Do You Take the Bible Literally?

Jesus said he spoke in parables.

And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them

No. I don't believe the Bible is literal in the slightest. I believe there is a deeper truth there that a lot of people don't see. Reminds me in a way of the old Zen saying that if you see the Buddha on the road then kill him. Or the one about the Wise Sage that points to the moon but the idiot only sees his finger. The Bible (to me) is that finger. I try to use it to see the reality of the Moon.

I take the Bible literally. I think it shows two different sides of God--the jealous, vengeful side, but also the caring, loving, teaching side, too. I think the paradoxes show that God is really alot like *me*...you know? I rarely run an even keel...some days I'm a bitch and some days I'm sweet as sugar.

I've said this before, but what kind of god would God be if he made it so His instructions had to be "decoded" but didn't give us the means for decoding? I think the Bible I hold in my hands today is what God means for me to read and understand, no matter what has happened to it in the past. I think the Bible is applicable in ALL areas of life. The Bible might not address abortion directly, but it speaks about killing, and it speaks about children and such. The Bible talks about how we should dress, how we should speak, how we should treat those in authoritiy.

At any rate, let me summarize: I don't think there's any "hidden messages" in the Bible. I think it says what it means and means what it says. As a mere human, I would expect God to make something simplistic so that my mortal brain and heart can understand what He's trying to tell me. I don't think there's any wishy-washyness.

If following the instructions of the Bible is the only path to salvation, what happens to all the people who are never introduced to the Bible?

This is why Jesus commanded people who believe in the Bible's message to go "make disciples"--go tell other people about Him. BUT...I also understand that not everyone can understand or hear the Bible because of disabilities, language issues, etc. When you become a Christian, you do so because you understand what Jesus' death means and you choose to believe that it applies to you. You've heard it. Someone explained it to you or you read it for yourself from the Bible. You CHOOSE. But people who don't have a Bible in their language, can't comprehend anything about Jesus, etc., I think they're not bound by the "making a choice" thing--because they've never been exposed to it or can't understand the gospel.

Babies? Kids? I think if they die and they're too young to understand the gospel, that they go to "heaven". The same goes for people with disabilities--if they can't understand about Jesus, they're not held to that standard either, because they lack the ability to choose for themselves. But I think that people that hear about Jesus and choose to say "no, I don't believe that" don't get "into" the Christian heaven.

Does that make sense?

Can you take Jesus as your saviour and not take the bible as the word of God literally.

being a Catholic, and since that is our cannon and creed, I would have to say unequivocally yes!

Wise Sage that points to the moon but the idiot only sees his finger. The Bible (to me) is that finger. I try to use it to see the reality of the Moon.

I like that.

Does that make sense?

Not to me but it sounds like a compassionate belief. The following have to do with being saved:

MT 10:22, 24:13, MK 13:13 He that endures to the end will be saved.
MK 16:16 He that believes and is baptized will be saved.
JN 3:5 Only he that is born of water and Spirit will be saved.
AC 16:31 He that believes on the Lord Jesus will be saved.
AC 2:21 He that calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
RO 10:9 He who confesses with his mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead will be saved.
1JN 4:7 He who loves is born of God (and presumably will be saved.)

Obviously some of those are much more restrictive than others. I tend to believe that if you are a loving person with open heart and mind, God will see that you are trying to understand what is expected of you. Baptism is a nice symbol of your commitment to God, or in the case of infant baptism, the families commitment to God. I don't believe it has anything to do with whether or not you will be saved.

I am a catholic and not remotely close to being a bible expert. I use the Bible as a guide, take it literally in some cases, not in others. What I can offer to the subject is my belief that the Bible (all versions) has been reinterpreted many times by theologians over different periods. As a result, the bible presents facts and some ambiguities with hopes of not loosing the original intent. This is when I reach for my teaching bible for further clarification.

I think the paradoxes show that God is really alot like *me*...you know? I rarely run an even keel...some days I'm a bitch and some days I'm sweet as sugar.

Then issue I have with that is that god is supposed to be devoid of anger or raging hormones.  He's supposed to be perfect. 

I personally wouldn't want anything to do with a fallible deity.  I refuse to worship an entity that's the same as I.

Oh, and I take nothing that's written in the bible literally.  I look at it as being more like Aesop's Fables than a literal, blow-by-blow account.  I think that it's when people start trying to take it literally that they run into problems and start looking for hidden messages because what they're reading makes no sense.

It's a book, it was written by aging men 70 years after the fact (and that's just the New Testament; some of the old was written much longer afterwards), and it's incomplete.  It's no wonder people don't understand it.

Oh, and I take nothing that's written in the bible literally. I look at it as being more like Aesop's Fables than a literal, blow-by-blow account. I think that it's when people start trying to take it literally that they run into problems and start looking for hidden messages because what they're reading makes no sense.

That was beautiful Dharma...

it's when people start trying to take it literally that they run into problems and start looking for hidden messages because what they're reading makes no sense.

