DANGER! Throwing Rocks In Glass Houses

Words written with the finger of God

from JoeUser Forums
In the gospel of John 8:1-11 the religious leaders brought a woman who had been taken in adultery. The question the Lord as to what should be done…

“Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?”

Most of us are familiar with this passage from God’s Word, even those who do not adhere to the Lords teaching. In this portion of God’s Word they find some consolation that Christ told the religious leaders….

“he who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her”

I have found this to be the most quoted portion of God’s Word by unbelievers, but must add that it is used most frequently under false pretences.

We are told in the 6th and 8th verse that Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground. What do you think he wrote, and why?

preacherman
religion
19,247 views 92 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have heard it speculated that He wrote the sins of the men who were accusing her. We don't know. No matter what it was, they were taken aback enough that in the end there was no one left standing there to accuse her.

Which is the point. The real situation was that these men had brought a woman before Jesus to stone for no other reason than to trap him into either thwarting Hebrew law or Roman law.

He did neither. She wasn't spared because Jesus deemed her innocent, or deemed that capital punishment was wrong. She was spared because in shame or fear the men left, and without two accusers there was no one left to cause her to be punished.

Jesus asked her who accused her, and she looked around and saw no one. Not privy to her sin, Jesus had no part in the proceedings, so He couldn't accuse either. His advice was to go and sin no more.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I love you. Jesus came to to heal the broken hearted and set at liberty them that are bruised. He is meek and lowly of heart, and will not quench a smouldering flax or bend a bruised reed. I used to see God through my sin sick eyes, as a Ruler with little mercy, until I encountered Jesus and to find Him full of forgiveness and willing to give a guy more than a second chance. 70x7...add infinitum...as deep as the deepest sea, as broad as the unknoweable boundaries of space, so huge is Jesus' forgiveness and love.....Yes, I believe he wrote 'I love you' ~ ritlaaaisr.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Baker is correct anything that we can imagine will be speculation at best, for we have no clear definition as to what the finger of God wrote in the sand that day.

I believe He wrote Deuteronomy 22:22. Yes, I believe He quoted scripture. I bet you're saying, “you are only saying that because you are a preacher-man”
Deut: 22:22
“If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall BOTH of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.”

Talking about reason for speculation, who was the man, why was he not brought with the woman. Maybe he was one of the religious leaders, or one of the top-level city officials. There is no doubt they knew who he was… taken in the very act.

We don’t have to speculate that there is not a lot of difference today; there is many that are adding to and taking away from God’s Word to satisfy the desires of the flesh.

One thing we do not have to speculate about is this abundant mercy…..
Oh how sweet the river of mercy when one is standing in the midst of a drought of judgment… nice aeryck. Jesus does love us, no matter what we have done.

Thanks for commenting whip.

preacherman
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
We are told in the 6th and 8th verse that Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground. What do you think he wrote, and why?

When I taught this lesson to the teen-age sunday school, we speculated that Jesus wrote the names of the women the accusers had commited adultery with...to show them that they were no better than the women the accused.

It's all sepculation, but it makes for a nice story.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oh, but I do speculate on that, preacherman, because honestly, I don't see it.


You can't see it whip, until you see His righteousness. Once you get a glimps of His righteousness, you get a clearer understanding of our sin.

It is only by God's mercy that we are not consumed.

It is not in man's authority to question God's reasons. For His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. He does not have to justify His actions to His creation.. Hath the power of the potter over the clay? I would say so. Nevertheless not our will but thine be done.

The idea that Satan himself causes all the world's misery is just a cop out, since "satan" is himself a creation of God.


Satan does not need you to defend him and his modus operandi... he is already judged, it's just M.O.T. (matter of time)

preacherman
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thanks for your comment dharmagrl.... hence the mercy and forgiveness of God.

preacherman
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have to agree with Whip on this one. More cruelty has been doled out over the years in the name of god than stalin and hitler combined. The number of people killed during the inquisitions and the crusades alone prolly surpass the estimated 20 + million killed by Adolf and Uncle Joe.

God is the ultimate justification for death. You dont believe in my god or my church? That makes you an infidel by default. So you gotta go.

I think Jesus would be horrified if he came back and saw the cruelties and atrocities performed in his name.

He probably wrote "father, protect me from my followers"
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
God is the ultimate justification for death.


