JillUser JillUser

So, I'm Going to Hell

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So, I'm Going to Hell

from JoeUser Forums
I have been told at different times over my entire life that I am going to Hell. I wasn't baptized as a baby= going to hell. Don't belong to a church = going to hell. Lived with my fiancee before we got married = going to hell.

I personally don't see how any of those things would warrant my being sent to eternal damnation. I am a good person. I treat others as I would have them treat me. My family means the world to me. I am respectful of my parents. I have never harmed another. I donate time and money to charity. I help friends and family whenever possible.

I am open minded about religion. I have not been convinced yet that I belong with any particular organized religion. That doesn't mean I am an atheist though.

I guess I have always wondered how an all knowing God could look at me and send me to Hell. I know many catholics that play by the rules of the church but aren't more loving or caring than I. Why would God accept them and damn me?

So I go on living, learning and being thankful in the ways that fit me. I tend to think that God will judge me on those merits.
religion
20,093 views 181 replies
Reply #126 from JoeUser Forums Top

It was a response to LovesBlessing's response, A response that did not belittle or make fun of anyone's beliefs but simply outline their's and why. I think it is obvious that you threw out ignorant statements and *attacked* first.

So if you stab me in the leg, it's OK For me to cut your head off? I am missing your logic here.......  But, the problem is, if you think that I was attacking anything, you are completely wrong.

Just because I fail to buy into the "oversoul" theory does not mean I have blinders on, and I think I have proven that *you* belittled first. You are just inflamed because you received a dose of your own medicine. And seriously, do you really care if *I* take you seriously? I certainly do not feel likewise.

Read what you said again, you said " however there is merit in your beliefs especially since it causes you to attempt to be a better person. That I think they are silly and shallow and not unlike believing in "The Force" is not relevant to the fact that it makes try to be a better person" which shows that you have no respect for other religions, and that you have "blinders" on.  If you find saying that somebody has blinders on is "belittling" you need to open your mind up a bit more.  I never slammed on Christianity.  I never said that your beliefs are without merit or "wrong".  However, you do prove that you are a hypocrite telling everyone else that they are judgmental, attacking, and belittling even though you are doing it yourself.

Reply #127 from JoeUser Forums Top
So if you stab me in the leg, it's OK For me to cut your head off? I am missing your logic here....... But, the problem is, if you think that I was attacking anything, you are completely wrong.

You deny you were ridiculing someone there? Or are you saying your comments were not so bad? Maybe the stab in the leg comment is as close as you will come to admission.

I never slammed on Christianity.

What is you are not Christian? What if your religion does not believe in Jesus? What if the Christian interpretation is wrong? (*gasp*...but, that can't be, could it?) What if the humans that are interpreting the bible for you are wrong in what it means? Will that "I now believe in Jesus" save you then?

Ok, sure you didn't.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #128 from JoeUser Forums Top

You deny you were ridiculing someone there? Or are you saying your comments were not so bad? Maybe the stab in the leg comment is as close as you will come to admission.

uh, didn't I just say that I wasn't attacking anyone? Read it again.

For the second part, sgsmitty64, obviously you don't understand the difference between a question and a statement.  I didn't say that any of that was the "truth".  They are questions I was asking.  Do you have answers to them?  Maybe you are seeing them as "slams" because you can't answer them with anything but biblical terms (which is how most Christians respond)?  I'm not slamming on anything, but you obviously are too defensive to see that.

Reply #129 from JoeUser Forums Top
sgsmitty, I am siding with Karma on this one. That was not a slam to Christianity. Considering that it is possible that the Christian interpretation of what God wants is not a slam. I think you are being defensive if you think it is. Calling someone else's beliefs silly and shallow is a slam. You could say that you believe you are right and anyone who differs is wrong. You don't have to say they are wrong because they are silly or shallow.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God but I certainly don't think anyone who does is silly or lesser than I in any respect.
Reply #130 from JoeUser Forums Top

KarmaGirl, deny it all you want, you were mocking. Maybe you need to ask "What Would Bhuda Do" WWBD? And no, that was not an attack.

Sigh, a typical double standard. It is okay to criticize and ridicule Christianity but if a Christian does the same or disbelieves other religions then they are being close minded. And if a Christian responds to the criticism then they are being sensitive or defensive.
I have heard and considered the whole hindu/bhuda thing in my youth and found it lacking. So now I am closed minded? I do not think so. I am not going to be in continuous consideration of a belief I find fault in, sorry.

Regardless, the quote:
What if the Christian interpretation is wrong? (*gasp*...but, that can't be, could it?) What if the humans that are interpreting the bible for you are wrong in what it means? Will that "I now believe in Jesus" save you then?


