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WinCustomize Subscription Totals Won't Make The Goal: What Next?

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WinCustomize Subscription Totals Won't Make The Goal: What Next?

With the WinCustomize Subscription Not Even At The Half Way Poin... What Now?

from WinCustomize Forums
We have talked about this extensively on other threads, but now with the moment of truth upon us the question is what will happen to WinCustomize?

If this site was owned by a person and that crash with the server happened, it would have been a lost.

In fact, the idea that this happened only shows how much work is going on behind the scenes of this site that has to be costly and probably more than Frogboy will admit.

After reading the Does Stardock 'need' WinCustomize? thread as well as other threads on the message board/forums, the question is now what is next.


I think the answer will be more extreme that what we been talking about. Will it be a totally subscriber only site period (this would avoid the multiple account thing because even if you do that you will only get so much and view so much)?

What happens to the Wincustomize User Pages? How will un-subscribers be able to view it or download from it?

Will there be whole sections of WinCustomize off limits to outsiders?



I think the immediate response will be no downloads unless your signed in (unless its wallpapers, CursorXP or something) Not sure about the rest. I am guessing with the need for new restrictions that there will be a total site redesign for subscribers.



Personally, I think it is a sad day for all of this come November 1st 2005. The other sites just don't compare. I visited one site of the alternates to WinCusto and my browser crashed because of the pop-up attempts. Can you believe that?

I don't think many people will like the subscriber idea and will think Stardock is leaching off of artists. People will leave probably from what I read of some of the comments. I find that funny since most of the comments of 'leeching of artists' came from people who started off here and got there notoriety due to the 'leeching' of hosting their stuff, keeping it save, and organizing a community around it.

I always said that WinCustomize is a symbiosis between the artist and Stardock. On can not live as well without the other.

But with the restrictions soon to come on its way, what will happen to WinCustomize? What is next?
40,281 views 136 replies
Reply #101 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I know I'm going to be flamed to pieces, but there are some things I'd like to say.

For starters, I'm one of these so called leechers. I have a shareware version of Windowblinds and I visit this site every so many months to check out the new stuff.

When I noticed the download limitations I was shocked, but after reading about the server failures, I can understand. I'm not stupid. I know someone else has to pay, whether it is me or not. And sides, I've gotten more than fair use out of the programs and the skins. I can't even stand to look at the normal windows interface anymore.

And honestly, I'm considering subscribing...or rather registering my version of Windowblinds. This isn't something I usually do; I'd rather put up with the hassle of limited software IF it gets me the results I want. But there are plenty of benefits to registering. Enough to convince someone as stubborn as me.

But...

There are some parts of this that just don't exactly sound fair to me. I'm not saying I'm right or that anyone has to agree. I just want to be heard is all.

First of all, I can see the point in registering Windowblinds. And from what I understand this gives me a full year of no hassle downloads. Not a bad deal considering the price. But what after this year is up? I'll start having to pay yearly subscriptions...

Fine. I do that with Norton Antivirus, which is also worth it. Now here's the point. What exactly is being offered for these subscriptions that wasn't formerly available? With Norton, you don't have to subscribe yearly and you can still get use out of your virus protection, even if you have to manually install updates. Atleast that is what I understand. I've never went through it because I've never not renewed. So in truth, I'm just paying for the convenience.

But what am I paying for here? Access to skins I used to have access to anyway? Skins I could get elsehwere for free? Even if I am paying for the convenience here too, it seems like a rip.

For starters no matter how many whistles and bells you attach, this is just another skin library filled with free contributions of other artists and skinners. You (collectively) make it sound like we owe this site for this service. Apparently others do it for free. Maybe they aren't as big, but this is the price of fame.

And yes, I can go elsewhere. So can most of the others in my boat which is apparently what you want. This is only going to increase the demand in Warez and other illegal methods though... And no, I'm not a hacker or anything of the sort. Just someone questioning the point of all this. In effect I'm asking to be convinced.