So you blame the ignorance and spiritual blindness of man and his actions on God? Do you think that is a little shallow?

I think Jesus would be horrified if he came back and saw the cruelties and atrocities performed in his name.


There is some validity to your statement, but I can assure you His heart would still be broken for so many that have rejected salvation in His name. You do realize He cares for your soul?

preacherman
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Whip, ' Jesus was here ' ..?... I thought about this one day when I was taking a walk with my dog Cassie and my son Daniel who was 11 at the time. The sandy path is an excellent place to leave one's signature, for Cassie it was as much urine as her bladder would allow, for me it was a cross out of twigs, which was latter mangled to pieces by my neighbours angry son on his motorcycle. He certainly left his signature, and a few day later taking the same walk, I was thinking about what one could write on the sand for another to read if it were the last thing one wrote, and then in the shadow I saw it. ' Jesus loves you ' ~ Daniel had backed up the path that day and with a stick in the dark earth had left his signature. I thought it was sure profundity. Hava Hava Gush Gush...n'all.......It is strange but if you ever consider how those three words sound coming from the mouths of different people you have known through-out your life, and then think about God saying those three words to you, that is extremely ...
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
"have to agree with Whip on this one. More cruelty has been doled out over the years in the name of god than stalin and hitler combined. The number of people killed during the inquisitions and the crusades alone prolly surpass the estimated 20 + million killed by Adolf and Uncle Joe."


Wanna add Mao into that too? Stalin killed way more than 20 million on his own. Hitler didn't just kill Jews, the war in europe killed millions more. Mao is thought to have purged 50+ million people. How about Edi Amin? Rwanda? Wanna start adding up the all the secular purges throughout history?

You're smart enought to know what sort of populations these nations had during the crusades, the inquisition, etc. I think you are making a facetious arguement when you blame Christianity for hundreds of millions of deaths.

One could also ask how many more deaths might have been without the stabilizing effects of religion.

You know what I think is hypocritical? The fact that anti-Christian types always talk of heaven like they would NEVER want to live in such a sickly sweet and carefree place, and then when they gripe about God they demand to know why we don't live in heaven to begin with...


"Ebola virus is caused by the ignorance and spiritual blindness of man? How 'bout cancer? Random car accidents? Earthquakes and Tsunami's and plagues?"


I never imagined you to make such a wussy arguement, Whip. You think we should live forever? You somehow can see the benefit of pain and suffering in terms of sex, but you can't see how suffering and hardship is part of life?

Come on. The Emporer's silly arguments are having too much impact I think.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
God is the ultimate justification for death. You dont believe in my god or my church? That makes you an infidel by default. So you gotta go.


So you blame the ignorance and spiritual blindness of man and his actions on God?


I may have misunderstood thatoneguyinslc, by I thought his quote was in reference to what profess believers have done in the name of God,
The number of people killed during the inquisitions and the crusades


My point was that just because someone says they do something in the name of God does not make it God's fault.

What has a unborn child done to deserve being ripped apart limb from limb before ever being freed from the womb?


This is nothing more than the fruit of sin _whip. You see a man, society reaps what they sow. Rape, murder, abortion, all of this is the sad truth that sin is running rampant in our society and the government is not doing a good job of keeping it in check so it waxes worse.


Ebola virus is caused by the ignorance and spiritual blindness of man? How 'bout cancer? Random car accidents? Earthquakes and Tsunami's and plagues?


The Lord is going to have his way in the whirlwind and the storm. Concerning the lesson or judgement, who are we to question God. You and I will never be anymore than a piece of clay on the potters wheel. I think that is what you problem is, you know in the day that ye eat therof ye shall be like God knowing good from evil. _whip you are not satisfied being a piece of clay.

The Emporer's silly arguments are having too much impact I think.

The same word, the same spirit, the same lie.


You know what I think is hypocritical? The fact that anti-Christian types always talk of heaven like they would NEVER want to live in such a sickly sweet and carefree place, and then when they gripe about God they demand to know why we don't live in heaven to begin with...


So very true... we see things not as they are but as we are. When we look at the circumstances of life through the eyes of selfishness.. we generally tend to disagree with what God has done.

preacherman

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
If God were to be "teaching us lessons" in this fashion, then how can He be a loving God without equally being a cruel and capricious God? [ your quote little_whip]

Human nature is what is really at stake here, and as far as we can see, History has a track record that is more equal to Paul's reference in Romans 3:10-18.... Did we not help the Oscars shower trophies on Silence of the Lambs, and so many brutal movies, did we help the vote that has seen 35 000 000 children killed in America over the last 25 years, some as late as full term, with their little brains sucked out and their heads left in the birth canal.

