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Why does the Left love dictatorships and their rulers?

Why does the Left love dictatorships and their rulers?

An opinion piece.....

Why does the Left, that entity which claims to so admire things like freedom of speech, the press, thought and things like Human Rights, why do they always seem to embrace the totalitarians and tyrants? The dictatorships and despots?
Why do they, these arbiters of unfettered personal expression, always find ways to explain away their favorite tinpot Hitler's oppressive indescretions and apologize for their abuses?

I've seen these questions debated again and again here on JU; why do the dictatorships get a pass, while the democracies, the ones they SHOULD be supporting, always seem to come under their fire?
Like when they do things such as impose sanctions against dictators and their nations, and especially when they increase their building of arms to stand against the oppression symbolized by the totalitarians. Instead of working to free the oppressed, it seems the liberals are more than happy to let their favorite tyrants go merrily about their business unmolested.

For example, as Jimmy Carter spent four years coddling the Soviets and schmoosing Fidel Castro, all the while ignoring, and even lending tacit support to, Leftist stirrings in Central Amercia and Africa, democracy lost ground the world over. We got weaker by the day.
Ronald Reagan went into office and, eight years later, against the warning cries and apologizing of Democrats in the House and Senate, and that of liberal elements among our "allies" (all of whom would have been much more than content with some level of peaceful co-existence with the USSR), had virtually ended forty years of Cold War, advancing the frontiers of democracy everywhere.
Leftwing elements the world over decried his policies as fascist, militaristic and oppressive. This, even as he funded the upgrading of Voice of America and Radio Liberty and supported and nutured the fledgling, suppressed Solidarity movement in Poland to the chagrin of the Polish government, the USSR and the "Democratic" Republic of Germany (East Germany).
And what of his aid to the beseiged Mujahedeen in Afghanistan? Those people, he backed against direct Soviet aggression.
Where were the cries of "militarists!" and "oppressors!" from demonstrators outside Soviet and Eastern Bloc nation's embassies?

The Bush 41 Administration attacked Iraq to the derisive cries of the Left, who kept imagining, or perhaps wistfully envisioning, another Vietnam quagmire. Instead, sadly for them, the war was over in 100 days; their blustering, beloved tyrant Saddam's tail was tucked firmly between his legs until January 1993, when Slick Willy the (Barely) Closet(ed) Socialist came into office and let America be pushed all over the place by the UN and their anti-American mafia of grafters and rabid Internationalists.
He spent the next eight years squandering or frittering away America's newfound, rightly-claimed status as Sole Superpower.

Then came Bush 42 and 9-11....liberals the world over, though "saddened" by the great loss of life, understood completely how the Islamics could come to hate us for our arrogance and riches, and to strike us so coldly and callously. Some of the more pure-biled lefty America-lasters even cheered.
In 2002, it became clear, as it had for about a decade, that Saddam just may have been dabbling in a WMD program. Senators and members Congress from both sides agreed, again, as they had for about a decade, that the intelligence data was well-represented, and that something must be done. Soon.
So, off to war we went.
As time progressed, however, it became apparent that the sought-for WMDs were not presenting themselves as promised; so, like the sore-loser, cowardly weasels they are, the Democrats started carping against the Bush Administration, forgetting the data they all agreed on as being correct, in a thinly-disguised effort at payback for "stealing" the election from their robocandidate, Aldroid Gore.
And, true to form, the Left always finds ways to excuse Saddam for his behavior, and to apologize to everyone for and explain away, ignore or gloss over, the rape rooms, torture chambers, the mass graves, the multiple, opulent, czarist palaces....etc, while at the same time berating the US for it's "poor behavior" and "torture"; like giving terrorist prisoners "pink bellies" (slapping their bellies until they become pink.....like the bully in 3rd grade did to you).
What's next? Decrying the noogies and swirlies inflicted on the poor prisoners? What about pants-ing? Would that be considered torture, too?
Nothing the US is doing in Iraq is right or good, especially the toppling of a tyrant and the attempted installation of a free, democratic government. Who wants that, right?
Not the Democrats; they want:

1. Bush to be impeached. Why? Because; they don't like him.
2. The US to lose in Iraq; mainly so we can be embarrassed, and if all goes well, maybe a strong man can take control again, and lord his will over the entire country. That they can understand and support, after all. "Of the People, by the People"?.....too messy.

Why do they do this? Why do they love dictators?

I think I know; I think we all do......

The Left loves Big Government.

