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Has the RIAA gone insane?

Has the RIAA gone insane?

RIAA: Copying CDs to your iPod not protected under fair use

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/83570/ripping-music-for-mp3-players-is-not-fair-use-riaa.html

In an effort to ensure that nobody is sympathetic to it, the RIAA's filing to the US copyright office indicates that it does not support people beig able to take their legally purchased CDs and copy that music onto their legally purchased iPod even if they are the only one using it.

Ripping music from CDs and transferring it to an iPod does not constitute fair use, according to a document filed by the major record companies.

In a filing to the US Copyright Office, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) attempts to undo a statement it made in court during the recent successful prosecution of the Grokster p2p company.

In court RIAA lawyer Don Verrilli said: 'The record companies have said, for some time now, and it's been on their website for some time now, that it's perfectly lawful to take a CD that you've purchased, upload it onto your computer, put it onto your iPod.'

However in the Copyright Office filing the RIAA takes a contrary view.

'Nor does the fact that permission to make a copy in particular circumstances is often or even routinely granted, necessarily establish that the copying is a fair use when the copyright owner withholds that authorization,' it argues. 'In this regard, the statement attributed to counsel for copyright owners in the MGM v. Grokster case is simply a statement about authorisation, not about fair use.'

In other words, explained Fred von Lohmann, senior staff attorney for the EFF, a leading digital rights campaign organisation, if you want to copy a CD to your iPod, get permission first.

As one of the people who actually does not pirate music but buys it legally, this really gets on my nerves.  At some point, EVERYONE becomes a criminal in the RIAA's book.  The idea that I can't take my legally purchased Star Wars CDs and put them onto my computer to listen to in iTunes is absurd.

21,345 views 55 replies
Reply #26 Top
They have a use if you want to pay twice for the same song or album. Once for the CD, the second for the iTunes or other music store download.

See, it all works out...
Reply #27 Top
They have a use if you want to pay twice for the same song or album. Once for the CD, the second for the iTunes or other music store download


Not if it is interpreted as citizen omzars quotes above.

...as iTunes downloads do not go directly to the iPod (or smiliar players) the transferring of a music file from iTunes to an iPod obviously constitutes making an illegal copy of the file
Reply #28 Top
I guess the first one they'd have to arrest is President Bush . . . seeing as it's been publicized that he, and his wife for that matter, are ipod users. And if it's illegal to transfer music to an ipod, how did he get the music on his ipod? This is so stupid it actually makes me laugh.

Here's my question: What can we do about it? Do we have addresses that we can write complaining letters to? Do we have a phone number that we can call & complain to these people?
If we live in a Democracy, then our voice should be heard (just like it does with voiting in the President & other members of government).
Reply #29 Top
This is a future RIAA doesnt want to happen. Much like cable tv companies wont allow you to pick the channels you want, you have to buy the package, the whole package. But what if you could just buy that song and not the whole cd? But what if you could just pick the only 3 cable channels you ever watch and only pay for just those items! Wow wouldnt that be nice? I remember either a book or movie where in the future the main character selected only those items he wanted. He/She didnt have to buy a whole cd or 255 channels of crap. They purchased only those items that they liked.

I think this would be a wonderful future to have happen now. Maybe it would force the recording industry to put more quality into their content. I mean on a whole cd there are only 2 or 3 songs I really want to hear. I dont watch tv or cable anymore because of the filth that plagues it. If I could have my ideal cable tv it would be sci-fi, history channel, and maybe the weather channel. Would be nice to see cable providers bust their humps to provide for better content ooooo maybe even force the Hollywood(or whereever programs come from) types to make better content.

Its time for a change. Its called growth. RIAA can b*tch all they want but sooner or later things change. Vinyl to CD to ..ipod to...