I think people often interpret things in dangerous ways. People who presume to know exactly what God wants by what is written in the Bible. It just seems that it would be a whole lot clearer and have no contradictions if it were to be taken literally. Otherwise, how do you chose what to take literally and what not to?

I've said this before, but what kind of god would God be if he made it so His instructions had to be "decoded" but didn't give us the means for decoding?

Matthew 13:10-17

"The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables:

Though seeing they, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, to hear what you hear, but did not hear it."

Christ goes on to explain the parable of the sower.

The Bible is exclusive by nature, rather than inclusive. It's not designed for ease of understanding or comprehension.

Otherwise, how do you chose what to take literally and what not to?

I dunno. Be honest. Do you really believe a giant fish ate Jonah? Do you really believe the universe was created in 7 days? Do you really believe that Lott's wife turned into a pillar of salt?

I don't think so, Tim.

Maybe, for example, Lott's wife turned into a "pillar of salt" i.e. a preservative, for her "looking back." something we are better off not doing.

Just my 2 cents...

The Bible is exclusive by nature, rather than inclusive. It's not designed for ease of understanding or comprehension.

So does that mean you take it literally TW?

Jill: I'm not Christian, so it's just a book to me.

I don't think it can be taken literally, even by Christians, because it is clear that it is not designed for that. Jesus spoke in parables and explained (as in the scripture above) that not everyone will understand the scriptures or instructions...that it is that way by design.

Very good point TW. Thanks!

The bible is both literal and symbolic. You have to read it in context. I basically use the principle that "if it makes sense, seek no other sense."

An example would be.... Jesus said "I am the door." He also said "I am the bread of life."

Now I don't take that literally. He's saying there's no getting around him to get into heaven. Many want the kingdom but not the King. He's not a literal door.

He's also the source of spiritual food. When we come to him, we are fed and satisfied...spiritually. He's not a loaf of bread.

It's sort of saying it's raining cat's and dogs in our day. We don't take that literal but it stands for something.

So when reading scripture you have to determine...is this literal (does it make sense that way) or is it symbolic? If symbolic...it means it stands for something. You can find the answer for the symbolism somewhere else in scripture. He wants us to search the scriptures to find these puzzle pieces.

The problem with taking scripture totally symbolic is that these groups out there can make it stand for whatever they wish to perpetrate their religion. That's when it gets nasty. I believe scripture interprets scripture.

I believe scripture interprets scripture

   Bit of a circular arguement isn't it?

The problem with taking scripture totally symbolic is that these groups out there can make it stand for whatever they wish to perpetrate their religion. That's when it gets nasty.

I agree with that!

 

I dunno. Be honest. Do you really believe a giant fish ate Jonah? Do you really believe the universe was created in 7 days? Do you really believe that Lott's wife turned into a pillar of salt?

I believe those things. Does that make me ignorant or a simpleton? I suppose it does.

Jill: I'm not Christian, so it's just a book to me. I don't think it can be taken literally, even by Christians, because it is clear that it is not designed for that. Jesus spoke in parables and explained (as in the scripture above) that not everyone will understand the scriptures or instructions...that it is that way by design.

I can make the Bible say anything I want it to say if I nitpick. Let's take the Bible's shortest verse: "Jesus wept." Yup. Those two words prove EVERYTHING! He's a total pussy!

Jesus spoke in parables because people don't understand all the spiritual "terminology" crap. Frankly, I don't understand it. So Jesus put the points he was trying to make into stories people could understand: Like stories about family--the Prodigal son, stories about farming--the seed falling on the rock and on fertile ground, etc., etc. Jesus was meant to be accessible--Christianity is accessible. Not easy, but accessible. I choose to believe that I can go to God with ANYTHING. I believe God can do anything. ANYTHING!

Who was Jesus speaking to in those Matthew Scriptures you quoted? I think that's important to note. He was talking to his disciples, the dudes he CHOSE to go with Him to tell the world about God. These dudes KNEW who Jesus was--they *got* it. The people they were talking to didn't. These guys had EVERY priviledge and exceptional understanding, but they still didn't get it--"thought seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

I can look at something. I can have someone explain something to me, I can hear the noises that something makes, but I can still CHOOSE not to believe the proof that's right in front of me. My cat's sitting on the pillow here beside the computer screen. I can hear her purring. I can feel her breath on my hand. I can see her green eyes starting to get droopy. But I can still CHOOSE not to believe she's there even though I can see, hear, and feel her.

Who was Jesus speaking to in those Matthew Scriptures you quoted? I think that's important to note. He was talking to his disciples, the dudes he CHOSE to go with Him to tell the world about God. These dudes KNEW who Jesus was--they *got* it. The people they were talking to didn't. These guys had EVERY priviledge and exceptional understanding, but they still didn't get it--"thought seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

There's another Scripture, I'll have to look for it, but it speaks directly about Scripture not being intended to be understood by all. Simply put, many parts of the Bible are difficult to understand or glean any sort of applicable meaning from.

That's why you have so many authors and other Christians promoting different interpretations of the same books or verses. These are generally all people earnestly attempting to learn what is meant in whatever book, chapter, or verse. And yet they come up with different things.