If all the leechers leave...as you say we consist of a huge part of this community and the bandwidth costs...then the hit totals on downloads will go down considerably. Maybe this is what you want, but I doubt it is what the artists/skinners who contribute here want. And if they end up being allowed free downloads based on the hits for their skins, then effectively the whole system falls apart.

Even if the artists/skinners don't care about being able to access other skins or have no problems paying for this access, I'm sure they do care about the number of hits their skins are getting. If few can access their skins, there will be fewer reviews, fewer downloads, a lower distrubtion, and a lack of incentive for these people to keep wasting days of their lives to create this content. This in turn means there will be less stuff for even the subscribed accounts to access, which means even more people will leave.

Of course, this may or may not happen and it certainly is an exaggerated model. But I think it proves my point. It's something the rest of you who are for alienating this part of the community should think about. Especially since it would appear the ones who are parading here because they are subscribers and the like aren't the ones who are contributing the goodies in the first place. Not to say I am either. Which in my opinion puts us in the same boat since flashing around all that money won't do any good if the site goes down because the cost doesn't warrant the number of hits.

Sorry...I guess that was uncalled for to a degree. You can say that I am part of the problem. You're probably right. Will getting rid of me solve it? Not really. Will trying to convince me to pay help it? Maybe. Will I leave if I don't get my way? No, I'll leave because the benefits of paying aren't worth it. Am I saying I shouldn't have to pay? No, just wanting something worth paying for. And paying only to have continued access to this library doesn't seem worth it.

Thanks for listening.
Reply #102 from WinCustomize Forums Top
People need to stop thinking about 'I’m paying for skins' and start thinking about 'I'm helping support the place where authors upload their work so I can download skins'
Let me give you an example from a skinner point of view. I as a skinner, spent $1,000 (per say) to purchase the graphic programs and skinning programs to create my skins, aside from this I spend weeks of my free time to create these skins that I freely share with you and the community members and all I ask in return is for people to help support the site that serves both artists and users to enjoy their hobbies.
Don’t you think this is a fair deal or is $19.00 a year (or 2 yrs if you are renewing) too much money for the trouble all these authors go thru?
I have access level that allows me to download all I want without shelling a cent but I’m on my second year of subscription simply because it’s for a good cause.
Yeah sure, people can go to other sites which offers less things with a lot more garbage, but that only proves that convenience is stronger than commitment no matter how uncomfortable it is
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #103 from WinCustomize Forums Top
And paying only to have continued access to this library doesn't seem worth it.



this is what you get for either subscribing or buying a stardock app..

Level 4: Current Stardock customer. These are users who have either purchased Object Desktop Network or some other Stardock product (Stardock is WinCustomize's sponser) within the last 2 years. These users get all the benefits of a registered user plus:

Unlimited File Downloads. Say good-bye to file limitations! No more annoying messages preventing you from getting your download to work.
Level 5: WinCustomize Subscriber. Users who are current WinCustomize Subscribers get all the benefits of level 3 & 4 users plus:

The [SkinBrowser]. A powerful yet easy to use program for navigating the site. This alone is worth the cost of becoming a subscriber, it truly changes the way you view skins, icons, themes, and wallpapers. Not only can it view them, it can apply them directly. And if you're missing a program, it can download the programs you need.
A WinCustomize Personal Website. These users are given exclusive access to tools designed to help in creating their own presence on the WinCustomize servers. This includes a (x.wincustomize.com) domain at WinCustomize. In addition, they can also write web blogs and upload skins & themes to their site to help promote their website.
Photo Album. As part of your personal page you will have access to your own personal photo album where you can upload pictures!
Premium Skin Suites. WinCustomize offers two premium suites. These suites will be able to completely transform your desktop and look totally cool.
Extra WinCustomize features. New features will be added to the site specifically for WinCustomize subscribers. Features will include journals, auto-notification of comments made to submissions you've made , notification to responses to messages you've made and more.
Other goodies. During the course of the year we'll come up with other things such designed specifically for subscribers. We have a few new software technologies including Skincast and more that will taking customization to a whole new level.
No Banner Ads. By becoming a WinCustomize subscriber, you help support our website in many ways. We recognize this by removing banners and other ads from the website that may hinder your surfing experience. We want all of our loyal patrons to have the most enjoyable surfing experience possible.
Reply #104 from WinCustomize Forums Top
A WinCustomize Personal Website.