What represents the purest, most unalloyed form of Big Government than an omnipresent dictatorship, one which holds all the cards and controls and manages the very lives of the people it rules, even down to what can and can't be purchased or owned?
Dictatorships (especially Socialists) own everything, and decide who gets what and when. This is an ideal which appeals very much to the Socialist in every Democrat/liberal.
Unfortunately, since many of them serving in the House and Senate now were radicals and long-haired hippie demonstrators in the 60s, this ideal is very attractive to them.

Also, a dictatorship doesn't have to stand for opposition to its tenets from dissidents and naysayers who point out its faults, as the Left has to in the Democracies.
The nitpickers and faultfinders in a dictatorship are jailed or killed outright for their opinions, rather than debated and/or tolerated. Wouldn't the Clintons and Kerry have loved to do either to such complainers and troublemakers Limbaugh and Hannity, Coulter and Sowell? You betchya they would.
Freedom of expression is wonderful, so long as you're not the target, and with its ongoing implosion, the Democratic party has been the bullseye for many a sharply-thrown dart from the Right.


So, That's why I think the Left loves its tyrants. You're free to disagree, however.....after all, Communism is dead.
Thanks for that, Mr. Reagan.
18,618 views 70 replies
Reply #26 Top
Frankly, I believe it is because they think the average human is stupid and can't rule themselves. That's why they think we need the Great and Powerful Oz to protect us, educate us, pay for our insurance, make sure we raise our kids correctly, etc.

That's the dishonesty inherent in socialism, imho. They don't want government run by the "people", because if the people were fit and able to rule themselves there wouldn't be a need for government fostering at all. Therefore when they pretend that the government owning the means of production in a society is really the "people" owning it, it is bullshit.

What they want is the stigma of socialism and a heavy-handed dictatorial government making sure we aren't all ignorant savages. The "people" don't own the oil industry in Venezuala, Chavez and his cronies do. If someone really respects the rights of the "people" and want the "people" to own industries, they'll embrace capitalism and the free market economy and let "people" handle things themselves.

So, while socialism is better for them, at least under a dictator the unwashed masses aren't actually making decisions for themselves. Dictators can always lie, and tell them that they are suspending the consitution, summarily drafting laws, crushing dissent, etc., in the hope that it will bring about Utopia. Liberals tend to believe idiotic lies like that, believe it or not...
Reply #27 Top
Frankly, I believe it is because they think the average human is stupid and can't rule themselves.


how does that explain decades of support for people like the somozas, mobutu, the shah, batista, duarte, the greek colonels, etc.? rightwinger seems to believe all their sins were mitigated by being 'anti-communist'.

without meaning to elevate chavez, all of the above make him look relatively benign by comparison.
Reply #28 Top
You answer yourself, kb. The difference is we aligned ourself those leaders, begrudgingly, IN SPITE of their system of rule. We didn't see their naations as a model for how we should run our own.

Go read what folks who support Chavez have to say about him around here. They don't begrudgingly support him, they don't support him in spite of his acts, they openly support him BECAUSE of his acts.
Reply #29 Top
do you know anything at all about how the west betrayed vietnam back into colonial slavery after wwii in order to placate that good ol rightwing monarchist charles de gaulle? do you know how de gaulle managed to pull that off by playing the commie card?
---Kingbee

For his part, I will give Roosevelt credit in that he was extrememly anti-colonialist, and wanted an end to the Empires. But, France wanted to try and recapture the Ole Glory of France, and as a former "ally" (though DeGaulle did little to actually help the cause, besides get uder the skin of all the Leaders and generals), so well, let them. As to "playing the commie card", I'd say he played it pretty damn well at Dien Bien Phu, wouldn't you?


thats patent nonsense.
---Kingbee

Take off your lefty blinders and read history as it played out, rather than its revisions; Churchill did not trust Stalin at all, and advised Roosevelt to be careful of him.


Thanks for all these posts, folks...gotta go to work now (no government wants to take care of me). I'll hit all these later.
Reply #30 Top
; he liked and trusted old "Uncle Joe" Stalin, and completely trusted him, against Churchill's judgement, to keep his word to pull out of Eastern Europe after the fall of Hitler's Germany.


thats patent nonsense.


Shows what you don't know!....


