives), and more. If true, these and similar assertions would cast serious doubt on the mainstream account of 9/11.

But they're not true. Popular Mechanics has been fact-checking such claims since late 2004, and recently published a book on the topic. We've pored over transcripts, flight logs and blueprints, and interviewed more than 300 sources - including engineers, aviation experts, military officials, eyewitnesses and members of investigative teams.

In every single case, we found that the very facts used by conspiracy theorists to support their fantasies are mistaken, misunderstood or deliberately falsified.

Here's one example: Meyssan and hundreds of Web sites cite an eyewitness who said the craft that hit the Pentagon looked "like a cruise missile with wings." Here's what that witness, a Washington, D.C., broadcaster named Mike Walter, actually told CNN: "I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up. It's really low.' And I saw it. I mean, it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon."

We talked to Walter and, like so many of the experts and witnesses widely quoted by conspiracy theorists, he told us he is heartsick to see the way his words have been twisted: "I struggle with the fact that my comments will forever be taken out of context."

Here's another: An article in the American Free Press claims that a seismograph at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory picked up signals indicating that large bombs were detonated in the towers. The article quotes Columbia geologist Won-Young Kim and certainly looks authoritative. Yet the truth on this issue is not hard to find. A published Lamont-Doherty report on the seismic record of 9/11 says no such thing. Kim told Popular Mechanics that the publication's interpretation of his research was "categorically incorrect." Yet the claim is repeated verbatim on more than 50 Web sites as well as in the film "Loose Change."

Every 9/11 conspiracy theory we investigated was based on similarly shoddy evidence. Most of these falsehoods are easy to refute simply by checking the original source material or talking to experts in the relevant fields. And yet even the flimsiest claims are repeated constantly in conspiracy circles, passed from Web site to book to Web site in an endless daisy chain. And any witness, expert - or publication - that tries to set the record straight is immediately vilified as being part of the conspiracy.

The American public has every right to ask hard questions about 9/11. And informed skepticism about government and media can be healthy. But skepticism needs to be based on facts, not fallacies. Unfortunately, for all too many, conspiratorial fantasies offer a seductive alternative to grappling with the hard realities of a post-9/11 world.

James B. Meigs is editor-in-chief of Popular Mechanics. The magazine's new book, "Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand up to the Facts," is just out.





WWW Link
Reply #110 Top
Like I said..dribble on both sides...seems like people are more interested in poking holes in the other sides accounts and questions rather than uncovering the truth.
Reply #111 Top
I agree with most of what you said Web. I believe in truth and having an open mind. As a Pisces, I have no choice but to be open minded, it's in my DNA. I do however believe that there is a time and place for everything, and that our right to our opinions should not exceed the bounds of decency. I believe everyone should be able to discuss their theories, ideas and thoughts about anything, but not everywhere, all the time. Another thread would have been a far more appropriate place to discuss these matters than in a thread that is designed to acknowledge the loss of so many of our fellowman, and to mourn their loss.
There are 364 other days of the year the theories could be discussed, and in another thread. Having an open mind and speaking our mind does not mean our brains and manners have to fall out of our heads. I don't want to be the one telling someone that lost a loved one on 9/11 that all these people were more interested in sensationalism and their own egos and thoughts than to the actual loss of human life. It is truly sad.
Reply #113 Top
I agree Cindi
Reply #114 Top
It has nothing to do with sensationalism, it has to do with one word "TRUTH"! I am tired of the lies that surround everything here in the states! For the the person that said that Popular Mechanics put all this stuff to rest, they are part of the problem! Like I said before, no one will put the truth in books, the news, or the magazines! They will put what they feel you should read! Common Sense people that is all that it takes! Nothing special, just pure common sense! I am not asking you to do nothing else! Cindi you are right about one thing, it wasn't the time or the place for us to speak about this, but some of us are really pissed about the situation, and we are trying to find the answers the best way that we know how! It just plain out sucks that this is the way the world turns!
Reply #115 Top

Perhaps it's just people's unwillingness to accept that when it comes down to it some people on this planet are just plain evil bastards...and they are ashamed to be the same species of human 'virus'.