Hmmmm...

Doesnt everyone have the ability to have one of those?
Reply #105 from WinCustomize Forums Top

 Citizen Kurisutaru ....to answer you it's simple enough to explain the subscription system to Norton. If you do not subscribe you do not get any updates.....your computer will be protected to the time/point when you ceased being an on-going customer.

If a newer virus comes along...well, tough luck...you'll possibly be infected and your system will be fubarred.

Maybe it's good to know that if you only cease being a Wincustomize.com site member/contributor all that will suffer will be your GUI's aesthetics.  

Either way, it's the price you pay for .....not paying.

And...

Logically, if something 'may or may not happen...and is an exaggerated model' it hardly proves any point at all other than a propensity for flawed reasoning....

Reply #106 from WinCustomize Forums Top


Even if the artists/skinners don't care about being able to access other skins or have no problems paying for this access, I'm sure they do care about the number of hits their skins are getting. If few can access their skins, there will be fewer reviews, fewer downloads, a lower distrubtion, and a lack of incentive for these people to keep wasting days of their lives to create this content


Given the skinners' comments I've read, most would happily trade hit quantity for greater site support by way of increased subscriptions. These skinners create skins for the love of it, and freely share the fruits of their labours here for all to enjoy, so to suggest they are wasting their time is none too appreciative or very complimentary. It also suggests that you, I and everyone else is wasting their time visiting WC to download these skins. Although you come here to download skins, it comes across that you derive little or no value/pleasure from it. That to me is a negative/defeatist attitude, and given that you're none too willing to subscribe, either, maybe you should go back to the default 'luna/classic' style and just forget about the whole thing. Just a suggestion

I like 'free' stuff as well and happily use freebies like Firefox and Opera, etc, but as Jafo reminds us, there's a cost to someone somewhere. In the case of WC, the greater costs go to Stardock....a business, not a charity, and like any other business, it cannot afford to be bankrupted by freeloaders over-taxing its resources. Put the boot on the other foot and see how well it fits.....your business and livlihood is being leeched to the point of non-existence.

I've seen people go to the greatest of extremes for a freebie....like using $20 worth of fuel to drive miles and miles for an item worth $15 in a local store. Sorry, but you strike me as one of those types....."but it didn't cost me anything, I already had the gas."
Reply #107 from WinCustomize Forums Top
This is pretty stupid. I paid for OD, why should I pay more to download skins? Skins are what the software is all about. I thought thats really what I paid for. I dont care about the software, I want the skins to make my computer look cool.

Yeah, I think it's fine to have people pay for some extra stuff like a website and the browser. But it shouldnt cost anything to download what the software is used for. That would be like paying everytime you ran a virus scan, not just for updates.

To be honest, I also think the people who work on this site are greatly exaggerating the situation here to get more people so subscribe. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems odd that at the same time they got less than half the number of subscriptions they wanted, they're talking about letting people only with those subscriptions access.
Reply #108 from WinCustomize Forums Top
People need to stop thinking about 'I’m paying for skins' and start thinking about 'I'm helping support the place where authors upload their work so I can download skins'
Reply #109 from WinCustomize Forums Top
But it shouldnt cost anything to download what the software is used for.

I have windvd, wmp, interactual,divx - does that mean movies are free? no.

the software is used to dress up your system. the skins here were created and uploaded for use by others. it didn't have to be. the skinners could have just as easily stuck to dressing up their own system and not shared.
windowblinds + skinstudio = all the free skins you can create. just an example.
Reply #110 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Citizen Adamness just to clarify....you do not pay each time you scan for viruses...once you have the proggy, just as you do not pay each time you have your GUI skinned...once you have the proggy....