Is just about offensive as me saying "That I think it is silly and shallow and not unlike believing in 'The Force' " is to you, if only because of the mocking. *Gasp* I compared it to the Force! So I guess we will both have to deal with it

JillUser, I thank you for your comment.
Reply #131 from JoeUser Forums Top

KarmaGirl, deny it all you want, you were mocking. Maybe you need to ask "What Would Bhuda Do" WWBD? And no, that was not an attack.

You could at least spell Buddha correctly.......  And, anyone who follows Buddhism always asks themselves that as that is what it is based on.  Do you even understand the philosophy behind Buddhism?  (I am thinking that you know little about it since you don't even know how to spell it.)

Is just about offensive as me saying "That I think it is silly and shallow and not unlike believing in 'The Force' " is to you, if only because of the mocking. *Gasp* I compared it to the Force! So I guess we will both have to deal with it

How so?  I am asking questions that you could answer that could defend your stance.  Saying that something is silly and shallow is quite different.  I wasn't saying that it *was* wrong.  I was asking how you know it is right.  Instead of you defending your beliefs with reasons, you threw insults.  I'm not sure why you can not see the hypocrisy in that.

I have heard and considered the whole hindu/bhuda thing in my youth and found it lacking. So now I am closed minded? I do not think so. I am not going to be in continuous consideration of a belief I find fault in, sorry

No, but dismissing something as shallow without any discussion why *is* being closed minded.  Understanding something and believing it are very different.  I *understand* Christianity and the belief in Jesus.  I don't *believe* in it though.  I truly believe that you do not have the ability to differentiate the two.

Reply #132 from JoeUser Forums Top
They are questions I was asking. Do you have answers to them? Maybe you are seeing them as "slams" because you can't answer them with anything but biblical terms (which is how most Christians respond)?

Oh, I forgot to respond to this one. Your questions were mocking. Let's be serious, do you *really* want to know about Jesus and Christianity? I am betting you have heard it all before and have made up your mind. Then as well meaning Christian's continue to try to reach you it becomes offensive (and maybe rightly so) to you and you respond in kind. Surely you have dealt with those types of Christians. I as well have dealt with the hostile anti-christian crowd many times. They like to bait Christians so as to get them to answer something incorrectly, or to respond with "repent or you will go to hell". Then the flood gates of ridicule and mirth can be unleashed.
You might have noticed I have and will not make any attempt to turn you to Christianity. What I think that may mean to your eternity is 1) not important or true to you and 2) not something I am going to trouble myself with. In most cases my responses are to those that mock or attack Christianity, especially those who supposedly adhere to some higher or differing ideals. All the rest my response is to simply smile and nod my head knowingly.
Reply #133 from JoeUser Forums Top
You could at least spell Buddha correctly....... (I am thinking that you know little about it since you don't even know how to spell it.)

Petty, don't you think? Maybe a spell checker could be a feature of the pay version of JoeUser?


No, but dismissing something as shallow without any discussion why *is* being closed minded. Understanding something and believing it are very different. I *understand* Christianity and the belief in Jesus. I don't *believe* in it though. I truly believe that you do not have the ability to differentiate the two.

While I am positive that I do not have the knowledge about that you would have I learned enough about it to realize it was not for me. I understand what it means and the philosophy but I do not believe it. To suggest that I do not understand the difference between understanding and believing is sinking into the realm of personal attacks, no?

I certainly respect your beliefs and wish you well with them. I have read your other articles and enjoyed them, the articles detailing your lupus was very good, I found it interesting because my wife suffers from R.A. which as I understand is not as bad as lupus. Regardless, my only issue was with the mocking tone that you had with your response. I know that you are a Stardock employee and can have me blown out of existence but I suspect you are a better person than that, eh?
Reply #134 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dharma -- What exactly does "enlightened" mean in reference to Buddha?

Kharma -- you said, "Buddhism teaches about life on Earth, where Christianity focuses on what happens after death (lead a life like this so that you go to heaven)." I spend a lot of time learning about life here on earth in my Christianity. I'm not sure you understand just what we learn. We do however focus on afterlife as well. You're right. But we don't say, "lead a life like this and go to heaven." That's the opposite of Christianity. Salvation through works does not work. It's only through faith. Now, faith that is alive and true tends to manifest itself through works and "fruit," no lie, but simple faith is all it takes. A person on their death bed can believe and receive and be saved. No works required.
Reply #135 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #134 By: Shulamite - 4/21/2004 3:50:30 PM
Dharma -- What exactly does "enlightened" mean in reference to Buddha?