The friendship that developed between Churchill and Roosevelt was not without its difficulties, and it is important not to lose site of the fact that the primary responsibility of both men was to look after national interests. This inevitably led to tensions, which at times became quite pronounced. Serious differences arose, for example, over the question of when and where to open the second front in Europe, and a host of other issues, particularly with respect to economic matters. Furthermore, as the years passed and victory in Europe appeared more and more certain, Roosevelt began to cultivate a bilateral relationship with Stalin that wounded Churchill's pride and signaled the emergence of a bipolar postwar world, dominated not by the British Empire, but rather by the two new Super-Powers



Roosevelt was criticized for being naïve in his dealings with Stalin, for distrusting Charles de Gaulle and for occasionally overruling his chiefs-of-staff, but his leadership of America from December 1941 to his death in April 1945, was far more of a positive success than a failure and he will go down as the only person to date in America, to win four presidential elections.


Or lastly


It is claimed that the President, in his own mind, decided that Stalin was basically a good man and good leader of his people, and that the Soviet regime and system, based after all on socialism, could be transformed, with Rosevelt’s guidance, into a democracy. The President thought that he could personally handle Stalin. He was convinced that Stalin was not an imperialist. Roosevelt envisaged that he and Stalin, that is the United States and the Soviet Union together, will lead the Allies to the final victory and eventually decide the political and economic structure of the post war world. He was willing to exclude from this, Churchill and Britain (and incidentally France) as imperialists who could not be trusted to create the necessary conditions for democracy and a just peace. In future dealings of the Big Three Rosevelt invariably sided with Stalin.


In pursuit of this policy the President was aided and abetted by only a few members of his administration, notably his personal envoy Harry Hopkins, and his one time (1937) ambassador to Moscow, Joseph Davies. He decided to ignore completely the advice and warnings from such experienced observers of Europe as William Bullitt, Loy Henderson, Charles E. "Chip" Bohlen, George Keenan, Averell Harriman and Gen. John Deane, all experienced diplomats who had spent some time in Moscow.


Right until his death Roosevelt tried to win Stalin’s trust and friendship. All that time Stalin did not trust the President and Soviet Union spies were stealing America’s secrets. Roosevelt was always prepared to make concessions to Stalin (often against Churchill’s advice) and to meet his wishes and requests.
Reply #31 Top
most of them weren't any more anti-communist than gus hall. they were cruel thugs who preyed on their own countrymen and played yall for fools in order to enrich themselves.
---kingbee

But they were cruel, pro-American thugs, opposing something we opposed, or offering something in the region we wanted, or else we wouldn't have supported them and helped them into power in the first place.
The Soviets used to do the very same, exact thing.....but who always got nailed for it by people like you? The US. Is that fair...not at all.

Can you name the last prominant liberal whose popularity wasn't raised by accusations of misbehavior?
---PT2K

This is because of the whole "rebel, anti-authoritarian" thing. Liberals do passionately love the person who dares to be an individual, after all. It's all about the "Me", right?
Also playing into it is the relaxation of morals on the Left.
I mean, when you don't like rules, you tend to look with more favor on those who flout them, and show less respect for those who follow them.



Carvel just replied "It don't matter how much smelly mud you throw on them, no one like a person who shovels it into another persons face in the first place. Just put down the shovel and start building something instead, we may just win some support, for a change."
--Lee1776

It absolutely astounds me that Carvel could actually get that message past the inch-thick layer of liberal rhetoric that lines his mouth; at least one of them seems to be getting it. It all comes down to "If you haven't got something nice to say, don't say it."
Man, if they stop whining and complaining about everything, they might just get to be a force again. I hope they don't get it and keep on whining and complaining.

well said rightwinger. I have nothing to add, just wanted to lend some support.
--Modman

Thanks, MM...Baker, drmiler....Thanks for the support, guys. And to everyone who's posted here so far.

Kingbee:

You always seem to have a good grasp and command of some particular facts that I do not have. Admittedly, this often frustrates me because I just don't have the time to look everything up in order to give you a really good thrashing.
That's all well and good, but as for this article, I'm not seeing you addressing the actual point of the post itself. You're using this grasp of these facts I refer to in order to chip away at smaller issues you have with my line of reasoning. Fine, I understand were you're coming from, but I have yet to see from you an outright, firey dismissal of my point itself, that liberals (and in general the Left as a whole) love and suck up to dictators.
All I'm getting is you trying to cloud the issue with your "Nyah, Nyah....your side does it, too....Nyah, Nyah!"

Is this because even you can't/won't deny something of which you can't debate the truth?
Reply #32 Top

Hmmm...I had no clue. You better not tell China!


And also Cuba, Laos, North Korea and Vietnam.

Hmm, like he said, communism is dead!

The Zombies just dont know it.