But...

Just as you pay to have updates to your scanner software to improve its currency/worth so, too 'should' you expect to pay to have newer, additional skins to apply to your GUI.

Quite a good parallel, really...

Reply #111 from WinCustomize Forums Top
But it shouldnt cost anything to download what the software is used for.


its like having a cell phone......i bought one and i pay for it a month ok......but if you go to the internet throught your cell phone....they charge extra even though i didn't download any thing onto it yet......they even charge you for both.....downloads and internet access....

What im saying is.....if you have the amount to pay for your cell phone bill...then why don't you have enough money for a subscribtion? Besides it costs only 19.00 a year (or 2 for renewing)unlike your bill, you pay at least 29.99 or more a month.

THANK ABOUT IT!!!!!!
Reply #112 from WinCustomize Forums Top

This is pretty stupid. I paid for OD, why should I pay more to download skins? Skins are what the software is all about. I thought thats really what I paid for. I dont care about the software, I want the skins to make my computer look cool.


That's a whole load of 'double dutch'! If you don't care about the software, then you can manage without it. That being the case, and you uninstall it, you won't have to worry about contibuting something towards the bandwidth you'd have otherwise used to download the free skins.

Shoot...I thought I'd paid for an entertainment centre, but when it was delivered it was just a piece of furniture. Then I bought a Hi.fi, Tv and DVD player, thinking I had paid for what I wanted then. Strangely enough, I still had to buy CD's and DVD's to get full value from my original purchase. Durrrr Freddy!
Reply #113 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hello folks!!

I purchased Stardocks Object Desktop in November 2004. I have enjoyed the program. But without Wincustomize, Object Desktop would be pretty PLAIN JANE. You don't have a lot of choices in changing skins and designs with just that program. I believe that Stardock and Wincustomize shoud intregrate. Wincustomize makes Stardock. In the future part of the purchase price for OD should pay Wincustomize. Without Wincustomize there's no Stardock. I know times are tough. I will probably will have to wait to renew on my OD. But when I am able to do so I also planned to purchase a subcription to Wincustomize. I don't think that roughly .06 a day is that big a deal to keep a good thing going. I have never gotten a virus, spyware, adware, or anything else from this site. I'd hate to see what would happen to my pc if I went to one of those other sites. It is a small price to pay for enjoyment and SAFETY. So get a grip people!!! Nothing is for free!!!
Reply #114 from WinCustomize Forums Top
why is everyone arguing? People who want to pay for their stuff stay here on wincustomize, and people who want the things free can go to deviantART or skinartistry or other various skinning sites. Everyone is happy, right?
Reply #115 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I am new to skinning. I am an OD subscriber. I download at least one WB skin a day, and doing this is so that I can learn the techniques used by great skinners like Mike Bryant, Pixstudio, Skinplant and even the newer skinners (to my knowledge) like JJ adn studio28. If I did not have the ability to download these 4 to 5 star skins, what would I be learning? As it is, I don't know how to upload skins ( I have several Sysmetrix skins ported, but no knowledge of how to get them posted and available to the rest of the community). I am currently NOT a WC subscriber, but I was planning to soon. That does not negate the argument that limited access has its benefits to the WC community.
Reply #116 from WinCustomize Forums Top

WinCustomize doesn't make Stardock.  People can get skins at plenty of other sites besides WinCustomize.com.

For the money Stardock currently spends to subsidize WinCustomize it could pay for prime time television advertisements.  Or heck, it could pay a couple of skin authors full time to just make skins and themes and put the results on the actual Stardock website.

You don't need 3000 skins or 3000 wallpaper or whatever to have a good customization program.  The site exist to help promote a cool community of skinners, artists, developers.

Besides, the issue isn't with people who bought Object Desktop and download skins.  The issue is that we have 3 million plus unique visitors visiting the site.  Probably a good 500,000 of them visit the site several times per month. 