It's not so much a matter of *choosing* not to understand, but more of the Scripture being enigmatic to the point that even Christians with similar beliefs cannot agree on a meaning.

There's another Scripture, I'll have to look for it, but it speaks directly about Scripture not being intended to be understood by all. Simply put, many parts of the Bible are difficult to understand or glean any sort of applicable meaning from. That's why you have so many authors and other Christians promoting different interpretations of the same books or verses. These are generally all people earnestly attempting to learn what is meant in whatever book, chapter, or verse. And yet they come up with different things. It's not so much a matter of *choosing* not to understand, but more of the Scripture being enigmatic to the point that even Christians with similar beliefs cannot agree on a meaning.

And if everyone dumbed down about it and just took it for what it says we'd all be on the same page instead of trying to be so scholarly about it. We just have to make things complicated.

I can see why Christianity is so confusing to people who are on the "outside" looking in. If I hadn't started out in a church I'd probably never into one either. I think "Christians"--and I use that term loosely because my definition of Chrisitanity is much more exclusive than incluse--really do non-Christians a disservice by having a list full of "rules" to abide by that aren't in the Bible and by speaking "church talk" to people who don't understand "church talk". Jesus was smart about that.

The disciples also questioned Jesus' parables, Marcie. They had to have them explained as well.

If I hadn't started out in a church I'd probably never into one either.

So what about the people who are born in Muslim areas of the world. Is God making it more difficult for them to find Jesus? Why would our creator favor people of some parts of the land over others? If you were born in India and started out in a Hindu temple rather than a christian church, how would that effect your path to God? That is one of my big questions about the exclusivity of christianity.

I believe those things. Does that make me ignorant or a simpleton? I suppose it does.

In Shovelheat's defense, he said it was just his opinion (i.e. 2 cents). Noone is calling anyone ignorant here. Just posing questions regarding each others' beliefs. That is how we learn, right?

People are very passionate about religion so it is always easy to get defensive. I think everyone has been very respectful so far.

The disciples also questioned Jesus' parables, Marcie. They had to have them explained as well.

Yes. They didn't quite get it either. It says that afterwards it all made sense. They were not given the HS until afterwards. That's what's needed for understanding. You see a big difference in them before and after Pentecost.

When he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this to them and they believed the scripture and the word which Jesus had said. John 2:22

Then he opened their understanding that they might understand the scriptures. Luke 24:45.

See, we can't understand it without his opening our eyes. I tell non Christians to try asking for this understanding for a month and read the book of John while doing so. God says those that seek me will find me. It's like a lightbulb goes on.

So what about the people who are born in Muslim areas of the world. Is God making it more difficult for them to find Jesus?

There are Christians springing out of that faith and others as well. I'm reading a book written by two Muslim brothers raised in OHIO that left Islam. The three brothers left (2 wrote the book) and their father disowned them. They said if they didn't live here in the States they would have been killed. His book? "Unveiling Islam." The brothers now have their Ph.D's in Theology and are Professors. Their names? Ergun Mehmet Caner and Emir Fethi Caner.

No one would listen to them before 9/11. Now they are in demand for speaking engagements. I've heard Ergun especially is a dynamic speaker.

I don't think it's any harder for a Muslim to find Jesus as God as it is an atheist or even a non-Christian churchgoer. God doesn't see it like that. It's either for or against me. It's either Jesus is God or he isn't.

Christianity is inclusive as well as exclusive. It's inclusive for all that will believe and exclusive for all that won't.

It all basically comes down to one question. "Who do you say that I am?"

#10 by Texas Wahine

Matthew 13:10-17

has been given to you

Here Jesus is clearly affirming their ability to understand spiritual truth is a gift from God, bestowed to the elect....

but not to them.

the unbelievers are passed over. They are reaping the natural consequences of their own unbelief...spiritual blindness.

Though seeing they, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

Matthew suggests that their own unbelief is the cause of their blindness.

sorry it's the bible teacher in me.

Yes. They didn't quite get it either. It says that afterwards it all made sense. They were not given the HS until afterwards. That's what's needed for understanding. You see a big difference in them before and after Pentecost.

If we receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism, then how are those new to Christianity supposed to understand the Scriptures if that is what required to grasp the meaning in them?

See, we can't understand it without his opening our eyes. I tell non Christians to try asking for this understanding for a month and read the book of John while doing so. God says those that seek me will find me. It's like a lightbulb goes on.

It's clearly something designed to be exclusive and difficult to grasp, wouldn't you agree, if one is not able to understand the meaning or truth in the Scriptures without having a certain mindset?

sorry it's the bible teacher in me.

Notta problem. I understand the context of the Scripture I quoted. It does demonstrate, however, that the Bible, according TO the Bible, is not a straight-forward book which can be easily understood. Much is subject to interpretation, and of course every Christian believes that they, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and intense study, have the key to the correct interpretation.

If it were literal and crystal clear, we wouldn't have so many denominations convinced that they alone understand the true meaning.