The word 'buddha' means 'enlightened one' or 'awakened one'. It comes from sanskrit word 'budh', to awaken. The Buddha wasn't called The Buddha from birth, his name was Siddartha Gautama. If you want to learn more, let me know and I'll give you some good sites to go to.
Reply #136 from JoeUser Forums Top
sgsmitty, you are pointing out part of christianity that doesn't jive with me. The thought that you could spend every day of your life being a loathesome waste of space but then have some miracle of faith on your death bed just doesn't make sense to me. It seems like life should be more of a linear journey toward learning the answers to life. I don't understand how you can do evil things and turn it completely around.

Again, please don't tell me it is because of the beauty of Jesus' love. That just doesn't satisfy me. There is a difference to me between knowingly doing evil things and feeling right with them and making a bad decision that ends up in something bad happening as an isolated incident. Christians lump all sins together and that just doesn't equate in my book.
Reply #137 from JoeUser Forums Top
"I never slammed on Christianity.
What is you are not Christian? What if your religion does not believe in Jesus? What if the Christian interpretation is wrong? (*gasp*...but, that can't be, could it?) What if the humans that are interpreting the bible for you are wrong in what it means? Will that "I now believe in Jesus" save you then
Ok, sure you didn't. "

I don't see anything that qualifies as a slam there....I see someone asking questions, looking for answers. However, since much of Christianity is based on faith, and believing in things you cannot see, it's almost impossible to answer any of them, at least for me. If someone else would like to have a go at it, I'd love to see the response....

But, again, I didn't see it as a slam.
Reply #138 from JoeUser Forums Top
Your thinking along the right lines now. Baptism was begun as a symbol of repentance and the washing away of sins. However Jesus was sinless and his baptism was a symbol of something new. Remember John did not want to baptize Jesus and a voice came from heaven stating that Jesus was chosen and approved by God. This indicates that from then on baptism was an out ward symbol that a person had dedicated their life to God and to obey His voice. Hence a child does not yet have the knowledge required to propose such a dedication.( John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.)

So it is up to the parent to hold a relationship with God for the safety of their child
Reply #139 from JoeUser Forums Top
"sgsmitty, you are pointing out part of christianity that doesn't jive with me. The thought that you could spend every day of your life being a loathesome waste of space but then have some miracle of faith on your death bed just doesn't make sense to me. It seems like life should be more of a linear journey toward learning the answers to life. I don't understand how you can do evil things and turn it completely around."

That sentiment, widely shared by atheists, is the result of a common misconception: that actions apart from God can be good or evil. All actions are evil before Christianity because of motive. So for a Christian, it makes sense. To a non-Christian, it's complete idiocy.

~Buddha
Reply #140 from JoeUser Forums Top
"baptism was an out ward symbol that a person had dedicated their life to God and to obey His voice. Hence a child does not yet have the knowledge required to propose such a dedication.( John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.)

So it is up to the parent to hold a relationship with God for the safety of their child"

This is why I believe that baptism should not occur until the person IS old enough to make the decision on their own, with the proper knowlede of what it means. Infant baptism, IMO, just reaffirms the PARENTS' relationship with God, rather than indicating a relationship between the child and God.....
Reply #141 from JoeUser Forums Top
So it looks like most of us agree that infant baptism is one of those things people do as a social symbol. So no mother who has a relationship with God should fear for her unbaptized baby's afterlife. So any nurse who goes to the parent of an extremely ill infant and asks "Have you had him/her baptized yet?" should be strung up by their toenails. This happened to two of my friends. Not only were they beside themselves with fear over losing the child they just brought into the world, these jerks had to go make them fear that their child would not be saved.

Buddha, as your name exemplifies, there are more schools of belief out there besides Christian and atheist. I am currently neither. You're comment was therefore thoroughly unhelpful. You say all actions were evil before Christianity. How were people judged before Jesus was born?
Reply #142 from JoeUser Forums Top
So any nurse who goes to the parent of an extremely ill infant and asks "Have you had him/her baptized yet?" should be strung up by their toenails. This happened to two of my friends. Not only were they beside themselves with fear over losing the child they just brought into the world, these jerks had to go make them fear that their child would not be saved.
Yes, that is a terrible thing to do and I think I might have slapped that nurse.
Reply #143 from JoeUser Forums Top
Believe me sgsmitty, I would have if I had been there.

Just as my parents taught me to seek my own truths, I am encouraging my kids to do the same. My oldest went to preschool at a christian academy and he has had lots of questions ever since. I just signed my younger one up for preschool at the same place. It is a great school full of wonderful people. They don't treat people who belong to the church any differently than the ones who do.

My older son did give me a scare after class had talked about the resurrection. I put him to bed one night and he told me he wished he would die. Of course no parent ever wants to hear that! I asked him why he would say such a thing and he said he wanted to meet God and Jesus. I told him I could understand that but pointed out that it would be a one way trip, that he couldn't return to mommy and daddy and his brother. He said "Why not? Jesus did." I told him that it was believed that Jesus was God's son and that he and only he could return after death. I also told him that if God thought it was time for them to meet, I'm sure he would arrange it. This convinced him that he ought to stick around.