The fact that Jesus placed himself lower than the woman he was called upon to judge and showing the brave shoulders that were eventually to carry all of mankind's sin on the cross. I can only see the Mercy of GOD, James said,'For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.'
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oh, little_whip,
You illiminated 'free choice'. Oh, the joys of being a moral relativist. Sort of like a philosophical kameleon. One minute you are all over there the next over there, I hear a little bell. Ding, ding, ding.....third time out. Human nature in whichever cabinet it is displayed amounts to the same, it is evil. We are at the Mercy of God, and thank God that there is mercy to be found at the cross.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've heard your perspective before L_W, and I respect your beliefs. I think you skirted my point though.

Let's remove everything that people blame God for, all at once. No sin, no violence, no suffering, no needs, perfect health, everything, forever. Do you think a child would develop in any reasonable human way? What kind of kids do we get when we raise them reasonably close to those circumstances? Little, brain dead monsters more often than not.

If I could put my child in a little, safe padded room and keep her like a doll in perfect health, I wouldn't. If I could stand over her day and night until she's 80 and make sure she never faces danger or hardship, I wouldn't.

Doest that mean I delight at her suffering? Does that make me party to it? Heck, I could move to Alaska, home school, and she'd never see any of the parts of the world that I think are vile.

Why don't I? By leaving her here am I party to the vileness? How then is God party to it because he won't just stick us in a safe little room?

**

Did you see Constantine? I'm sure aeryk and preacherman would hate it on site, but there were some neat points therein. There's one spot where the angel is talking to Constantine who claims to "Believe". The angel says, "You don't believe, you KNOW."

There's a big difference. There'd be no benefit in growing up in a world that required no struggle or faith. We see that for our kids, and I think God sees the same thing for us.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
"He is the cause of it because He created and controls it."


I think there is the root of our disagreement. I don't believe God controls any of it, because that would violate free will. If I'm not mistaken you see the wrongs of the world as part of the overall design. I see them as the by-product of free will and simple mortality.

"God must want things the way they are, or He would change them."


I know for a fact that there are things going on in your neighborhood that you hate. If you were Ming the Merciless for a day, would you force people to live according to your view of the world, even if you knew it would make it a better place?

I don't think you would. You appreciate personal freedom too much. You see that it creates havoc, but you see the alternative as something worse. Does that make you culpable for the wrongs these people you grant freedom commit?

We tolerate a lot of perceived wrongs in our society in the name of freedom. If you are sensible enough to keep your nose out of other people's free will, you don't think God would be?

Just because He doesn't intervene in our foolishness doesn't mean He agrees with it.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
"From the Christian perspective, it was Satan, not God, who bestowed this "gift" upon man, when Eve was decieved in the garden of eden."


Nah, nah, you know that she had to choose to bite the fruit to begin with. Without free will she couldn't have. Do you really think she was decieved? I don't.

"But I also wouldnt put them in a room full of toys, candy, and other desirable things that gave them pleasure, and tell them..."now now, kiddies, don't touch any of this, or I will punish you for all eternity."


It isn't what we can and can't play with, it is HOW we play with it. There are plenty of totally secular reasons that promiscuity and the rest are bad, and there are plenty of secular folks who advise the same things.

There's really nothing that we are specifically banned from, it is a matter of context. Sure, we can't commit adultery, but human history is chock full 'o examples how it goes terribly, terribly wrong. Same with any 'sin'. The punishment is built-in. God doesn't need to strike you down, the reason NOT to do it is punishment.

"Viewed in this light, free will is a curse, not a gift."


Free will is no different than a gun, or alcohol, or basic human rights. Some people abuse them. The idea that free will is a curse sounds like authoritarians who claim that rights only lead to crime and anarchy. They do, but not "only", and the world is much better with them than without.

You can say you'd lord over your neighbors, but I don't think you would. You most certainly wouldn't applaud them lording over you, any more than you'd applaud God for forcefully imposing every commandment. There just wouldn't be any merit to rules at all if there was no other choice.