Dreaming up some form of conspiracy saves them from direct inclusion/association as they can hide behind the concept of it all being down to an 'evil entity', be it extremist religion sect, nefarious black helicopter Junta or Capitalist pig Corporation.

As long as it's not simply a person [just like them] that demonstrates how vile 'humanity' can actually be.

Sadly, this pre-occupation with conspiracy is a direct by-product of the global communication age.  Unfortunately the ease of dissemination of 'information' does not come with [as Penn and Teller might put it] a Bullshit filter.  All that is needed for a conspiracy theorem to thrive is a set of inaccuracies and errors packaged and distributed under the guise of 'truth'.

As long as this information is at odds with reality those gullible enough will determine that what they saw did NOT happen, but what some anonymous creature told them on the net - DID.

I recently heard reference to a possible reason for this.  The current 'generation' has not had to live through actual conflict of national significance aka war [eg. most recently Vietnam], 'only' has what would classify as 'Police action/s', so must fabricate angst as some form of justification that their 'times' are equally significant.

Now...you must not 'believe me' as I, too am 'some anonymous creature on the net', m'kay?

Ever since that radio play of War Of The Worlds the gullible public have been wont to run around screaming 'the sky is falling'.

I'm sure there's a theory 'out there' that Martians really DID land...and it really WAS a newsflash.  [I bet H.G. Wells is a CIA plant, too]..

Just remember that 'out there' is often simply just 'out there' amongst the fairies...

Reply #116 Top
Havent any of you read the studies about how badly the building was made? If I was designing and building such an inportant building I would have made sure all the safety features were top class.
---pheonixsword

I think someone is forgetting a little thing called "The attempt in 1993". It held up pretty well then.
I mean, when you have to fly passenger jets into a structure to bring it down, I'd think that says a lot for its designers and builders.

Reply #117 Top
This is a rememberance thread people ! although the whole "undermining the government" quotes are very worring in a democracy you are supposed to question your government but then America is a republic not a democracy
Reply #118 Top
You People Should stop Arguing, This is so stupid it already happened and theres nothing we can do about it, just pray for the ones we lost and be better persons ourselves, Also Respect other people Opinions, There are lots of conspiracies and i think we have enough brain to decide for ourselves in what to believe and what not and if you dont like it just keep your mouth shut and let everyone believe what they want. Religion isnt something bad or makes people bad, There are lots of Hard workers with different religions out there that are busting their butts to bring dinner to their families and they suddenly arrive home and see in the news that once again their religion is being attacked, not just by terrorist attacks but all of us that wont respect their religion and blame them for things they didnt even did. So we should stop saying all this crap. we cant blame,judge or punish anyone just cause we "Think" So or we dont have something to prove it we should blame the ones who commited the crime and pray for their souls. Anyways How long this is gonna last? Be a good American and respect everyones religion and ideas otherwise we'll be creating a war ourselves.
Oh and i really belive theres a damn face in the smoke in the pic.
Reply #119 Top
"Remembering" is all very well and good but the problem is that those who need a special day to remember are extremely likely, the rest of the year, to forget the very reasons we needed a "remembrance day" in the first place.

And if this is truely a "remembrance thread" we all of us need to "remember" why this happened, and who is responsible, and that if we let ourselves be diverted from reality, it will happen again, and again...and again.

And if you can't...or won't...remember why, we're likely to have a lot more remembrance days on our calendar. "Remembrance days" that, if history is any example, we pass over and ignore except when they are part of a three day weekend.

And clearing up some loose ends...no changes have been made to the Constitution in the wake of 911--that takes, as anyone truly familiar with the way our government works, a nationwide, state-by-state referendum--a Constitutional amendment.