The solution is going to require some statistical analysis.  That is, figuring out who are visitors are in more detail.  The only people who can really be expected to pay for something are the ones currently using the site a lot but aren't contributing. 

You can't expect a one-time visitor to pay $20 just to download a wallpaper.  What we need to do, for starters, is focus on the people who visit every day and download skins and themes but don't ever upload skins or pay for software or buy a subscription.  THOSE people can be focused on.

The others, the ones who only visit the site once or twice a month or year can be targeted as well but not with subscription but via advertising.

If we could get our monthly subscription level to merely 500 per month on average and get the site to making $15,000 in advertising and try eliminate some of the bandwidth cost through either restrictions or fewer users then we could afford to bring in more people to help manage the site.

The problem the site currently faces is that it's run on such a shoe-string. A site like this hould have 3 dedicated, full-time people who do nothing but work on tihs site.  deviantART (according to spyed) has something like 15 people who do nothing but work on that website as their jobs. 

So the first step is to tweak things to get the site to be viable as-is.  Then the next step is to look at growth opportunities.

I don't think any of the mechanisms are likely to affect people who bought Object Desktop at all.  It may affect people who bought stand-alone programs a bit in the longer term (i.e. unlimited downloads only for content that corresponds for your program). But we'll see.

Reply #117 from WinCustomize Forums Top
scorpio-logic, go to the Sysmetrix gallery and you will under "gallery description" a button to "summit a skin".

Please remember with a port to have permissions from the original author.
Reply #118 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It may affect people who bought stand-alone programs a bit in the longer term (i.e. unlimited downloads only for content that corresponds for your program).



Brad, this is one of the better ideas I have heard.
Reply #119 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Thanks Keila, sometimes the smart ones don't see the simple things in front of them. I have sent email to pixstudio asking for permission, but have yet to recieve anything in reply. I guess until then, a screenshot would be the only thing I have available to share.
Reply #120 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It may affect people who bought stand-alone programs a bit in the longer term (i.e. unlimited downloads only for content that corresponds for your program



I like that too. If you bought Windowblinds then you have access to all WindowBlinds in the gallery, but limited downloads of DX and so forth.

For the money Stardock currently spends to subsidize WinCustomize it could pay for prime time television advertisements. Or heck, it could pay a couple of skin authors full time to just make skins and themes and put the results on the actual Stardock website.


I agree that Stardock spends way too much money on WinCustomize... WAY TOO MUCH... but when it comes to Object Desktop and having content to download for it it is very important. Saying 'just go to other sites' won't cut it for the end user. The convenence of going to one site far outwieghts going to 5 different ones. Plus this site has MANY members who have played around with OD who can give tips and so forth. Having a social community around your product and having social networking help build your CRM is the reason why Google, Yahoo, MSN, Nes Corp, PeopleSoft, Oracle, Friendster, MySpace (bought by News Corp) and so on spend billions of dollars to create. Stardock saying it doesn't need WinCustomize is like ignoring the begigest trend in business history. Will Stardock survice? Yeah. Will it be a muli-million dollar company? Yeah probably. Will it be worth as much without WinCustomize? No, it would be worth far less without WinCustomize.

I don't have data supporting it, but I will bet my left butt cheak that people re-subscribe to OD because of WinCustomize. Saying that you don't need 1000 of skins for a program would be a wrong move considering that different people have different tastes.

Look at DesktopX? Why make a client only DX? because people do not have the time/energy/will-power to make skins.

Finally, lets really take a look at these 'other' skin sites.
  • Deviant Art... Jark... need I say more?
  • Customize.org has more pop-ups than a teenager.
  • 2 other mentioned skins sites crashed my browser... I don't want to neam names... YET.
  • Small sites that probably can't take the traffic or database weight or owner totally loses interest.