The 'eternal torment' thing is seriously subjective, and tnot something I wanna get started with A&P. I believe in Hell of sorts, but most certainly not the same idea that they do.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I blame GOD, (the one and only) for the misery and eventual decay and death of us all, not any particular religion or its murderously zealous adherents.


Minor correction _whip in your doctrine..... SIN "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

If that's not the epitome of cruelty, then I don't know what is.


Not cruelty _whip.... helplessness and dependance on a sovergin God.

Oh, little_whip,You illiminated 'free choice'. Oh, the joys of being a moral relativist. Sort of like a philosophical kameleon. One minute you are all over there the next over there, I hear a little bell. Ding, ding, ding.....third time out. Human nature in whichever cabinet it is displayed amounts to the same, it is evil. We are at the Mercy of God, and thank God that there is mercy to be found at the cross.


Hey aeryck, you're getting better using your own discussion. I am proud of you!

Do you really think she was decieved? I don't.


The scriptures says she was deceived. Sorry _whip I have to use the scripture.



"But I also wouldnt put them in a room full of toys, candy, and other desirable things that gave them pleasure, and tell them..."now now, kiddies, don't touch any of this, or I will punish you for all eternity."


I really do think you have missed the whole purpose. god created man with the free will to obey or disobey God. the fact that Adam & Eve disobeyed is a revelation that man is born in sin, which I think you (_whip) enjoy because you can inturn blame God.

I am, however, enjoying this conversation, and the fact that you alone seem to be able to discuss these things in first person, as YOU see them, rather than endlessly quoting scripture that I find dubious at best, and ludicrous at worst.


You know today is Sunday and you know what this preacher does on Sunday's. Sorry I have not been participating in the discussion, but allow me to close this thread with this thought. If have have misunderstood what I am about to expound then I will be the first to apolgize, but we will let the readers decide for themselves.

little_whip the only time you give any credence to a sovergin God that created this universe it is always flavored with blame. You wnat to blame Him for any and everything that you think is not right. On the other side, you seem to find more tolerance for the arch enemy of God, the prince and god of this world, that old serpent, the devil....satan. It seems to me that if you had to choose to live with one or the other, it would be the other, correct.

To you point

This sounds remarkably like the Christian description of Heaven, and if its truly like that, I can not imagine a more boring place to be.



At the rate you are headed my dear you will be with the other. Just remember eternity is a long time.

I hope everyone is proud of me..... I did not quote one verse of scripture! But if anyone wants me to give the scriptural support for the positions I have stated, rest assured I have it ready.

preacherman
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
"3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."


Maybe it is nitpicky on my part, but I don't see her being decieved. She admitted that God told them not to eat of the tree, and she did it anyway. It wasn't as if the Satan said "Oh, God told me He changed his mind and to go ahead, it's okay." Her sin was disobedience, and she knew she was disobeying when she did it.

We aren't bound to obedience because we are afraid of the punishment, and evidently the fear of death was the only thing keeping her from disobeying.

Instead of deception, it appears that Eve was following God's commandment only out of self-interest. Granted, it's a matter of perspective.

"I hope everyone is proud of me..... I did not quote one verse of scripture! But if anyone wants me to give the scriptural support for the positions I have stated, rest assured I have it ready.


I would hate to think I helped influence you to stop quoting when you felt it important to. By all means quote if you like, but the reason I come to your blog is to hear what YOU have to say, even if it is about something that has already been said in scripture.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
would hate to think I helped influence you to stop quoting when you felt it important to. By all means quote if you like, but the reason I come to your blog is to hear what YOU have to say, even if it is about something that has already been said in scripture.


I do appreciate you dropping in baker. It is just hard for me to discuss spiritual stuff and not use His Word.

I would hate to think I helped influence you to stop quoting when you felt it important to. By all means quote if you like, but the reason I come to your blog is to hear what YOU have to say, even if it is about something that has already been said in scripture.


I believe I will take the liberty then to use God's Word, for It is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path as we traverse this sod.

1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being decieved was in the transgression.

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear lest by any means as the sepent beguiled (satan's deception) Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Satan is wiley in his temptations and the child of God that lacks spiritual direction from God's Word is open to his deception.

I see them as one and the same, and embrace both


bakestreet, my case in point... satan desires to be like the Most High and is looking for any of creation that will believe such.. massive deception, eh?

preacherman
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Maybe Jesus wrote, ' Who cares about a few puny rocks, ......I am the CORNERSTONE.'