Reply #30 Top
Uh oh, I guess all those songs stuck in my head are illegal copies now.
Reply #31 Top
Uh oh, I guess all those songs stuck in my head are illegal copies now


heheh only illegal if you sing them out loud.
Reply #32 Top
This is the FUTURE....what is being sought after is:

The consumer owns the physical disc

The Record Company owns and will always own the music [in every form]

You can buy a disc [music or movie etc.] burn it, break it, hang it from your ears, but its content will always belong to the originator.
Reply #33 Top
this view on things is retarded with the technology today, i buy my cd's, and directly convert them to mp3 on my pc, so i can play what i want when i want, not having to browse between the 200+ cd's i have, they're all in the attic nowadays +it's easy to put some on the mp3 player to carry with you, point is, you not only buy the physical cd, you also buy the rights to the song for you personally , and in that view once you own that right, the carrier makes no difference, as long as you keep it for yourself.
another thought; if what i'm doing now is illegal, why even bother buying cd's and converting, maybe i'll just start downloading them after all, since either way is illegal
Reply #34 Top
maybe i'll just start downloading them after all, since either way is illegal


That's a good point. Since there doesn't seem to be any legal and practical way of listening to music, why not just save your money and download music and use it how you wish. I sure don't want to keep giving the RIAA more money.
Reply #35 Top
The legal and practical way of listening to music is to buy a CD, stick it in your CD player and click 'play' 
Reply #36 Top

point is, you not only buy the physical cd, you also buy the rights to the song for you personally

Incorrect. When you but a CD, you only purchase the right to listen to it, nothing else. A quote from a CD:

WARNING: All rights reserved. Unauthorised copying, reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting prohibited. 

Seems clear to me.

Reply #37 Top
The legal and practical way of listening to music is to buy a CD, stick it in your CD player and click 'play'


Well that "Logic" isnt "fuzzy" at all, LoL..Pretty straight forward and to the point...

WARNING: All rights reserved. Unauthorised copying, reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting prohibited.


Huh, with a warning label like that radio stations had better be getting permission "muy pronto" LoL

Which brings us to this...
The legal and practical way of listening to music is to buy a CD


You can just listen to the radio and forget about actually having a library of favorites...

Yeah right...
Reply #38 Top
The legal and practical way of listening to music is to buy a CD, stick it in your CD player and click 'play'


Does this mean audio technology stops at CDs? What is to become of mp3 players?
Reply #39 Top
Does this mean audio technology stops at CDs? What is to become of mp3 players?


Good question. I think we're all supposed to learn some instrument, start our own bands, record some songs and listen to it on our mp3 players. That's obviously the only "legal" option available.
Reply #40 Top

Huh, with a warning label like that radio stations had better be getting permission "muy pronto" LoL

They do.

They are granted broadcast rights....for a fee....

Reply #41 Top
I'm a musician, singer/songwriter. I also buy CD's of several artist. It's been a long time understanding that if you bought a Record, Tape or CD, you could record it to another media for your own personal use without breaking any Copyrights. This being said, let me state the other side of the coin.

As a singer/songwriter, I would not want my work just downloaded, given away freely to the masses. As this is my chosen profession to make a living on. Myself or any other entertainer does not do anything for free. We expect to get paid just like anyone working any 9 to 5 job does. You work you get paid! Simple.

Now lets look at the Record Companies. They like to overcharge across the board for everything. They even own their own CD pressing manufacturing plants. They don't have to hire anyone to do this stuff for them. They do all of the printing, publishing, advertising ( Some of it free btw, by going into record stores and such posting posters and announcements of upcoming tours and releases ), as well packaging. Granted to put a big name artist on tour, they do have to hire our for some things. But for the most part they're self suffeciant.

They themselves have made the world want to pirate music by the outrageous prices they charge on CD's that they make for a cost of pennies on a dollar. Which is why a lot of artists, including myself, could care less if we ever were to sign our life away to some major lable just to lose our rights for a quick buck. We choose to get them pressed and packaged ourselves and can charge a fair price by promoting at shows and on the Internet. But if we found our CD's being mass downloaded for FREE? We'd surely at some point have to do some of the same ( Not to the degree ) that record companies do because people think they shouldn't have to pay for what they can get for FREE even if it's wrong.

As far as iPods and the like, I could care less if anyone uploads mine to a computer to put on an iPod. That is a media that neither myself or a record company can make recordings for. So if you want to listen to my stuff on a iPod, go right ahead. The recording industry for a long time has been fighting to keep their monoply in place so they can strong arm the public. I hope they fail on this one.

