So, No One Has Any Opinions About The New Palestine?

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from JoeUser Forums
Well? Is this how we go into WWIII or will Hamas temper itself because it now knows that using terrorism would be an act of war (becuase its not just some group, its a representative goverment power)?
6,155 views 19 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, I read a few weeks ago that Hamas has dropped destruction of Israel form its manifesto, and everyone's favorite Fatah used to be committed to the destruction of Israel, so although I'm still cautious, I don't think this is going to be WW3. Hopefully Israel will soon get a government that is willing to continue with the peace process (Peretz?). Besides, the Palestinians have a right to vote for whoever they want to, and they chose to punish Fatah for corruption, just as the Liberals were punished up here.

I would say cautious, but not overly worried about anything other than a prolonging of the status quo. Lets just see how the Israeli elections turn out...
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

read a few weeks ago that Hamas has dropped destruction of Israel form its manifesto,


Many people have said that, but I couldn't find confirmation anywhere.


and everyone's favorite Fatah used to be committed to the destruction of Israel,


What makes you think that they are not any more?


so although I'm still cautious, I don't think this is going to be WW3. Hopefully Israel will soon get a government that is willing to continue with the peace process (Peretz?).


Israel had and has a government that is willing to continue with the peace process. In fact, Israel did continue with the peace process.

What we need is an Arab Palestinian government that is willing to continue with the peace process.

Whether the Arab government is run by a terrorist group spawned by the Nazis or a terrorist group spawned by the Islamists really doesn't matter that much. At least Hamas are more honest about their goals.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Many people have said that, but I couldn't find confirmation anywhere.


Here is your confirmation... but you will probably not believe it.Link
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

but you will probably not believe it.


You are right. I don't believe it. Any other news paper, including Arab news papers, I would believe, I think.

But the Guardian has lied to me so often that I began to ask myself what exactly they think they are guarding.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
What I don't understand is why the world demands that Hamas give up their "military wing". After all, Fateh always kept their "military wing" (the Al-Aqsa Brigade, if I recall correctly), but they were still seen as (potential) partners for peace.

I guess Hamas at least represent the Arab Palestinians, so maybe they are better "partners" after all?

So far I think it is safe to say that Hamas have broken fewer promises to Israel and the world and have been more open and honest about their goals.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Andrew... perhaps you will believe this? Link

Or this? Link

or this? Link

or this? Link


For some strange reason... it was not reported in most of the western press.... how could they show the true picture when they intend to lie?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I knew they had a platform for the election which didn't match their original manifesto, but that doesn't mean that their manifesto changed.

But I still don't believe that Hamas have changed their manifesto. They still want the destruction of Israel.

I remember reading several articles about how, surprisingly, Hamas have omitted their key demand from the election manifesto. But none of them made me think that this mean that Hamas gave up that demand.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Manopeace, shalom. You live much closer to these events and, naturally, have a different perspective. But to those of us in the West, the events have been rather confusing. It is hard to understand how Abbas, perceived by many as a sincere peace candidate could lose. An the riots are just inexlicable.

The statements coming out of Hamas leadership have been confusing as well. "If you do not like our militancy, we are ready to unify the Palestinian arms ... and create an army, just like any other country," says Khaled Mashaal, a Hamas leader.

By the way, BakerStreet wrote an article that, along with the comments, is certainly worth reading.

Link
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
What will ensure failure is the approach that the U S and Israel will not talk with a Hamas lead government. The reality is that that is what the people in a democratic election chose. It may be that if the U S and Israel engage in talks with a Hamas lead government that those talks will show there is no agreement possible. However, if the U S and Israel will not talk, there is NO CHANCE of anything but more violence!
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Manopeace, shalom. You live much closer to these events and, naturally, have a different perspective. But to those of us in the West, the events have been rather confusing


The events are confusing here as well Larry... but definitely not as bad as they appear in the western press.
Wait and see... that's all I can say.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
The events are confusing here as well Larry... but definitely not as bad as they appear in the western press.
Wait and see... that's all I can say.


That is why we need your perspective. If you read the link Larry gave you, you can see the doom and gloom that is pretty much pervasive on this side of the ocean, and indeed over in England as well.

I hate to say this, but you are now the canary. I hope you are right, but we must guard against you being wrong.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you read the link Larry gave you, you can see the doom and gloom that is pretty much pervasive on this side of the ocean


I read the link there and it is no different than most of the other anti Islamic rhetoric put forth by its author. The western press and the U.S. gvernment will do everything in their power to discredit the new Hamas government, even before they take office. Bush and the Israeli government declared that they will not negotiate with Hamas. The Palestinian people have spoken... so if there will not be negotiations, there certainly will not be peace.
Both Israel and the United States seem to have forgotten that in both cases, nationhood was achieved through violence. In todays world, hopefully that can be avoided... I certainly do not want to see a war over here. So the ONLY alternative at this time is for Israel and the US to accept the fact that Hamas is now the spokesman for the Palestinian people and must speak to them.
The alternative is not a good one.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bush and the Israeli government declared that they will not negotiate with Hamas.


Actually, Bush said he will not until they renounce their violent manifesto. And I dont think that is asking too much.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

Actually, Bush said he will not until they renounce their violent manifesto


They did that Doc... but no one seems to believe them...
It's a Catch 22
And I'm in the middle of it
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree with one thing, Mano.

There is no reason to regard Hamas as worse than Fateh.

Fateh never were the angels that they suddenly became now that Hamas have won.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Fateh never were the angels that they suddenly became


Fatah is still the party of Arafat and its jailed leader Marwan Bharghouti..

Not terrorist? Very much so.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
And I'm in the middle of it


hence the canary reference. I really hope you are right, and if indeed they do renounce it (hard to say they did since they just bombed another place), Bush and israel will deal with them.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I really hope you are right,


Thanks Doc... so do I....otherwise this will not be an "I told you so" situation.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

Fatah is still the party of Arafat and its jailed leader Marwan Bharghouti..

Not terrorist? Very much so.


That is my point. Hamas is not worse than the alternative. Maybe they are less corrupt.