James said,'For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.'

I agree, with you preach, satan definitely tempted/beguiled/deceieved Eve, and she obeyed his words, which were not the word's that God has commanded adam, she bought into satan's lie. This lie is the foundation of all copycat-kingdoms......you are everything you wanted to be already, just as long as you don't buy into the Christian lie of that seed that is going to come and crush the head of the serpent...etc.....just keep that out of your mind.

The point is that Jesus is the rock of offence, and whoever is offended by him, will find themselves crushed along with satan on the judgement day. However, if one acknowledges the CORNERSTONE, and bows before Him now, then one will be granted safe passage to eternal life, and not be damned to Gehenna.

Taking out the parts of the bible, that refer to God as being Holy, because you prefer to carry on living in sin, is what satan did. You merely prove your ownership by following this way. In other words you are creating an excuse for a god, one of your own making,that fits in with your own lifestyle, changing him whenever you are confronted with your sin, rather than submitting to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

It is interesting to note that if you read on in the Scripture where the text is derived, you will eventually find that Jesus, informs the Pharisees, that they are children of their father the Devil. Whenever we seek to make God's Word say what it does not, simply because we will not confess and forsake our sin, we will find ourselves coming against Jesus of Nazareth. He is the Chief Cornerstone, so what are a few rocks?
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
mercy rejoiceth against judgment.'


Can we say amen to that? AMEN

Taking out the parts of the bible, that refer to God as being Holy, because you prefer to carry on living in sin, is what satan did. You merely prove your ownership by following this way.


This is what I was refering to aeryck in your article "what seperates us". I agree whole heartedly with your definition of the church (the Body of Christ), what I was referenceing when I said the church, was the organization, not the organism, as our friend and brother C. Larkin has described.

Do you think that the church, (the organization) has been so careful not to throw rocks that they have comprimised the true teaching of God's word for a gospel that brings Christ without acknowledging ones sin and a word that promotes prosperity instead of holiness?

In other words you are creating an excuse for a god, one of your own making,that fits in with your own lifestyle, changing him whenever you are confronted with your sin, rather than submitting to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.


I see so much of this truth, not only in the world but even in the church. Please allow me to qualify, some churches.


It is interesting to note that if you read on in the Scripture where the text is derived, you will eventually find that Jesus, informs the Pharisees, that they are children of their father the Devil. Whenever we seek to make God's Word say what it does not, simply because we will not confess and forsake our sin, we will find ourselves coming against Jesus of Nazareth. He is the Chief Cornerstone, so what are a few rocks?


I can not imagine anyone arguing with this, at least those who name the name of Christ. preach
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Whenever we seek to make God's Word say what it does not, simply because we will not confess and forsake our sin, we will find ourselves coming against Jesus of Nazareth.


More condemnation from "war is wrong" aeryk, who condemns God's own acts in favor of his own philosophy. God made war, aeryk says that war is wrong, so God must be wrong to aeryk.

Before you start lugging stones at folks for "making God's Word say what it does not", you might wanna see to your own eye. If you want to discard the old testament in favor of your own hippie silliness, feel free, but don't condemn others for making what THEY want out of it...
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Actually Preacherman, you were right to assume that i was talking about people commiting atrocities in the big guy's name. Not that he was smiting millions from the heavens.

I used to have a t-shirt that summed up my feelings. It said....

"Jesus, protect me from your followers"

Also, Baker? All kinds of atrocities have been commited in a lot of different deities names over human history. Were talking about christianity here. Not dictators like Mao, or other religious groups.

Hitler and Stalin were just numeric examples.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
"All kinds of atrocities have been commited in a lot of different deities names over human history. Were talking about christianity here."


No doubt, thus my pointing out your bias and hypocrisy for condemning Christianity for what is simply a HUMAN propensity.

Humans have twisted every possible philosophy into an excuse to commit genocide. You and others around here, though, seem to have a need to blame Christianity for any wrong committed by Christians.

I'd like to see you go onto someone's pro-Communism blog and offer an unsolicited whine that Communism is somehow to blame for the hundred million or so that it's followers have purged. It wasn't Stalin's fault, blame communism.

If I said that, you'd immediately point out that there have been oodles of work-a-day Communists that have never committed genocide. Is it a blind spot in terms of Christianity for you, or just hateful bias?