Like I said, there is times when I agree with the copyright laws, as they protect my way of earning a living. But that doesn't mean I agree with the ways of RIAA. They're far far too greedy for me to agree with.
Reply #42 Top
I stopped buying CDs because so many CDs now try to install software on my PC.
I dont buy music online because its all DRM-crippled. Why should I pay for a restricted use product?


I dont buy music any more because the RIAA have made it so unattractive to me the consumer.
Reply #43 Top
They are granted broadcast rights....for a fee....


Actually there was a recent scandal that record labels were paying radio stations to play more of their client's songs.


The RIAA couldn't care less about the rights of the artist. If music piracy didn't affect profits, there would be no argument. This is assuming that piracy is the reason for the fall in profits.
Reply #44 Top

Actually there was a recent scandal that record labels were paying radio stations to play more of their client's songs.

In Oz there was a show on Telly called Countdown....if you bed the presenter you'd get on the show...[last time I saw him he was dancing up close and personal with some Collingwood footballers]...

Reply #45 Top
Remember when you tell who the artist was by the time you heard the first line of the song. Or when George Harrison got sued and lost over three little notes. I seldom listen to new music these days because it all sounds so similar, down to the notes and especially the voices. It's like anytime someone hits every producer is looking for someone who sounds exactly like them. Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if the whole industry collapsed because the crap they put out and promote isn't worth the time or money. Getting too old I guess.
Reply #46 Top

There's nothing wrong with owning and using a mp3 player, mp3 is just another recording format. It's how you use it which may be illegal.

Copyright laws in the UK/Europe are quite strict under the European Union Copyright Directive (EUCD) . Here's a quote from vnunet:

Individuals who make a copy of a copyrighted DVD, CD or music file, whether for back-up or for use on another device such as an MP3 player, are committing a crime.

Even if this is for personal use they theoretically face up to two years in jail or an unlimited fine, and possible civil action from copyright holders.

Reply #47 Top
So all we have to do is send an email /snail mail to the right record company for every song we own asking if it is ok to copy it on to our ipods. I bet they'd reword it then.
Reply #48 Top
Remember when you tell who the artist was by the time you heard the first line of the song. Or when George Harrison got sued and lost over three little notes. I seldom listen to new music these days because it all sounds so similar, down to the notes and especially the voices. It's like anytime someone hits every producer is looking for someone who sounds exactly like them. Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if the whole industry collapsed because the crap they put out and promote isn't worth the time or money. Getting too old I guess.


I buy precious few CDs nowadays. Partly beacuse it's too expensive, but also because of the above facts. All mainstream pop/rock music sounds more or less the same -- voices, melodies, rhythms, arrangements, productions. And even if there are a few mainstream artists whose music I like (like Dave Matthews Band, Sting and Robbie Williams) I'm reluctant to buy their albums. Why? Well, they're signed to big labels and the money I pay to a big label will mainly be used for a) promoting crap artists on the same label, and b) funding organisations like the RIAA. So no deal. I'll willingly buy a CD to suppport a small artist on an indie label (that's where you'll have to look in the first place if you don't want music that's completely braindead), but all the big labels and the artists on their collective leash can all go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

Besides, I don't know why some people here have brought up that "the artists have a right to be paid, so the RIAA isn't all bad" issue. Of course they have a right to be paid, but the RIAA isn't about protecting the artists' interests. It's about making sure the big companies retain their stranglehold on the music industry. The thing that baffles me most is this though: how come that the RIAA can't see that the more desperate they get and the more restrictions they try to put on everything, the less people will be inclined to obtain music legally?

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
Reply #49 Top
If I purchase a CD, I feel I am purchasing the right to use the content on it in any way my lifestyle demads. I can play that content straight off of the CD on my CD player, I can load it onto my DMS cartridge and play it in my car, or I can load it onto my iPod and listen to it anywhere else I choose. I bought it and I'll use it any way I choose, (edited by admin).

Let me ask this though: If I download a disc from the iTunes store and, after coping it to my iPod I burn it on a disc and listen to it at home, am I also in the wrong?

(edited by admin)  RIAA.
Reply #50 Top
Kleptonooch Please feel free to express an opinion, but please refrain from using language which may cause offence. Thank you.