Reply #33 Top

In answer to your question, the right does not ignore them either, and indeed there are enough examples of propping up right wing dictators, during the cold war.  Since then, there has been a very low tolerance of dictators by the right, but as you note, a growing tolerance of them on the left.

So looking at why today (and even why yesterday like Nicarauga), why do they do it?  It gives the US a black eye.  Pure and simple.  They hate the fact that the US is king of the hill, and anything that knocks them down a peg or 2 must be good.

Reply #34 Top

Reply By: stevendedalusPosted: Monday, November 21, 2005
In case someone would want to ask why Roosevelt, as a Democrat, was so hot to defeat the Fascist dictatorships...I say this:

Fascism is a phenomenon of the extreme Right. 'Nuff said?


Father, forgive him for he knows not what he says!

damn!  You just made me use my last Insightful for the day!

Reply #35 Top
So looking at why today (and even why yesterday like Nicarauga), why do they do it? It gives the US a black eye. Pure and simple. They hate the fact that the US is king of the hill, and anything that knocks them down a peg or 2 must be good.
---Dr. Guy

Hmm...interesting. Thanks, Doc.
Reply #36 Top

how does that explain decades of support for people like the somozas, mobutu, the shah, batista, duarte, the greek colonels, etc.? rightwinger seems to believe all their sins were mitigated by being 'anti-communist'.

Rightwinger is right.  That does not make the support right, but it does make him right.

Reply #37 Top

Hmm...interesting. Thanks, Doc.

Sorry I was late! I missed this yesterday.

Reply #38 Top
I'm trying to get rid of post #16. I revised it, and it posted twice. Anyone else having problems with the "edit" feature? Hmm...but it let me edit this....I don't get it. Anyway, #17 is the revised version.
Reply #39 Top
Rightwinger is right. That does not make the support right, but it does make him right.


Thanks, Doc.

Sorry I was late! I missed this yesterday.


No problemo.
Reply #40 Top
Well, dictatorships are dictatorships, there's just no arguing with those people. However, a democracy allows us the freedom to disagree. Right? So, sometimes, we do.
---UBob

I hit this before, but something still bugs me about it.

"Democracy allows us the freedom to disagree."

Hmmm...yes, it does.

But it's with a high level of blatant hypocrisy that that right is freely used to demonstrate on behalf of governments and rulers that do not offer it to their own subjects, and to denigrate those that do, for opposing them.

People marching in Washington or London, Paris or Berlin, demonstrating against American actions in the Middle East, are perfectly free to do so.
If only the people living in the nations in question had the same freedom.
Perhaps then those actions wouldn't have been taken in the first place.
Reply #41 Top
Could you provide a link or two to polls saying that the Democrats are gaining ground in the 2008 elections. Because the polls I have seen shows that nothing has changed in the last few months.


I was referring to the upcoming elections in 2006. There are a ton of polls there indicating that people would rather see Democrats controlling congress. Some polls it's not a huge margin, but some show a preference of Democrat by as much as 17%.Link

I think it's way too early to speculate on 2008. There's no telling who's even going to run yet.
Reply #42 Top
People marching in Washington or London, Paris or Berlin, demonstrating against American actions in the Middle East, are perfectly free to do so.
If only the people living in the nations in question had the same freedom.


Unfortunately they usually do have the freedom to demonstrate "against American actions in the Middle East", they just don't have the freedom to demonstrate against their own country's foreign policies.
Reply #43 Top
they just don't have the freedom to demonstrate against their own country's foreign policies.


Um....yes. I know that.

Precisely why it's hypocritical of people living in the democracies to demonstrate against their own government's attempts to stand against and end oppression, while at the same time tolerating, never mentioning or even ignoring and explaining away the oppression itself, in the other countries.
Reply #44 Top

I was referring to the upcoming elections in 2006. There are a ton of polls there indicating that people would rather see Democrats controlling congress. Some polls it's not a huge margin, but some show a preference of Democrat by as much as 17%.Link

Hey Clueless.  Next years elections are local, not national.  National numbers dont mean shit.

Reply #45 Top
Hey Clueless. Next years elections are local, not national.


I was responding to his request for the links to the polls I was looking at.

How exactly would you differentiate between a local and a national election? 33 Senate seats are up, and all Congressional seats are up. How exactly is that not "national"?

Link

Who's clueless now jackass?
Reply #46 Top
33 Senate seats are up, and all Congressional seats are up. How exactly is that not "national"?


Sorry to jump in at this late date... been a little busy w/ a new job and all.