    Stardock doesn't need WinCustomize, but it sure would be less actractive without it. Somewhere in the strategy of the new WinCustomize should be how to use it as a better marketing tool. I know it won't be easy, but I truely get upset sometimes when I read how WinCustomize isn't earning much when I know it can if it had a better layout, site content related to how the user interacts, and a better advertsing layout and options. Smiley Central should NOT be advertised on WinCustomize, Alienware should.
    • Reply #121 from WinCustomize Forums Top
    By the way, I have a small skin site coming up (mainly for skin development), but quess what? I am trying to decide right now wiether I should host files for download or not or even have a gallery because of bandwidth costs.

    Saying 'there are plenty of skin sites' just doesn't cut it. They do not have to host any of the files for your programs and all you need it a 'situation' and all of a sudden the skins that are for your programs do not exist on their site anymore.



    It is my personal opinion that OD subscribers should have full access to the site. They should see ads but no were near as many as a regular sign-in member or a casual browser would. OD subscribers don't get the browser, the special site skins, the skinnable site, or other featured a winCustomize subscriber would get, but they SHOULD get full access to all libraries and a download limit of at least 1GB.


    If possible there should be a new position for this site and that position is marketing manager. This person will take care of what get advertised on the site, how things are marketed to the 4 different users - casual browser, signed in user, OD subscriber and WinCustomize Subsriber - and so on.

    Once the site is set up, has the proper marketing channels, content for subscribers, and tools for end users I think there will be no reason for WinCustomize should not be profitable... that's right, profitable as in making money.

    The subscribions have to be marketed well, and I don't mean pointing out to a sign-in user every 2 seconds that they can do more if they had a subscription. They should know that already.
    Reply #122 from WinCustomize Forums Top
    Interesting discussion I must say. I fully understand the problem WinCustomize is facing, but to those who say, it is only $20, I would say, sums add up. I visit a number of websites which want my donations, use all kinds of programs which want or (in the case of shareware) require my donations, am part of communities which require money to continue. So, for me you are not talking about $20, but more something like $200. It all adds up. And if you only download a few skins a year, they are becoming expensive ones. Unfortunately for Stardock, the money is in the masses like me who are satisfied with only a few skins, but won't spend hours and hours on the net chasing all kinds of obscure sites looking for them. I already have a ODNT subscription, but if I was evaluating Windowsblinds and Stardock would make it impossible for me to really try it out with the skin I love, they loose a sale. It is the combination of Windowblinds with the available skins which makes it worthwhile. Mind you, I'm really talking about evalutations here, i.e. reasonable restrictions should be put in place. Just as the shareware version itself has some restrictions.

    And for those who like checking the personal details of the posters here. Yes, I do have a wincustomize subscription. But with a total download of less then 30MB in 4 years I sometimes wonder why
    Reply #123 from WinCustomize Forums Top

    but to those who say, it is only $20, I would say, sums add up. I visit a number of websites which want my donations, use all kinds of programs which want or (in the case of shareware) require my donations, am part of communities which require money to continue. So, for me you are not talking about $20, but more something like $200. It all adds up.

    You could also anguish over the country's GDP and International dept to the tune of countless Billions...and say "it ain't just 20 bucks....it's countless-billions-and-20 bucks".... but it's irrelevant to include extraneous charges that have no bearing on pricing and policy on one individual skinning site.

    "Ooh...I see Pizzas went up 50 cents....must revise skin-site costings to compensate."

    You choose to pay for the things that are of value.

    Some pay ONLY to this site.....others pay to all sorts.....that's their choice, not ours, to define FOR them.

    I go without things....all the time....just so I can justify the 'luxury' of ADSL at 90 AUD a month.....otherwise I ain't 'here' at all....

    My choice...

    Reply #124 from WinCustomize Forums Top
    the 'luxury' of ADSL at 90 AUD a month


    That much? Wow!
    Reply #125 from WinCustomize Forums Top
    That much? Wow!


    Yep ...I'm on the same plan as Jafo, with the same provider.

    I also 'do without' on occasions, so I can support this site. One less beer a day for a couple of weeks, and there's my subscription money.

    It's just simple prioritising really. I want to be here, I want to support ...so I do without things to enable it.

    [just renewed both my sub here, and ODNT ...no regrets]