Reply #144 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Buddha, as your name exemplifies, there are more schools of belief out there besides Christian and atheist. I am currently neither. You're comment was therefore thoroughly unhelpful. You say all actions were evil before Christianity. How were people judged before Jesus was born? "

An unfortunate symptom of my church status is that I tend to think of non-Christians as atheists. My profound apologies, I really am trying to work on it.

Your second question is more involved. I assume you're familiar with animal sacrifices? The purpose of said sacrifices were to allow a person to be righteous when the payment for his sins had not yet been given. BUT. Do not confuse that with true redemption; it was a device by which the sacrifice of redemption could become apparent before Jesus did the real job. It was his death, not the animals, that payed for the sins of those before Jesus. So the same goes for people before Jesus, although they didn't know his name, and worshiped only Yeshua- roughly Hebrew for God, although it's meanings are vast and complex and... well nevermind, I'm just trying to say that I don't really know quite what it means. But 'God' is close enough for now.

I hope that answers your question... if not, tell me and I'll attempt to clarify.

~Buddha
Reply #145 from JoeUser Forums Top

SgtSmitty: Wait now, you have the nerve to call Kharmagirl petty because she got on you for spelling Buddha incorrectly after you made a sweeping statement about my knowledge on the bible because I stated (and which others have backed me up) that Jews don't believe in a devil or hell?

For a guy who has no problems slamming on others, you are incredibly thin skinned. I didn't see any slamming on Christianity by K-girl.

Reply #146 from JoeUser Forums Top
JillUser: Sounds like you found a good school. Nice way to handle your son wanting to go to heaven now, that was cute. I certainly believe everyone should look for their own truths. I know I did and I encourage my kids to do the same. Of course they were shown "my" enlightenment and they are emersed in it so to speak as a result of being children in my house.

SgtSmitty: Wait now, you have the nerve to call Kharmagirl petty because she got on you for spelling Buddha incorrectly after you made a sweeping statement about my knowledge on the bible because I stated (and which others have backed me up) that Jews don't believe in a devil or hell?
For a guy who has no problems slamming on others, you are incredibly thin skinned. I didn't see any slamming on Christianity by K-girl.


Then we agree to disagree then on several issues. I think is is shallow to pick on something like spelling especially when it is a proper name of someone whose ideals I do not subscribe, the discussion is over ideals not grammer which is something I would have expected on a newsgroup but not here. You on the other hand had made your statements about the bible as a statement of knowledge you were sharing. As for your backup on the whole devil issue, I think I covered it pretty well that while many (not all) Jews do not recognize Satan as a being they cannot deny the fact that a evil being exists all throughout the old testment/jewish scriptures. As for hell, which we really did not get into, one description of that is sheol. But that is another topic.
Call me hard headed (is that possible with "thin" skin) but I stand by my assertion that k-girl was mocking with the *gasp*. Had it been a face to face conversation I think most would agree that was the tone. If me calling her to the mat over the mocking makes me thin skinned so be it, but then it would likewise be thin skinned to be upset over me mocking the oversoul as being not unlike "The Force".
I do not generally see myself as slamming others. I was responding to something I read as mocking. Am I personally offended by it? No, not in the least. I think it would be hard to be offended by newsgroups, blogs, internet chat because of the lack of personal interaction.
Just my 2 cents....
Reply #147 from JoeUser Forums Top
"An unfortunate symptom of my church status is that I tend to think of non-Christians as atheists. My profound apologies, I really am trying to work on it."

OMGoodness....Jews, Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists, etc.....they're all ATHEISTS in your mind? And you had the nerve to refer to ME as closeminded? Yeah, right!!!!
Reply #148 from JoeUser Forums Top
" I think is is shallow to pick on something like spelling especially when it is a proper name of someone whose ideals I do not subscribe["/quote]


So if someone were to incorrectly spell the name of Jesus, consistently, you would not be bothered by it or see it as a possible sign of intentional disrespect, as long as it was done by someone who doesn't subscribe to His ideals?
Reply #149 from JoeUser Forums Top
An unfortunate symptom of my church status is that I tend to think of non-Christians as atheists. My profound apologies, I really am trying to work on it


Good for you Dan! I mean, Buddha!
Reply #150 from JoeUser Forums Top
So if someone were to incorrectly spell the name of Jesus, consistently, you would not be bothered by it or see it as a possible sign of intentional disrespect, as long as it was done by someone who doesn't subscribe to His ideals?

Nope.