The Senatorial and Congressional elections coming up in '06 are local elections. They may be for Federal office, but the elections are local. Only voters in the LOCAL districts (whether that district is a few square miles or an entire state) can participate. If you don't live in that district, you can't vote in that election (okay, you're not SUPPOSED to be able to vote. I'll leave Chicago out of it).

So, someone not living in the cities of Petersburg, Colonial Heights, Hopewell, and Prince George County plus parts of Chesterfield and Dinwiddie Counties (all in Virginia) is ineligible to vote in the elections for the 3rd Virginia Congressional district. Hence, they're local. Similarly, if you do not live in the Commonwealth of Virginia, you cannot vote for the Virginia Senate seat that is up for grabs next year.

If it was a national election, people in San Francisco, CA could vote whether or not Randy Forbes keeps the 3rd Congressional District seat. Or someone in Peoria, IL could help decide whether or not George Allen gets to keep his Senate seat. Since they can't (they're outside the district), these elections are local.

Who's clueless now jackass?


If the shoe fits ...

Even if it doesn't, I've got a shoe horn ...

*hands Davad70 the shoehorn*
Reply #47 Top
Thanks for the civics class, but I do understand how elections work. If you follow where all this came from, you will see that my original point was that across the board, people are leaning towards voting for democrats. Here's a sample question from one of the polls;

"To begin, suppose the elections for U.S. CONGRESS were being held TODAY. Would you vote for the Republican Party's candidate or the Democratic Party's candidate for Congress in your district?" If other/unsure: "As of TODAY, do you LEAN more toward the Republican or the Democrat?"
Reply #48 Top
Is there a point to all this other than rightwinger is true to his sobriquet?
Reply #49 Top
Thanks for the civics class, but I do understand how elections work. If you follow where all this came from, you will see that my original point was that across the board, people are leaning towards voting for democrats. Here's a sample question from one of the polls;


If you truly understand then "why" did you make this comment?

How exactly would you differentiate between a local and a national election? 33 Senate seats are up, and all Congressional seats are up. How exactly is that not "national"?


The Senatorial and Congressional elections coming up in '06 are local elections. They may be for Federal office, but the elections are local. Only voters in the LOCAL districts (whether that district is a few square miles or an entire state) can participate. If you don't live in that district, you can't vote in that election (okay, you're not SUPPOSED to be able to vote. I'll leave Chicago out of it).


So in truth, who now is the jackass?
Reply #50 Top
I was referring to the upcoming elections in 2006. There are a ton of polls there indicating that people would rather see Democrats controlling congress. Some polls it's not a huge margin, but some show a preference of Democrat by as much as 17%.


Thanks Davad for the link (something many don't provide around here)

But notice one thing, while the percentage ratings in these polls are showing Republicans historically losing 3-5%, the Democrats are only gaining 1%. Some even show losing.

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll.
"Do you think the country would be better off if the Republicans controlled Congress, or if the Democrats controlled Congress?"
11/11-13/05 Rep: 34% Dem: 46%
10/22-24/04 Rep: 41% Dem: 45%
(Just before last election)

NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll
"What is your preference for the outcome of the 2006 congressional elections: a Congress controlled by Republicans or a Congress controlled by Democrats?"
11/4-7/05 Rep: 37% Dem: 48%
5/12-16/05 Rep: 40% Dem: 47%


Democracy Corps Poll
"I know it is far ahead, but thinking about next year's elections, if the election for U.S. Congress were held today, would you be voting for the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate in your district where you live?"
11/2-6/05 Rep: 40% Dem: 48%
1/16-20/05 Rep: 43% Dem: 48%


CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll
"Thinking for a moment about the elections for Congress next year -- If the elections for Congress were being held today, which party's candidate would you vote for in your congressional district: the Democratic Party's candidate or the Republican Party's candidate?" If unsure: "As of today, do you lean more toward the Democratic Party's candidate or the Republican Party's candidate?" Options rotated
10/21-23/05 Rep: 43% Dem: 50%
8/28-30/05 Rep: 41% Dem: 53%


I am just pulling some examples of data reflecting historical data here, and all of it is within the margin of error.

But it does show that while people maybe getting turned off from the Republicans, they are not flocking to the Democrats. The only reason IMO that Bush won this last election is because the Democrats somehow dug up a guy worse then Bush (go figure when you nominate a guy who made his name being a one time war critic, in the middle of a war). As long as the Dems keep being the party of "NO way", "No ideas" while hating everything GOP/Bush, voters will continue to vote GOP. If only the Dems stopped trying to make the Republicans look more evil then them, people may vote for them.