What's more, the civil liberties that have supposedly been abridged were, in many cases, already abridged to fight the war on drugs or to curtail the handiwork of the Mafia. And although there's been a lot of hysteria and teeth-gnashing on the subject...it is for the most part, ill-informed, chicken-little-the-sky-is-falling, delirium. During the War Between the States, civil rights were curtails far more stringently than has even been suggested, currently...on both sides...and somehow the Republic survived.

Isn't that strange....?
Reply #120 Top
"The people who attacked the United States were part of a terrorist organization called Al Qaeda".

The World Trade Center was exactly what it called itself- A "trade center for the WORLD" Thus, Al Qaeda did not attack only the United States, but all of the countries that had offices based in 2 buildings in NY. The tragedy was international and planetary and not just a national one.
Reply #121 Top

Like I said..dribble on both sides...seems like people are more interested in poking holes in the other sides accounts and questions rather than uncovering the truth.

The truth is already known.  The original news article presents the facts. Not fantasy. Facts. These are of historic record. It's not what we think or speculate what happened. It is what happened.

Arguing that the events of 9/11 were something different than the documented facts is akin to arguing that space aliens attacked Pearl Harbor in planes disguised to look like Japanese zeroes.  It's ludicrious.

Reply #122 Top
The World Trade Center was exactly what it called itself- A "trade center for the WORLD" Thus, Al Qaeda did not attack only the United States, but all of the countries that had offices based in 2 buildings in NY. The tragedy was international and planetary and not just a national one.


This is sophistry..it is a red herring that allows folks to make something into something it is not...something, perhaps, a little more to their liking.

But it ignores the facts...the plane into the pentagon and the people on-board) and the plane that crashed into a field in Pennsylvania--intended for the capital. Nothing international about these two targets and yet part and parcel of a planned and concerted attack on the US

In fact bin Laden and Zawahiri both have said that the attack on the World Trade Center was aimed at US financial power.

And it also ignores the fact that victims from foreign countries don't even begin to tally up to the "victims" we "remember" in this thread--the ones who died in a brutal and evil (yes, exists, Virginia) attack as well as the firemen and first responders and even those who helped clean up the site...who will suffer for the rest of their live from respiratory problems, if not nightmares.

Self-delusion never helps...it is Custer, at Little Big Horn, gibbering, with a blanket over his head, as the tomahawk descends.

And if we are to remember then let us remember well...remember why and who and when. Remember Pearl Habor, Remember the Alamo. Remember the World Trade Center.
Reply #123 Top
The truth is already known. The original news article presents the facts. Not fantasy. Facts. These are of historic record. It's not what we think or speculate what happened. It is what happened.
Arguing that the events of 9/11 were something different than the documented facts is akin to arguing that space aliens attacked Pearl Harbor in planes disguised to look like Japanese zeroes. It's ludicrious.


Everyone is entitled to believe what they want...if believing the "Official" account makes someone happy and content by all means believe away...but it by no means makes you right and everyone else wrong...and that works both ways. As far as the news or politicians telling us the truth and giving us "all" the facts...give me a break...they're track record is pitiful. I take anything they say with a grain of salt. And just because I don't believe everything they say, I certainly don't jump on every so-called conpiracy theory story as being factual either. And trying to discuss things like this in a forum is just a train wreck waiting to happen...it will only end badly.

And you mean to tell me it wasn't space aliens!? Now that..is just wrong!
Reply #124 Top
WebGizmos said:
Everyone is entitled to believe what they want...


One can take tolerance of other's opinions only so far. There is a
Reply #125 Top
Everyone is entitled to believe what they want...


Of course, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But opinions are like "backsides" (to use a polite eupheimism)--everyone has one but not all are worth sniffing.

And when an opinion comes with a little foil cap to prevent your thoughts from being picked up by the government...well, tell me, friend, where can you hide? Where in the world?