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DID TOOKIE WILLIAMS DESERVE TO DIE

DID TOOKIE WILLIAMS DESERVE TO DIE

MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS

On December 13, 2005 a few minutes past mid night a well built, healthy man walked the last few hundred feet between his cell on Death Row at San Quentin and the excecution chamber. That Tookie Williams was a ruthless killer no one denies. That he had a violent youth in which a dissipated life careened out of control uder the influence of poverty and drugs too no one denies. He along with Raymond set up a violent street gang, Cripps, this too is a fact. And he killed four people in typical gang land style. Having said all this can we say that he deserved a chance to straighten out his lfe.

I do not buy the theory of procecutorial misconduct during the course of the trial. That he was responsible for killing four young men is certain.

After his trial, Tookie Williams had embarked upon the worthy course of warning Black youth of the dangers of gang warfare and drugs by writing a series of books. He also wrote his autobiography which explains the social context in which he grew up. A fatherless childhood and two children from two different women by the time he was 18, and an irresponsible attitude towards his children, made him seek the refuge in a gang. The gang is probably the one social group that provided a degree of self worth and then the drift into crime.

It is not quite right to disscount the race factor in the debade on the Death Penalty. Tookie Williams was probed fro nearly 1 hour with hypodermic syringes before the vein to let the lethal mixture was found. This is ceratainly a cruel and unusual way of killing an individual, Further it took Mr Tookie Williams nearly 10 minutes to die. Some agony.

The federal jusdes had reccomended clemency for Tookie Williams on the ground that he had behaved in an exemplary manner in the last half of his life. He died at the age of 52 for a crime committed at the age of 24. Obviously he was a completely different man to the callow youth who had done the horrible deeds.Can this factor not be the ground for mercy?
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Reply #26 Top
Just 'cause Tookie only pulled the trigger on four doesn't mean he didn't start a system of murder, drugs, and corruption. So who's the bigger culprit?
---singrdave

Bingo, buddy; good call. Look at the Nazi bigwigs in the dock at Nuremberg, for example. None of them really DID anything wrong, but they were still guilty of crimes against humanity because they started the ball rolling. Same with Tookie.

You are turning political theory on its head:Representative democracy works best when the political leadership acts in accordance to the mandate from the people.
---Bahu

And by executing criminals, it is acting in accordance with its mandate. It is protecting us as best as possible from these people. Capital punishment will not halt murders altogether, or stop serial killers in their tracks. We all know that. However, if it makes just one out-of-control nutcase with a weapon in his/her hand stop for just a second and think "Whoa, I could get the chair for this; I'd better cool off before it goes any further", then it's done its job. Unfortunately, there's no way for us to know or document those cases.
Just as unfortunately, knowing about and documenting those cases would be the only way people like you would come to see the wisdom of state-sponsored execution.



If this is how the US democracy functions then Iraq War would not have happened.
---bahu

Hmmm....and here, I thought, all this time, we were talking about Tookie Williams. Oh well, okay.....a triumph for justice with the death of Tookie, and a triumph for democracy with the elections in Iraq. Looking pretty good from my perspective.
Reply #27 Top
As for the state having the right to take life, this question is still being debated both within and outside the USA.


Good. Americans should and "they" should too. All this debate over the death penalty is just making our nation stronger. It strengthens our Constitution and our perceived liberites and freedoms. So have at us, Bahu... we need this debate in order to strengthen our own resolve.
Reply #28 Top
What have you said or done that makes you believe your views are better or more elevated than our own?

You write as if we have several steps to rise on the "reasoning pyramid" before reaching your vaulted plateau.

But from what I can see, and my eyes are WIDE open, is you standing at the bottom of the "reasoning" pyramid, with your eyes closed demanding others higher on the pyramid learn from you. But you are talking to the dirt because you believe you are on the top of the pyramid looking down at the rest of us. If you'd open YOUR eyes you'd see the reality.
---Tova7



AND if you'd shut up and listen you might figure out how to open your eyes and start the long trek up the pyramid. But first you might have to admit to yourself that some of us don't see you as a catalyst to make us "think" but more as an obstinate child who refuses to accept reality.

But I'm not holding my breath.
---Tova7

On closer examination of this post, I believe Tova deserves a "triple snap", too! SNAP, SNAP SNAP!!!
Reply #29 Top
Syringe Stanley was nothing but a murderous waste of human flesh who chose his life, and chose his death.

Feeling sorry for him is a waste. He's dead, and the world is better for it.